Catholics favor "gay marriage" according to new poll

[CathModerate]

It would be awesome to see the church come forward one day and bless a gay union on the caveat that homosexuals can live together but be chaste. Sure they would be upset, but a great step forward imo.

 

[cyberwolf001]

Sure is denial in here.

It takes a lot of arrogance to think you got the authority to grant other faiths the right to marry eh? (By this I mean Catholics believe all marriages in the world are subject to there rules).

Personally I have at times thought of returning the favor and not recognizing Catholic “marriages” however one think I’ve learned on here is they can dish it out but cannot take it.

 

[Spencerian]

It doesn’t bother me in the least actually, and I don’t even believe in Gay marriage. What you describe as dissension we Anglican’s would call discussion. Its what we do, we are good as it, we do it loudly and in public. We air our laundry.

Your statement is true…

…Which is why more than a few Anglicans are formally moving to the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church can argue amongst themselves, but they hold to their teachings and know what is in their power to teach or not teach. Meanwhile, many faith traditions (Anglicans included) are changing (on their own authority, not through Scriptural authority given by God) what the CC sees as unchangeable teachings as given in Scripture–gay marriage being one of them. Some Anglicans believe as Catholics do…2+2 always equals 4. Gay marriage is a natural contradiction.

It’s one thing to question teaching, which both CC and AC laities do. It’s entirely another to ignore teachings for the sake of political correctness.

The source of the poll has an automatic bias and is easily invalidated. A poll source cannot be inclusive of the question, nor can the poll sources be a subset of a randomly but sufficiently large sample.

 

[jwinch2]

It takes a lot of arrogance to think you got the authority to grant other faiths the right to marry eh? (By this I mean Catholics believe all marriages in the world are subject to there rules).

Personally I have at times thought of returning the favor and not recognizing Catholic “marriages” however one think I’ve learned on here is they can dish it out but cannot take it.

I was once like you and once believed as you do, but you are wrong.

It is not representative of the Church thinking it has authority of any kind. It is the Church admitting that it does NOT have the authority to change God’s definition of marriage. The two things are very different. And as for arrogance, I would suggest that it is far more arrogant to think that one knows better than our creator than it is to continue to teach His words in the face of outside pressures.

 

[UnworthyApostle]

Well, I’d like to establish a couple of things:

First the Catechism unempathetically states,homosexual acts as “intrinsically disordered”: "They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved."4(catholic.com/library/gay_marriage.asp

Now, we need to define what is the proper role then for homosexuals in the church if they CANNOT partake in a marraige covenant.(Sex, and romantic intimacy, is only permitted in the bed of marriage, and since homosexual intimacy is disordered there can be no homosexual marriage because it does not allow for intimacy and procreation.)

Well look at these words of our Blessed Lord, " For there are eunuchs(those incapable of sex), who were born so from their mother’s womb…for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it." (Matthew 19:11)

AND

For when they(Saints) shall rise again from the dead, they shall neither marry, nor be married, but are as the angels in heaven.(12:25)

We get two truths from this, namely, some people are born incapable of marriage,homosexuals included, and that there is no marriage in heaven.

I believe that the calling of someone who has homosexual attractions, not sinful in and of themselves, is to bear witness to the heavenly reality on earth,ministering to the church, as the angels do in heaven for Our Father. So, their calling is to lead a life of celibacy and sacrafice for the greater glory of the Kingdom of God.

 

[nhylan]

Your statement is true…

…Which is why more than a few Anglicans are formally moving to the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church can argue amongst themselves, but they hold to their teachings and know what is in their power to teach or not teach. Meanwhile, many faith traditions (Anglicans included) are changing (on their own authority, not through Scriptural authority given by God) what the CC sees as unchangeable teachings as given in Scripture–gay marriage being one of them. Some Anglicans believe as Catholics do…2+2 always equals 4. Gay marriage is a natural contradiction.

It’s one thing to question teaching, which both CC and AC laities do. It’s entirely another to ignore teachings for the sake of political correctness.

The source of the poll has an automatic bias and is easily invalidated. A poll source cannot be inclusive of the question, nor can the poll sources be a subset of a randomly but sufficiently large sample.

A thousand or even 5000 Anglicans moving to the Roman Church is exactly a few. 1,000 Anglican’s leaving the communion is .0008% of all Anglicans in the world. Thats not a mass exodus of any sort… This flow works both ways, the majority of my adult confirmation class are former Roman Catholics. But regardless… that’s not why people leave the Anglican Communion. They leave because they don’t like the outcome of the debate not because they don’t like the transparency. Lots of Anglican’s believe that you do, to a degree I do. I don’t believe partnered gay people should be priests, and I don’t believe in gay marriage, I do support civil unions however. An episcopal bishop was just raised this past week who immediately forbid any openly gay people with partners from being ordained in is diocese.

 

[elgar]

Your statement is true…

…Which is why more than a few Anglicans are formally moving to the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church can argue amongst themselves, but they hold to their teachings and know what is in their power to teach or not teach. Meanwhile, many faith traditions (Anglicans included) are changing (on their own authority, not through Scriptural authority given by God) what the CC sees as unchangeable teachings as given in Scripture–gay marriage being one of them. Some Anglicans believe as Catholics do…2+2 always equals 4. Gay marriage is a natural contradiction.

It’s one thing to question teaching, which both CC and AC laities do. It’s entirely another to ignore teachings for the sake of political correctness.

The source of the poll has an automatic bias and is easily invalidated. A poll source cannot be inclusive of the question, nor can the poll sources be a subset of a randomly but sufficiently large sample.

As a former Catholic turned Episcopalian–and as of two years ago–now a member of The Anglican Church of North America, I can honestly say without equivocation that our branch of Anglicanism is adamantly OPPOSED to the idea of gay marriage and all sexual immorality outside of Holy Matrimony due to its condemnation in Scripture. Personal feelings and anecdotes have nothing to do with it. As someone else mentioned, a lie is a lie regardless of numbers supporting it. I never use a religious argument when defending marriage. Gay marriage is an oxymoron.

I am discouraged by these so-called Catholics when they expound on social issues and their general lack of knowledge/denial when it comes to the non-negotiables of the Catholic faith. I have friends who have swum the Tiber and tell me they are real thorns in the sides to those teaching RCIA classes. As far as groups of Anglicans coming into the Catholic church, I only hope and pray they keep the faith in spite of so much opposition from Catholics in the pews. In liberal areas of the country you find weekly mass goers who hold political office and hold all kinds of anti-Catholic positions on everything from late term abortion support, women priests to gay marriage.

 

[Elizabeth502]

…Personal feelings and anecdotes have nothing to do with it. As someone else mentioned, a lie is a lie regardless of numbers supporting it. I never use a religious argument when defending marriage. Gay marriage is an oxymoron.

I am discouraged by these so-called Catholics when they expound on social issues and their general lack of knowledge/denial when it comes to the non-negotiables of the Catholic faith. I have friends who have swum the Tiber and tell me they are real thorns in the sides to those teaching RCIA classes. As far as groups of Anglicans coming into the Catholic church, I only hope and pray they keep the faith in spite of so much opposition from Catholics in the pews. In liberal areas of the country you find weekly mass goers who hold political office and hold all kinds of anti-Catholic positions on everything from late term abortion support, women priests to gay marriage.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

No. What there is is a recognition that more than half of baptized Catholics do not practice their Catholicism, in sacramental participation, Mass attendance, and/or in fidelity to doctrine. There would never be a poll among faithfully practicing Catholics that could produce such an outcome as this story does.

I suspect that there are more than a few regular Mass-going, sacrament-receiving, confession-going, sending-kids-to-parochial-school, commandment-obeying, faithful-to-doctrine Catholics who are willing to give gay marriage or at least civil unions a pass. Maybe not 51+%, but enough that one can’t cavalierly brush them off as unfaithful.

 

[JaredM]

Everything that Catholic supports isn’t based on sripture. It’s all based on tradition. There is nothing in the bible that prohibts same sex marrige. There is nothing in the bible the prohibts female priests. There is nothing in the bible that prohibts priests from getting married.

I have a feeling that if the Catholic church doesn’t modernize it’s views fast it will fade into oblivian. At least Protestantism will surive. Just look at the stagering number in the decline of priests in the Catholic Church.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Everything that Catholic supports isn’t based on sripture. It’s all based on tradition. There is nothing in the bible that prohibts same sex marrige. There is nothing in the bible the prohibts female priests. There is nothing in the bible that prohibts priests from getting married.

I have a feeling that if the Catholic church doesn’t modernize it’s views fast it will fade into oblivian. At least Protestantism will surive. Just look at the stagering number in the decline of priests in the Catholic Church.

We believe God’s design to be that of procreation, something that cannot be accomplished by same sex marriage. But then let’s turn the tables here and request that you provide scriptures showing where same sex marriage was accepted ANYWHERE in scriptures.

**1Co 14:34 Let women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted them to speak but to be subject, as also the law saith.
1Co 14:35 But if they would learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a shame for a woman to speak in the church.
1Co 14:36 Or did the word of God come out from you? Or came it only unto you?
1Co 14:37 If any seem to be a prophet or spiritual, let him know the things that I write to you, that they are the commandments of the Lord.
1Co 14:38 But if any man know not, he shall not be known. **

**1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed; then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not seduced; but the woman, being seduced, was in the transgression.
1Ti 2:15 Yet she shall be saved through child bearing; if she continue in faith and love and sanctification with sobriety. **

A scriptural basis has been provided for the exclusion of women priests. Now please be invited to provide scriptures showing the acceptance of women priests.

Priests take a vow of celibacy, but if you want a scriptural basis for this look to Christ Himself who remained celibate throughout His life, also look at Matthew 19:12.

**
Mat 19:12 For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mothers womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it. **

Tradition is supported by scriptures.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I suspect that there are more than a few regular Mass-going, sacrament-receiving, confession-going, sending-kids-to-parochial-school, commandment-obeying, faithful-to-doctrine Catholics who are willing to give gay marriage or at least civil unions a pass. Maybe not 51+%, but enough that one can’t cavalierly brush them off as unfaithful.

Faithful-to-doctrine Catholics would not include support for civil unions, actually.
That was my point. Just because lots of Catholics perhaps do not understand that, does not mean that such a position is compatible with fidelity.

 

[JaredM]

We believe God’s design to be that of procreation, something that cannot be accomplished by same sex marriage. But then let’s turn the tables here and request that you provide scriptures showing where same sex marriage was accepted ANYWHERE in scriptures.

A scriptural basis has been provided for the exclusion of women priests. Now please be invited to provide scriptures showing the acceptance of women priests.

Priests take a vow of celibacy, but if you want a scriptural basis for this look to Christ Himself who remained celibate throughout His life, also look at Matthew 19:12.

Tradition is supported by scriptures.

Funny how you have yet to post scriture that prohibits same sex marrige, female preists, or married preists.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Funny how you have yet to post scriture that prohibits same sex marrige, female preists, or married preists.

I have provided a scriptural basis, and some explanations, that you failed to respond to directly.

I have noticed you like to post little ‘snippets’ against any aspect of Catholicism and then avoid responding to anything provided.

You deny Catholic beliefs are scriptural, where are the scriptures to support what you’re saying?

It’s one thing to challenge our beliefs, based on your interpretation of scriptures, it’s another to fail to provide scriptures supporting your beliefs thereby showing Catholics they are wrong.

 

[Deckie]

No. What there is is a recognition that more than half of baptized Catholics do not practice their Catholicism, in sacramental participation, Mass attendance, and/or in fidelity to doctrine. There would never be a poll among faithfully practicing Catholics that could produce such an outcome as this story does.

Lots of people identify culturally as Catholic, but invent their own version of Catholicism which is utterly unlike what they have vowed to follow, baptismally. Their opinion has no validity when it comes to Catholic teaching, nor any influence over what the teaching will be in the near or far future.

This is the first bit of logic that i have read on this site.

 

[JaredM]

Tell me this:

Bible states that a man should be married to a wife. Yet people don’t always get married in there entire life. Do those people go to hell for all enterity? Because they are not going forth and multiplying.

Also I have yet to see anything that prohibts same sex marrige, female presits or presits getting married.

Just because Jesus was celibate doesn’t mean all presits should be celibate.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Tell me this:

Bible states that a man should be married to a wife. Yet people don’t always get married in there entire life. Do those people go to hell for all enterity? Because they are not going forth and multiplying.

Also I have yet to see anything that prohibts same sex marrige, female presits or presits getting married.

Just because Jesus was celibate doesn’t mean all presits should be celibate.

Did Christ marry?

A woman should be quiet in the Church is a fairly strong statement, add in a woman should not teach a man and it seems kind of ironclad.

Where are the scriptures to support what you’re saying? Or is Catholicism only held to scriptures in your opinion and you can decide whatever you want? Show us supporting scriptures…

 

[FMX500]

Fear offending God, not the reactions of man.

I like that. But some people just don’t fear Him enough it would seem.

 

[JaredM]

Did Christ marry?

A woman should be quiet in the Church is a fairly strong statement, add in a woman should not teach a man and it seems kind of ironclad.

Where are the scriptures to support what you’re saying? Or is Catholicism only held to scriptures in your opinion and you can decide whatever you want? Show us supporting scriptures…

You know what I could care less what the Bible says sometimes. Tell me does your church follow that women should not speak in church. Do you think eating shellfish is an abomination? I don’t want my society to become some Tablinish like theocracy were women have no freedom what so ever and homosexuals are stoned to death. See this is why people moved away from the bible and adopoted a more rational way of life.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

You know what I could care less what the Bible says sometimes. Tell me does your church follow that women should not speak in church. Do you think eating shellfish is an abomination? I don’t want my society to become some Tablinish like theocracy were women have no freedom what so ever and homosexuals are stoned to death. See this is why people moved away from the bible and adopoted a more rational way of life.

Emphasis above is mine. You hold Catholics to your interpretation of scriptures, yet you fail to produce any scriptures to support what you say you believe. Is that what you’re saying?

The last sentence you wrote seems to indicate that Christianity is something in each of us, without Church or scriptures?