Catholics and Muslims

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Ok, I’ve removed- snip- all of the hadiths from the other poster.

Kouyate is not a Koranist only - Sola Quran -
Nope I am not a Quranist as this would be ludicrous and would not make sene.

As to your comments regarding the true Islam, I would be lying if I told you I knew the ‘true’ Islam and that all other interpretations were wrong. Instead I simply try and follow Allah’s command and seek His mercy where I fail to do so.
 
Nope I am not a Quranist as this would be ludicrous and would not make sene.

As to your comments regarding the true Islam, I would be lying if I told you I knew the ‘true’ Islam and that all other interpretations were wrong. Instead I simply try and follow Allah’s command and seek His mercy where I fail to do so.
If you don’t know true islam…then how can you follow it? How can you know what Allah wants without learning it from the koran? Many examples of what the koran (Allah) teaches have been provided. There are diametrically opposed to the love that Christ taught.
 
I think my son is trying not to think about it. He is blinded by the love and respect that he has for her.

If someone was to tell me this would happen several years ago, I would have laughed. It’s just so unexpected. I have an overwheming sadness and I fear for his soul.
 
If you don’t know true islam…then how can you follow it? How can you know what Allah wants without learning it from the koran? Many examples of what the koran (Allah) teaches have been provided. There are diametrically opposed to the love that Christ taught.
My point is that I cannot personally claim some special reason to assume that my form of Islamic practice is in any way better than that of others. We are human and Allah knows this. He knows we are liable to make mistakes, regardless of how strong our iman (faith) is, because we are human.
Allah is loving in that He provides this world we live in, food and other sustenace for us as well as rewarding even the smallest good deeds with a reward often greater than the deed itself. He has also not abandoned us even where we have rebelled against Him and deserve punishment of Hellfire and has shown us how we can serve Him and be in His eternal presence in Jannah as well as how we can lead good lives in this probationary life. He is Al Ghaffur and Al Ghaffar- the one who forgives and forgives time after time.
 
Catholics and Muslims. Different beliefs, different religions. Whatever religion you believe in doesn’t really matter. We all have one God and one Savior Jesus Christ. We all are children of God and we’re all the same in God’s eyes. Respect one another.
 
My point is that I cannot personally claim some special reason to assume that my form of Islamic practice is in any way better than that of others. We are human and Allah knows this. He knows we are liable to make mistakes, regardless of how strong our iman (faith) is, because we are human.
Allah is loving in that He provides this world we live in, food and other sustenace for us as well as rewarding even the smallest good deeds with a reward often greater than the deed itself. He has also not abandoned us even where we have rebelled against Him and deserve punishment of Hellfire and has shown us how we can serve Him and be in His eternal presence in Jannah as well as how we can lead good lives in this probationary life. He is Al Ghaffur and Al Ghaffar- the one who forgives and forgives time after time.
BUT…after reading the koran it is filled with violence and hatred toward those that are not muslim. You mentioned the peace and love taught in the koran. Verses from the koran and sayings from the hadiths were posted and you’ve decided to not reply.

BTW…as Jakasaki asked…have you read the Gospels? They are far different than the koran. That’s where love is.
 
Catholics and Muslims. Different beliefs, different religions. Whatever religion you believe in doesn’t really matter. We all have one God and one Savior Jesus Christ. We all are children of God and we’re all the same in God’s eyes. Respect one another.
God loves us all…but not all end up in heaven.
 
He said he only saw peace and beauty in the Quaran, I proved him wrong and he refuses to respond to me.

This my friends, is a great example of somebody who is in denial and afraid of the truth.

Kouyate42, do not fear the truth. Because it will lead you to greater things. Even possibly becoming a christian in the future. On a side note, I did not post every bad verse. If i did, this thread will be nonstop filled. You said you read the Quaran yet you ignore all those verses containing hate and slaughter?

Why do you want to follow something which persecutes others in this way?

I have never heard of a Christian terrorist because there are no verses in the bible telling us to kill the ‘non believers’, but there are plenty of them in the quaran.

Can you blame Osama bin laden for wanting to kill non-muslims? Beacuse he is following the Quaran. He is doing what he is told to do.
 
He said he only saw peace and beauty in the Quaran, I proved him wrong and he refuses to respond to me.

This my friends, is a great example of somebody who is in denial and afraid of the truth.
Actually I went to bed so I could be up for fajr prayers at 5am. You know, the whole praying 5 times a day thing? I get up at dawn to pray to God.
Kouyate42, do not fear the truth. Because it will lead you to greater things. Even possibly becoming a christian in the future.
Code:
 I was a Christian and I can say with a decent amount of certainty that I will not return to any church. I have too many doubts about the Christian faith.
On a side note, I did not post every bad verse. If i did, this thread will be nonstop filled. You said you read the Quaran yet you ignore all those verses containing hate and slaughter?
Why do you want to follow something which persecutes others in this way?
You seem to ignore the positive elements of the Qur’an, including Surah Al-Kafiruun:

In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful
  1. Say: "0 you disbelievers!
  2. I worship not that which you worship.
  3. Nor will you worship that which I worship.
  4. And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping.
  5. Nor will you worship that which I worship.
  6. To you be your religion, and to me my religion.
I have never heard of a Christian terrorist because there are no verses in the bible telling us to kill the ‘non believers’, but there are plenty of them in the quaran.
Can you blame Osama bin laden for wanting to kill non-muslims? Beacuse he is following the Quaran. He is doing what he is told to do.
Context is everything. I could cite a thousand examples of the Bible’s wholesale slaughter of innocent women, children and men. And no, you can’t say 'that’s the Old Testament because that was the very Scripture Jesus Himself was supposed to fufill, and indeed believed in.

And Islam has strict rules on warfare and fighting. One of these conditions is that it must be done in defence of Islaam only, and not for selfish means. The Qur’an also strictly forbids any combatant from killing or even engaging anyone who isn’t a trained soldier (i.e. someone who actually WANTS to fight), including women, the elderly and children.

Also, what Osama Bin Laden did killed Muslims as well as non-Muslims.
BUT…after reading the koran it is filled with violence and hatred toward those that are not muslim. You mentioned the peace and love taught in the koran. Verses from the koran and sayings from the hadiths were posted and you’ve decided to not reply.
I have none of my books of tafsir, notes or even a Qur’an to hand, and so I cannot comment on individual hadith without further research, which given I’m currently 100 or so miles away from home, is going to be difficult. When I return home, I will be sure to respond.

Insha’Allah one day I will have memorized the Qur’an.
BTW…as Jakasaki asked…have you read the Gospels? They are far different than the koran. That’s where love is.
Given I’m a trained Classicist who can read both Hebrew and Greek, I have read the entire Bible cover to cover in the original languages and in translation. The more I read, the more it seems to confirm my rejection of it.
 
Greetings and peace be with you Kouyate;
Actually I went to bed so I could be up for fajr prayers at 5am. You know, the whole praying 5 times a day thing? I get up at dawn to pray to God.
I admire the way Muslims seem to take praying, fasting, and modesty far more reverently than we do.

In the spirit of praying to One God

Eric
 
Given I’m a trained Classicist who can read both Hebrew and Greek, I have read the entire Bible cover to cover in the original languages and in translation. The more I read, the more it seems to confirm my rejection of it.
Wait, what? You’re 23, young master. Unless you were brought up Jewish and truly studied, there’s no way you understand both Hebrew and Greek to the necessary levels to make such a scholarly conclusion above the scholarship of the very men who wrote it, or knew the men who wrote it. Even if that aforementioned scenario were the case, I have a hard time believing such a scholar would, through knowledge and critique of the text as historically understood and rejecting it, so openly embrace a competing system such as Islam without being fluent in Arabic at the same level for true scholarly comparison all around.

In mulling through past posts, I did not find such a claim in Arabic proficiency- did I miss it?

Very clear doctrinal writings go back to the 1st century A.D. that expound and explain the text of the just completed Christian Bible in terms of the New Testament. Men who were the very students of St. John the Apostle, a critical figure in the entire process of the development of Christendom, have written extensively, and have bore witness to its power and truth through their willing deaths, successor and student, catechumen, and those merely expressing the desire to claim Jesus as their Lord and King, one with God the Father, as He is God the Son. St. John, the most beloved disciple, witness to the Calvary, witness to the resurrected Christ. A man who coined some of the most beautiful opening verses in the entire Bible, and so philosophically profound, it’s the entire Gospel stage set for the divine angle of Jesus’ nature in the first 14 verses. Its use of Greek philosophy, which was pertinent to the culture, still resonates today. Those words flow like honey, and it is all one can do not to melt in their uttered presence. If one just savors that understanding throughout the New Testament, and then re-reads the Old Testament, you see Jesus Christ EVERYWHERE. The continuity of concept is insanely complex and spans millennia. Archaeological findings constantly vindicate the Bible in any lies or fibs, and increasingly so. The Quran, at alarming rates, is practically a joke in the Islamic Scholar world. Not the self-styled imams, but truly dedicated students of applying sound Western methods to Eastern texts, as well as study of actual history. The actual history of the Quran’s compiling was so haphazard and riddled with no defined oral tradition amongst the breadth of its spread, that the compiling of the Quran reveals much less care and critique than the Bible. Even collecting Hadith was a process of converging all found witnesses, and then trying to make sense of it all, and scholars and schools STILL don’t agree on that. There is no central authority in Islam. It’s chaos from the start.

There is very apparent order and reason in the history of Israel, and the establishment of Christianity. The abstract mystical and mysterious elements do require faith, and through faith comes wisdom on matters- pursuant to the central authority, the Pope. The tightness of theological and philosophical development is never compromised in the Catholic Church. Through thick and thin, there are no actual variances in the core concept of everything. Groups of dissenters split off, yes, but it’s absolutely asinine to ascribe dissenting nobodies any authority in interpreting a set of writings they did not compile. Like you I suspect, they only knew enough of the language and/or rudimentary basics of the faith, without a true grasp of the weight of other ancillary concepts and truths, and thus ran afoul of the authority and understanding of that which already expresses bequeathed knowledge, understanding, and aid from the Holy Spirit; not at the whim of what is popular or what is culturally accepted, but what is true, moral, and just.

Where men may fail, the Church stands tall and stays true to Her way. She always has, and always will. The same cannot be said for most, and for who else it can be said, no sane person would want any part.

The truth hurts. I choose to praise God for the pain of it, than the false bliss of its absence. It is a constant fight to maintain in oneself, and to express to society in the same. Why delve into something to distance oneself from the militant, when one can find such peace, love, joy, and contentment in the Church Militant? For only those who endure the spiritual battle we all wage, as is waged, shall find entrance into the Church Triumphant. And, as soldiers are wont to do as they are human, this can lead to a stint in the Church Suffering. A suffering which is made pleasing through the recognition of entering the full glory of God without stain of sin, or blemish. Pure. Perfect. In communion with God as God intended. Intended so much He, in His Word, became flesh, and walked amongst us.

This flesh was Jesus of Nazareth, and He is God the Son.

I chain, nail, bury, boil, light on fire, and exile myself to this belief.

It does not require me to make senseless and unscholarly defense of it, using stunted and circular philosophy. I don’t even have to be an eloquent type, or even educated. I do not need a fearful “angel” to tell me this, nor do I need to be persuaded by the sting of a blade.

I merely must open my ears and eyes, listen, grasp, and weigh myself against it to know it is true. And lucky me, secular history agrees more and more about the particular details. And even period sources of Pagan Rome fit like puzzle pieces.

It’s… almost… like… it’s, true!?

So, the movement of logos via gnosis, resulting in understanding, leaves a man with but 2 options: accept and live it, or reject it and tilt at windmills in the ignorance of the chasm disguised in the path.
 
Care to elaborate? I have only found beauty and peace in Qur’aan.
I would be lying if I told you I knew the ‘true’ Islam and that all other interpretations were wrong. Instead I simply try and follow Allah’s command and seek His mercy where I fail to do so.
I was a Christian and I can say with a decent amount of certainty that I will not return to any church. I have too many doubts about the Christian faith.
Kouyate,

Could you please open a new thread discussing your believes, it would be good to have a dialogue so that you point out the beauty of Quran as you claim and other members will point you some versus from the Bible which will flush them, however, I suggest that you read my home page thread, I was born within the Arabic poetry, grown on it, yet I found that the rhymed prose in the Bible outpace any Quranic ones even in my native language which is Arabic…
 
Eric…

I have read your posts elsewhere…

I am pretty aware of English position towards Roman Catholics, and had contact among them overseas…

Actually, where do you stand in the Church? are you Roman Catholic? You seem to repeat Protestant renditions of Catholic history…albeit mid 1800 American restorationist renditions…

Just wondering…
 
Kouyate,

Could you please open a new thread discussing your believes, it would be good to have a dialogue so that you point out the beauty of Quran as you claim and other members will point you some versus from the Bible which will flush them, however, I suggest that you read my home page thread, I was born within the Arabic poetry, grown on it, yet I found that the rhymed prose in the Bible outpace any Quranic ones even in my native language which is Arabic…
What purpose would this serve?

@daralharb: I learnt enough Hebrew in my time at school (Jewish religious studies teacher) to understand the basic meanings of passages, and bear in mind I lived for several years in a neighbourhood which was full of Orthodox Jews, which meant I learnt some more Hebrew and with help could read a passage of Torah.

And I am learning Arabic, but I make no claim to be fluent. As part of my Islamic studies, I’m learning the language and can recite 20 surat in Arabic.
 
What purpose would this serve?

@daralharb: I learnt enough Hebrew in my time at school (Jewish religious studies teacher) to understand the basic meanings of passages, and bear in mind I lived for several years in a neighbourhood which was full of Orthodox Jews, which meant I learnt some more Hebrew and with help could read a passage of Torah.

And I am learning Arabic, but I make no claim to be fluent. As part of my Islamic studies, I’m learning the language and can recite 20 surat in Arabic.
So basically, everything I said stands in regard to you not having the training to make such a claim. :hmmm:

I wish you much success in finding the Truth, as it seems you are seeking it in your own way. There is only one Truth, so this is not an “all roads lead to heaven” statement.

Keep hammering at it. 😉

Eventually, hopefully, you’ll see the nails, the face, and Cross and praise God for His awesome Grace and Mercy, and most importantly- Love.
 
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