Catholics Converting to Evangelical: More Fun and Happy

[Alphonsus_John]

kuwaittimes.net/read_news.php?newsid=NzgzMTU4MzY5

I believe that it is our own Church’s responsibility to try to keep people in the faith. Perhaps more folk masses, or, letting the people pick from a list of songs that they want to sing at mass. I am not advocating a free for all, however, why not allow more participation from the people in picking music suitable for the liturgy?

What’s interesting is the Catholic Church in Kuwait largely serves the Philipino expats. For a Muslim country, Kuwait is a pretty tolerant place and and enough (secularish) Muslims go drinking on Christmas eve. I lived there for 9 months in 2004.

I know it’s off topic, but it is hilarious at how the traffic rules are ignored in Kuwait. Nothing like seeing someone hurtle at 80 mph down the WRONG WAY on the highway.

 

[ocean_of_peace]

You absolutely right on this point. The Eucharist IS the whole point and believing in the true body an blood of Christ in the sacrament is vital. But this is acheived by making the liturgy more solemn and reverent, not more flashy and entertaining.

I agree with you… The Eucharist is the whole point. Most of these people I guess are only after about what that religion has for them. They weren’t after about the true meaning of the Eucharist. They might think that Catholic faith is not enough because they’re wants and needs haven’t been answered by the church. The whole point is this… Do they really seek for the truth and living with Christ forever? Or they were just seeking for the flashy entertainment and at the same time worshiping Christ? That is not nice. As the Lord say in the Bible, you cannot serve two masters at the same time.

 

[mgrfin]

kuwaittimes.net/read_news.php?newsid=NzgzMTU4MzY5

I believe that it is our own Church’s responsibility to try to keep people in the faith. Perhaps more folk masses, or, letting the people pick from a list of songs that they want to sing at mass. I am not advocating a free for all, however, why not allow more participation from the people in picking music suitable for the liturgy?

I think our biggest failure in our ceremonial is our Church music.

I heard singing on TBN the other night. The song was melodious, joined into by the full audience. The theology was acceptable. It was a fine song.

I didn’t write down the name of the song, but we need to be able to put such much into our liturgy, for young people, and for old.

Tomorrow is the Feast of the Seven Sorrows of the BVM. The Sequence “Stabat Mater” is a well known hymn (in latin), but that is an example where our liturgy used music that was liturgical, and easily sung. We have lost all of that, and have not developed acceptable liturgical music where our parishioners join in lustily in such an important part of the worship.

peace

 

[Nohome]

I think our biggest failure in our ceremonial is our Church music.

I heard singing on TBN the other night. The song was melodious, joined into by the full audience. The theology was acceptable. It was a fine song.

I didn’t write down the name of the song, but we need to be able to put such much into our liturgy, for young people, and for old.

Tomorrow is the Feast of the Seven Sorrows of the BVM. The Sequence “Stabat Mater” is a well known hymn (in latin), but that is an example where our liturgy used music that was liturgical, and easily sung. We have lost all of that, and have not developed acceptable liturgical music where our parishioners join in lustily in such an important part of the worship.

peace

One of my favorite things about visiting a protestant church is that the music is printed in four parts. Catholic churches just give the melody line and we all sing the same part in different octaves. Makes for some seriously uninspired music.

Interestingly enough, I was exsposed to some of the musical treasure of the Catholic church by joining a Lutheran choir.

Nohome

 

[DJgang]

The key is not more and better entertainment, but more and better education.

Amen!

[SIGN]I have nothing else to add! I’ve BTDT…[/SIGN]

 

[mgrfin]

One of my favorite things about visiting a protestant church is that the music is printed in four parts. Catholic churches just give the melody line and we all sing the same part in different octaves. Makes for some seriously uninspired music.

Interestingly enough, I was exsposed to some of the musical treasure of the Catholic church by joining a Lutheran choir.

Nohome

Well, get home, and bring the music with you.

peace

 

[johnnydigit]

there’s lots of entertaining things available to Catholics outside of mass. usually they can be found in Catholic communities/youth or young adult groups/movements/etc. many parishioners have no idea what their Church offers, but they’re out there, especially if they’re open to exploring their diocese. if not, they should try to start one, which rarely happens.

we’ve had the Mass for 2000 years and i think a reason why it has sustained time is because it isn’t trendy. if people leave, it’s usually because of ignorance of how precious the Mass is. so who does this fall on…

i don’t think it’s a coincidence that the youth today who understand our faith the most are wanting an even more reverent and traditional mass…

 

[DebChris]

When my Cursillo group met this morning, one of the women talked about going to services at a different church as well. There everybody fellowshipped. There was food and this was brought into the sanctuary. For a Catholic, this can be disconcerting. The question was why. The preacher was definitely Spirit filled and his words were powerful. It is the matter of atmosphere. At this non-denomination church, it was no different than going to a meeting. Despite God’s Word being forcefully spoken, there was no reverance. It all comes down to one thing—The Real Presence of Christ. People are drawn to the Catholic Church because of our reverance. God is real, not only in our hearts but in the physical surrounding. We receive Christ in the Eucharist. We see the corpus on the cross and know that a real man suffered this things. It is not santized to empty wooden beams. We give worship to God not only with our voices but with our hearts as well. Pehaps because we are so close to the truth, we are not always aware of it and we take what we have for granted. We need the insight of somebody who has come to the Church from the outside, such as Thomas Merton (Seven Story Mountain)

 

[po18guy]

kuwaittimes.net/read_news.php?newsid=NzgzMTU4MzY5I believe that it is our own Church’s responsibility to try to keep people in the faith. Perhaps more folk masses, or, letting the people pick from a list of songs that they want to sing at mass. I am not advocating a free for all, however, why not allow more participation from the people in picking music suitable for the liturgy?

Christ is the Truth, and the Truth is Christ, just as Christ is the Eucharist and the Eucharist is Christ. To leave Him in the Eucharist is to choose this world, and it’s exciting music and dynamic preachers, over Him. Thus you risk judgment that is not tempered by mercy. To remain with Him, clinging to the truth, invites mercy along with God’s eternal justice. All will receive God’s justice in the final judgment, but the faithful, who remain with Him, have hope of the tempering power of mercy upon that judgment.

The excitement, frenzied dancing and dynamic preaching associated with some evangelical congregations reminds me of the frenzied dancing of the Baal worshippers in 1 Kings 18:26-29 “So they took the bull given them and prepared it. Then they called on the name of Baal from morning till noon. “O Baal, answer us!” they shouted. But there was no response; no one answered. And they danced around the altar they had made. At noon Elijah began to taunt them. “Shout louder!” he said. “Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened.” So they shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed. Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention.”

Those who danced and prophesied thought they were serving a true god, but realized that their worship was in vain. They had turned away from the True God to a god of excitement.

If you are seeking entertainment, go to a concert or dance. If you seek truth, you go to Christ in His fullness. The Lord does not prohibit both, but places a clear choice before us, as He always has. Choose wisely.

 

[mgrfin]

Christ is the Truth, and the Truth is Christ, just as Christ is the Eucharist and the Eucharist is Christ. To leave Him in the Eucharist is to choose this world, and it’s exciting music and dynamic preachers, over Him. Thus you risk judgment that is not tempered by mercy. To remain with Him, clinging to the truth, invites mercy along with God’s eternal justice. All will receive God’s justice in the final judgment, but the faithful, who remain with Him, have hope of the tempering power of mercy upon that judgment.

The excitement, frenzied dancing and dynamic preaching associated with some evangelical congregations reminds me of the frenzied dancing of the Baal worshippers in 1 Kings 18:26-29 “So they took the bull given them and prepared it. Then they called on the name of Baal from morning till noon. “O Baal, answer us!” they shouted. But there was no response; no one answered. And they danced around the altar they had made. At noon Elijah began to taunt them. “Shout louder!” he said. “Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened.” So they shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed. Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention.”

Those who danced and prophesied thought they were serving a true god, but realized that their worship was in vain. They had turned away from the True God to a god of excitement.

If you are seeking entertainment, go to a concert or dance. If you seek truth, you go to Christ in His fullness. The Lord does not prohibit both, but places a clear choice before us, as He always has. Choose wisely.

Yeah, it’s not really worship, or religion. It’s entertainment.

peace

 

[Gardening_Mommy]

The saddest thing is that those who leave the Catholic Church in search of a trendy, back-slapping, exciting church will often go on to search for the next exciting church… it doesn’t stop at the first one! What if a new pastor is hired? What if the pastor you liked was fired? What if the great praise-and-worship band actually gets a record contract and goes on tour, leaving you with the not-nearly-as-good band? When does the excitement wear off? One year? Two? And what do you do when the doctrine seems “off” but nobody wants to talk about “stodgy doctrinal stuff” and really answer your hard questions?

I’ve been in a “fun and happy” parish. Everyone hugged everyone at the sign of peace, the donuts were in the back of the worship space, the music was hip and contemporary… and the pastor was removed under investigation for sexual misconduct, the sermons were consistently “not quite right”, and the pastor was allowing “Catholics for a Free Choice” to use the parish’s meeting rooms.

The pope had a great piece of thought on this in Pilgrim Fellowship of Faith (which I am only slowly working my way through), p.45, talking about the Holy Spirit as"Pneuma" (breath or spirit):

For it is now clear that anyone who looks for “Pneuma” only as something “exterior”, in what is unpredictable, is on the wrong track. Anyone who does so is failing to recognize the fundamental activity of the Holy Spirit: the love that unites and draws into abiding unity.

“Abiding unity” doesn’t seem to be what most people in the Church have in mind when they talk about the “spirit of Vatican II” or the Holy Spirit. They seem to think of Him as more like “change for the sake of change, questioning authority for the sake of questioning, and protest for the sake of doing Something Important.”

If you go chasing the excitement of new music, you are confusing the unpredictability of newness with “the movement of the Spirit.” I agree that more reverence in the Mass and better catechesis would certainly help people understand what we have in the Eucharist (and what Protestants don’t have). (Don’t get me wrong; I love Contemporary Christian Music. Unlike the aging hippies at of our “contemporary choir,” however, CCM didn’t quit with drippy forty year old folk music! At the same time, most of the Newsboys’ or Third Day’s stuff wouldn’t be appropriate for mass.)

But how much of our liturgy and teaching fits this description, too? “The movement of the Spirit” is always the excuse for the latest group, cause, call for change in the Church, etc.

I’m not sure most of us have even an adequate understanding of the Holy Spirit. He’s a lot more amorphous than God the Father or God the Son. Maybe we should start our reverence and catechesis with the Holy Spirit, so that we all understand Who we are looking for in the first place. It might convince some people to stay in the Church and it certainly could help many parishes’ misinterpretations of Vatican II.

 

[conorsdad]

Anybody that would leave the church because he wants better entertainment and fun stuff certainly doesn’t know what the Mass is all about.

After quite a long time as a lapsed Catholic, I started attending an evangelical “non-denominational” (doctrinally it was baptist) church with contemporary services…band playing upbeat rock music, etc. Very friendly people, very active. It seemed great, at the time I was thinking it was exactly what I was looking for. After a while…I was feeling empty inside. The “rock concert” atmosphere of the services seemed spiritually hollow after a while, and I started attending there less and less. It wasn’t until I attended a funeral Mass for a family member at a Catholic Church that I felt something inside, I felt a closeness to God that I wan;t experiencing at the other church. I have been back as a Catholic ever since, with a new appeciation for my faith. I am now getting ready to start RCIA, since I was never confirmed.

 

[po18guy]

After quite a long time as a lapsed Catholic, I started attending an evangelical “non-denominational” (doctrinally it was baptist) church with contemporary services…band playing upbeat rock music, etc. Very friendly people, very active. It seemed great, at the time I was thinking it was exactly what I was looking for. After a while…I was feeling empty inside. The “rock concert” atmosphere of the services seemed spiritually hollow after a while, and I started attending there less and less. It wasn’t until I attended a funeral Mass for a family member at a Catholic Church that I felt something inside, I felt a closeness to God that I wan;t experiencing at the other church. I have been back as a Catholic ever since, with a new appeciation for my faith. I am now getting ready to start RCIA, since I was never confirmed.

Praise God in Heaven! Since everything happens for a reason, this is truly a case of someone not dying in vain. It took a sobering up from the distractions of this world, and it’s worldly churches, a refocus on matters of death and eternal life, to call you back. Your seeking heart submitted to the call of God. There is great hope both for you and for your deceased family member. May their soul rest in peace, and may God’s perpetual light shine upon them. Welcome back.

Christ’s peace be always with you.

 

[iamrefreshed]

kuwaittimes.net/read_news.php?newsid=NzgzMTU4MzY5

I believe that it is our own Church’s responsibility to try to keep people in the faith. Perhaps more folk masses, or, letting the people pick from a list of songs that they want to sing at mass. I am not advocating a free for all, however, why not allow more participation from the people in picking music suitable for the liturgy?

Will more folk masses keep people in the faith?

Seems to me the opposite has happened. More folk masses led to people leaving the faith.

Maybe what we need is more Litany of the Saints?

 

[mgrfin]

After quite a long time as a lapsed Catholic, I started attending an evangelical “non-denominational” (doctrinally it was baptist) church with contemporary services…band playing upbeat rock music, etc. Very friendly people, very active. It seemed great, at the time I was thinking it was exactly what I was looking for. After a while…I was feeling empty inside. The “rock concert” atmosphere of the services seemed spiritually hollow after a while, and I started attending there less and less. It wasn’t until I attended a funeral Mass for a family member at a Catholic Church that I felt something inside, I felt a closeness to God that I wan;t experiencing at the other church. I have been back as a Catholic ever since, with a new appeciation for my faith. I am now getting ready to start RCIA, since I was never confirmed.

Nice story. Welcome back.

peace

 

[VoxOrion]

As a former protestant, I think it represents misunderstanding to say that the “rock and roll” is what’s needed to keep protestants in place, or to keep from looking for the next church. I spent 14 years in the same protestant baptist church and I wasn’t aware of anyone leaving because there weren’t enough exciting hymns (or anyone joining because of them).

I think Scott Hahn says it best when he observes that protestant church services tend to be more dramatic because they consciously or unconsciously know they’re missing and/or making up for something - the presence of Christ!

As a new Catholic, I can say from very recent experience that Mass, with all of it’s musical “failings”, is infinitely more satisfying to my spirit and soul!

In a thread this long I’m sure someone else has said this: but those parisoners aren’t turning away from the Church because of music - I suspect there are more than a few fallacies in that observation.

 

[po18guy]

I think Scott Hahn says it best when he observes that protestant church services tend to be more dramatic because they consciously or unconsciously know they’re missing and/or making up for something - the presence of Christ!

As a new Catholic, I can say from very recent experience that Mass, with all of it’s musical “failings”, is infinitely more satisfying to my spirit and soul!

Amen, and well said. The music sticks out in many peoples’ minds due to the sheer volume! But, thank God that the “pull” of Christ was felt in your case, and that you are now home!

 

[brockmac]

First, I agree whole heartedly with Scott Hahn’s assesment. I have gone to protestant services with friends in the past and always left feeling unfulfilled.

As for the music, I have been to charimatic masses, life teen Masses, guitar/folk Masses, Novus Ordo Masses with solemn organ music and indult Tridentine Masses. I would gladly attend any one of these than any protestant service because of the Eucharist.

I would also say that I have encountered sincere, devout, and reverent Catholics in each of these. Interestingly enough, here in Houston, the best, most Catholic homilies I have heard have been at the Charismatic Center. The priests there are not afraid to talk about contraception, abortion, divorce, the authority of the Church, or any number of other “sensitive” topics. And when I go there, and people see me with my five children and tell me how blessed I am, they mean it. I have also met wonderfully devout people who prefer the EF. I have heard a lot of carping in these forums about Life Teen Masses, but I have also heard that Life Teen programs produce a pretty high number, percentage wise, of vocations.

My point is that if the mass is celebrated properly, i.e. the priest reads the prayers as they are written, Christ becomes present in the Eucharist, and the faithful recieve Him in Communion… What ever kind of music helps you to focus on Christ and express your love for him, you should find a Mass with that music and go. And if someone else has a different preference, don’t beat them up for it.

Pax et Bonem

 

[DebChris]

Christ is the Truth, and the Truth is Christ, just as Christ is the Eucharist and the Eucharist is Christ. To leave Him in the Eucharist is to choose this world, and it’s exciting music and dynamic preachers, over Him. Thus you risk judgment that is not tempered by mercy. To remain with Him, clinging to the truth, invites mercy along with God’s eternal justice. All will receive God’s justice in the final judgment, but the faithful, who remain with Him, have hope of the tempering power of mercy upon that judgment.

The excitement, frenzied dancing and dynamic preaching associated with some evangelical congregations reminds me of the frenzied dancing of the Baal worshippers in 1 Kings 18:26-29 “So they took the bull given them and prepared it. Then they called on the name of Baal from morning till noon. “O Baal, answer us!” they shouted. But there was no response; no one answered. And they danced around the altar they had made. At noon Elijah began to taunt them. “Shout louder!” he said. “Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened.” So they shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed. Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention.”

Those who danced and prophesied thought they were serving a true god, but realized that their worship was in vain. They had turned away from the True God to a god of excitement.

If you are seeking entertainment, go to a concert or dance. If you seek truth, you go to Christ in His fullness. The Lord does not prohibit both, but places a clear choice before us, as He always has. Choose wisely.

Don’t forget that David danced before the Ark of the Covenant, much to the chagrin of Mikal. We are called to offer a sacrifice of praise to God. When we do love God with “all our heart, and all our mind, and all our being,” it may be that we will dance because of the joy we experience in knowing God. The song “And the Father will Dance” is at this moment flowing through my mind. We know from scripture that there is “more joy in heaven over one repentent sinner than over the 100 righteous.” The Mass is a place where heaven and earth join in prayer. Is there any reason that this prayer might not be joyful?
I am not talking about entertainment. I am referring instead to what it means to be overwhelmed by the power of God to the extent that all my soul wants to do is sing His praises. I do not need to go outside the Catholic Church for this to happen.

 

[po18guy]

Don’t forget that David danced before the Ark of the Covenant, much to the chagrin of Mikal. We are called to offer a sacrifice of praise to God. When we do love God with “all our heart, and all our mind, and all our being,” it may be that we will dance because of the joy we experience in knowing God. The song “And the Father will Dance” is at this moment flowing through my mind. We know from scripture that there is “more joy in heaven over one repentent sinner than over the 100 righteous.” The Mass is a place where heaven and earth join in prayer. Is there any reason that this prayer might not be joyful?
I am not talking about entertainment. I am referring instead to what it means to be overwhelmed by the power of God to the extent that all my soul wants to do is sing His praises. I do not need to go outside the Catholic Church for this to happen.

Dancing and singing, yes! But, so much more as well. Christ Himself! It is apparent that the non-denoms use excitement in an attempt to fill that vacuum that exists without Christ in the Eucharist. This is mentioned time after time by those who have spent a lifetime searching other churches, and have finally come home. But, just try to convince a non-Catholic of that! Exactly where the power of prayer and the Holy Spirit come in. Amen!