Catholics ARE "Christians"; so why aren't all Christians Catholic?

[Tomdstone]

because no Apostle ever taught this

““Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.””

Is that an infallible declaration? How binding is it supposed to be? Take for example, the Queen of England. I don’t think that she would consider herself to be subject to the Roman Pontiff?

 

[Padres1969]

Is it?

If you’re a Catholic, then you’re a Christian I.e. your religion is Christianity. I think it’s this thread that’s the issue.

Indeed. All Roman Catholics are Christians, not all Christians are Roman Catholic… What’s so hard to understand about that?

 

[Sy_Noe]

Is it?

If you’re a Catholic, then you’re a Christian I.e. your religion is Christianity. I think it’s this thread that’s the issue.

Then why do you have “Catholic” instead of “Christianity” listed as your religion.

 

[Peter_J]

Then why do you have “Catholic” instead of “Christianity” listed as your religion.

Touche.

There was a time, several years ago, when a handful of Catholic and Orthodox posters put “Religion: Christianity” in their profiles, along with “Location: Catholic [resp. Orthodox] Church”.

 

[Peter_J]

Is that an infallible declaration?

As a matter of fact, I’ve encountered some RCs who believe it to be an ex cathedra, and hence infallible, statement.

 

[Tomdstone]

As a matter of fact, I’ve encountered some RCs who believe it to be an ex cathedra, and hence infallible, statement.

Does that mean that the Queen of England and all of her non-Catholic subjects cannot be saved?

 

[alwayswill]

Is that an infallible declaration? How binding is it supposed to be? Take for example, the Queen of England. I don’t think that she would consider herself to be subject to the Roman Pontiff?

Absolutely; that part of Unam Sanctam is it considered an infallible declaration.
I don’t think there is any debate on that.

"“Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define
that it is** absolutely necessary **
for salvation
that every human creature
be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”

Was the Apostle John’s salvation dependent upon his submission to Pope Linus?
Which Apostle taught this?

 

[rcwitness]

because no Apostle ever taught this

““Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.””

I beg to differ!

1 Peter 2
Be subject for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him.

Romans 13
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.2 Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of him who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval…

 

[alwayswill]

I beg to differ!

1 Peter 2
Be subject for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him.

Romans 13
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.2 Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of him who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval…

That does NOT say your salvation depends on it.

 

[rcwitness]

That does NOT say your salvation depends on it.

So it’s only a suggestion, or a command?

What is the Judgement that will occur?

I’m not saying there are not degrees of defiance, but that the Scriptures command this obedience, and by defying we risk grave offense to God.

 

[alwayswill]

So it’s only a suggestion, or a command?

What is the Judgement that will occur?

I’m not saying there are not degrees of defiance, but that the Scriptures command this obedience, and by defying we risk grave offense to God.

I’m not following how not submitting to an earthly authority of any kind invalidates the plan of salvation
Please explain to us how anyone’s **salvation depends on ** submission to Obama?

 

[rcwitness]

Please explain to us how anyone’s **salvation depends on ** submission to Obama?

You commit a felony and do not subject yourself to the judgment of that crime, while knowing it and lying or hiding to evade a court hearing.

This is fundamentally against the commands of Christ. And so liable to the fires of hell.

Though it is He who judges these matters, not I.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

So it’s only a suggestion, or a command?

I repeat the request I made of you when I was on my way to Macedonia, that you stay in Ephesus to instruct certain people not to teach false doctrines or to concern themselves with myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the plan of God that is to be received by faith. The aim of this instruction is love from a pure heart, a good conscience, and a sincere faith. Some people have deviated from these and turned to meaningless talk, wanting to be teachers of the law, but without understanding either what they are saying or what they assert with such assurance. (1Tm 1:3-7)

Church Order
We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and who are over you in the Lord and who admonish you, and to show esteem for them with special love on account of their work. Be at peace among yourselves. (1Thes 5:12-13)

What do Protestants make of these teachings?

 

[PJM]

Sure. I for example disagree that I as a Christian worship the Allah of Islam. The Roman Catholic Church believes that I do.

OK???

And you know this based on what evidence my friend? Please share it.

God Bless you

Patrick

 

[Peter_J]

Does that mean that the Queen of England and all of her non-Catholic subjects cannot be saved?

If “that” refers to my “some RCs who believe …”, then No, obviously not. Heck, I recall something posted on the web (by an RC) that asserted that the word “literal” means “whatever the author intended” … does the fact that the poster was RC make it correct? Please. (rolls eyes sarcastically)

On the other hand, if you’re asking What did Pope Boniface mean by his statement, then I can only say that different Catholics interpret it differently. (Possibly one reason for the lack of consensus about whether it was an ex cathedra statement.)

 

[Peter_J]

Absolutely; that part of Unam Sanctam is it considered an infallible declaration.

Yes … by some.

 

[rcwitness]

On the other hand, if you’re asking What did Pope Boniface mean by his statement, then I can only say that different Catholics interpret it differently. (Possibly one reason for the lack of consensus about whether it was an ex cathedra statement.)

which is why I put it in context of what Scripture has to say on the subject. I would think that would appeal to Sola Scripture advocates.

 

[PJM]

Quote:
Originally Posted by PJM View Post
Nowhere in the entire bible can it be demonstrated that GOD [Yahweh or Jesus} even one time allowed, or tolerated competing sets of faith beliefs.
The Jews are God’s chosen people and they never believed in the Trinity, either now or before in the OT.[end quote]

The Jews are God’s chosen people and they never believed in the Trinity, either now or before in the OT.

Agreed, BUT WHY is that?

1. the OT “leads to the NT”, that is points the way to Jesus as the long awaited Messiah.
2. The NT then fulfills, completes and even perfects the Old Testament.

God’s multifaceted task in the OT includes

Introducing the concept of JUST "One True God & just One True set of faith beliefs {Exo 6:7}

Then weaning then {the carrot & stick approach} from beliefs that their world held for Many gods

Then choosing JUST one People {Exo 6:7} to be later followed by Jesus with establishing JUST one Church and faith

This “Chosen People” were nomadic, largely “un” or under educated, and “stiffed necked”. [Set in their ways]

GOOGLE “the Trinity in the Old Testament”, and you’ll discover that some hints, some signs were given but not grasped.

Here we are some 2,000 years hence and we STILL don’t {can’t} fully understand it despite being in a time of GRACE, NOT just “Thee Laws.”

The Trinity remains the most incomprehensible Mystery of our Faith, followed closely by the Real Presence. So our expectations ought to recognize that reality IMO:

Lastly, when in the history of humanity does a “lack of belief” change the what can only be “Singular truths”? … Truth remains truth even if unknown, denied, or misunderstood. Amen!

God Bless you

Patrick

 

[Wannano]

I beg to differ!

1 Peter 2
Be subject for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him.

Romans 13
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.2 Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of him who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval…

Hi rc, in 1 Peter 2 :25, is the Bishop of your souls meaning Peter or Jesus?

 

[susanlo]

I beg to differ!

1 Peter 2
Be subject for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him.

Romans 13
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.2 Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of him who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval…

Peter and Paul both wrote that people should follow their earthly leaders in government. Yet both were jailed and executed for disobeying the government. It seems to me that the message is to follow earthly leaders secondary to following the command and will of God. They set the example for civil disobedience of sorts.