Catholics for Muslims

[Steven_John]

Steven John,
if u’re not interested in Catholic interpretation of the verses you brought, it’s ok,

Sorry my reading does let me down some times so far all i have gotten is from Tepo that the gardener is not Yeshua (pbwh). Is that the total of the Catholic interpretation please read my posts my our priest says the gardener is Yeshua (pbwh) and i have missed here explanation other than how wrong i am as you also have pointed out. Please post for me the Catholic explanation as you have read my posts you would know i am keen for it.

If u seem angry at someone else’s standing, it just shows that u’re not being tolerant ur self. Your own argument seems to be the thing that u’re opposed to of Catholic being uncharitable to other, u’re in fact fall to the same hole.

please look to my posts and read if i was included in in or out of the argument i supposed. I feel you want to help but are posting what i posted as if i did not see it.

Seems to me that whatever u have try to present urself as believer of one true G-d, it only stresses ur inclination towards Islam, and it’s shouldn’t be a problem since whatever u want to believe is a matter of your private relationship with God.

does the wording i bold true for you? if so does that mean you have Islamic tendency? Does Islam have copy right on some words or something? I see you as trying to help me but i really dont mind if people see me as Islamic or Christian or Buhdist but i dont think it is fair i am called to account for what i dont post or that i should be told i am wrong but no one offers the alternative, one case in point is the Catholic explanation of this parable.

Bless you too

 

[seraphime2008]

Sorry my reading does let me down some times so far all i have gotten is from Tepo that the gardener is not Yeshua (pbwh). Is that the total of the Catholic interpretation please read my posts my our priest says the gardener is Yeshua (pbwh) and i have missed here explanation other than how wrong i am as you also have pointed out. Please post for me the Catholic explanation as you have read my posts you would know i am keen for it.

Ok…ok…perhaps it’s just your choice of word that made me feel that ur saying that u’re happy of not becoming Catholic (sort of that words…I’m too lazy to quote your exact word), and then you said in such a cynical manner saying Tepo as the master…why don’t u just straightly say that you just have different interpretation of the verses? Isn’t that become obvious that you’re putting your self of holding better interpretation?

please look to my posts and read if i was included in in or out of the argument i supposed. I feel you want to help but are posting what i posted as if i did not see it.

Here’s my thought:
1.I’m also not going to see an official interpretation of Catholic of the verse (don’t know where to find it), and if you’re only arguing on the matter of technical meaning of the word or title “gardener”, it’s just put me in more curiosity since you’re technically avoid the title of God to Jesus as one of the Trinity that all Christians firmly believe. To me you sound more like Muslim since you’re inclined to put the gardener as just a prophetic role. As a Catholic I believe that the landowner and the gardener hold the same power since they come from and share the same authority, just different in role. The tree which supposed to give fruits, we all agree to believe that it represents all human being not only Christians,but since the Christians are the ones who has the message, we’re supposed to think that it’s mostly the Christians’ duty to bear fruits individually. But if you want to say that Muslims can also be taken as tree, no problem, but remember that in the end if the tree doesn’t bear fruits, it will finally have to be cut down, same consequences to Christian individually.

1. You give the titles pbwh, the word be in the title supposed to mean (at least to me) that He was begging for peace from all of us like the prophets of Muslims. It’s like a short prayer of wishing good man peace, like I wish you to have peace. Would you give title to God pbwh ? No? Your previous explanation doesn’t give real answer.
2. You’re accusing of Jesus being nailed in the cross implicitly showed a powerless nature of “God” and tolerated sin, this is a real contempt of the teaching of “Christianity”. I assume that whatever you have said that you’re having all the teachings of religion to be true is a baseless opinion, since evidently there are just real different core of teachings, and u’re not on our side. Tepo has just shown you that it’s not what Christian’s (not only Catholic) basic understanding and principle. To us Christian when He took the cross, He was fulfilling God’s mission that living in the world as fully human fully God, Jesus had shown us that He can be triumphant over death, the thing that makes all of us trembled and incline to sin. Did any other human being ever proved that he could be victorious over death? None, not even Muhammad.
3. Toleration of sin is not what Jesus taught. He also have said that we have to make efforts of becoming “perfect” since God is perfect. If toleration of sins means that as long as it doesn’t give much harm to other people, or to your body, then it’s ok to sin, that’s not what God teaches us. The problem is not toleration of sin, it’s God giving us opportunities to repent and first of all, to know that we all have sinned. Are u saying perhaps that you’re living a fine life without ever hurting anybody intentionally or unintentionally makes your life sinless, then you’re in trouble of having pride and less gratitude to God. It’s also a matter of not what you don’t do, but it’s what you do.

does the wording i bold true for you? if so does that mean you have Islamic tendency? Does Islam have copy right on some words or something? I see you as trying to help me but i really dont mind if people see me as Islamic or Christian or Buhdist but i dont think it is fair i am called to account for what i dont post or that i should be told i am wrong but no one offers the alternative, one case in point is the Catholic explanation of this parable.

Yeap it’s true but when you declare that you’re submitter of one true G-d, and all that previous comment you made (see the above list I wrote), where else can I turn to make conclusion? And well, I also see that most Christians do not choose the word “submit” (this is too much preferred by muslim), since Christians are called to be in a “father-children” relationship, God we believe doesn’t want to have a slave-master relationship, the focus has been shifted (not at all thrown away), so we’re called to love Him with our own free will, do all that pleasing God with our heart and soul, not as a submitter that will be punished if not doing so. We’re to love Him not out of fear. But if you choose to submit, certainly no problem for me, I said it’s a matter of your private relationship with God. Just see my above comment that I made the conclusion of your inclination.

Bless you too!

 

[Steven_John]

Ok…ok…perhaps it’s just your choice of word that made me feel that ur saying that u’re happy of not becoming Catholic (sort of that words…I’m too lazy to quote your exact word), and then you said in such a cynical manner saying Tepo as the master.

no it is in response to Tepo being instant to him objecting to the relationship description of Jesus being brother, Tepo says master I dont have a problem with him being master so said ok. tepo aint my master but lords over me, this spills from other threads

…why don’t u just straightly say that you just have different interpretation of the verses? Isn’t that become obvious that you’re putting your self of holding better interpretation?

with the exception of who is gardener i dont think Tepo and i have difference in opinion just he considers me Muslim and thus takes issue most with what i dont offer. I see scripture as having different level and more than often more than one pleasing to G-ds will interpretation. The tree was most probably Israel but the parable teaches goodness if i am the tree and Jesus nurtures me. Tepo has not offered any interpretation but slammed me as wrong. There is nothing to say we have difference opinions as he does not offer his.

Here’s my thought:
1.I’m also not going to see an official interpretation of Catholic of the verse (don’t know where to find it), and if you’re only arguing on the matter of technical meaning of the word or title “gardener”, it’s just put me in more curiosity since you’re technically avoid the title of God to Jesus as one of the Trinity that all Christians firmly believe. To me you sound more like Muslim since you’re inclined to put the gardener as just a prophetic role.

I dont see this role as prophetic but one of intercession i respect that you see this different. for me prophetic is to speak for G-d and intercession is to speak to G-d. I see the gardener as seeking time to help the tree. I know you say your not big on quoting but if you could for me quote from the first post on the bold it would help me communicate better in the future. please don be obligated.

As a Catholic I believe that the landowner and the gardener hold the same power since they come from and share the same authority, just different in role.

well thats much as i see the power held by the land owner is given to the gardener who interceed for the tree.

The tree which supposed to give fruits, we all agree to believe that it represents all human being not only Christians,but since the Christians are the ones who has the message, we’re supposed to think that it’s mostly the Christians’ duty to bear fruits individually.

I agree that is good interpretation and relevant to us in this time. Point of my post we are not sinless as Islam is not so we are called to love not cut down. In the setting of the parable being delivered the Jews were being told they were running out of time to hear and bear fruit.

But if you want to say that Muslims can also be taken as tree, no problem, but remember that in the end if the tree doesn’t bear fruits, it will finally have to be cut down, same consequences to Christian individually.

Amen. Same apply to all humans.

1. You give the titles pbwh, the word be in the title supposed to mean (at least to me) that He was begging for peace from all of us like the prophets of Muslims. It’s like a short prayer of wishing good man peace, like I wish you to have peace. Would you give title to God pbwh ? No? Your previous explanation doesn’t give real answer.

from my understanding what you say here fits with peace be upon him, the word has peace in it and with it. indeed with G-d there be peace. i think you would be more comfortable with is, for me be covers was, is and will be. is can be temporary.

1. You’re accusing of Jesus being nailed in the cross implicitly showed a powerless nature of “God” and tolerated sin, this is a real contempt of the teaching of “Christianity”. I assume that whatever you have said that you’re having all the teachings of religion to be true is a baseless opinion, since evidently there are just real different core of teachings, and u’re not on our side. Tepo has just shown you that it’s not what Christian’s (not only Catholic) basic understanding and principle. To us Christian when He took the cross, He was fulfilling God’s mission that living in the world as fully human fully God, Jesus had shown us that He can be triumphant over death, the thing that makes all of us trembled and incline to sin. Did any other human being ever proved that he could be victorious over death? None, not even Muhammad.

please read as i wrote, never denied him having power thats the point, he could have just cut them down then and there but gave of himself. It is my point in this thread to be giving of ones self so that others may see truth.

1. Toleration of sin is not what Jesus taught. He also have said that we have to make efforts of becoming “perfect” since God is perfect. If toleration of sins means that as long as it doesn’t give much harm to other people, or to your body, then it’s ok to sin, that’s not what God teaches us. The problem is not toleration of sin, it’s God giving us opportunities to repent and first of all, to know that we all have sinned.

I apologised to the OP explaining i was thinking aloud if one does not think with open heart one does not change.
My thinking is that Jesus could have slammed al those who were wrong but he did not he showed love. My experience at CAF is often we dont change people by showing love. Protestant say milk for babes an d meat for me i see much of ramming meat down people that have not even been born of the spirit. i think it lacks the love Yeshua (pbwh) showed and called me to live as the way.

Are u saying perhaps that you’re living a fine life without ever hurting anybody intentionally or unintentionally makes your life sinless, then you’re in trouble of having pride and less gratitude to God. It’s also a matter of not what you don’t do, but it’s what you do.

I never intended to said that and i dont see how you got it from my post. Interesting is Church teaching on ignorance having acceptability though. I personally am with you in the last part here what i am inspired to do is encourage building up good in each other.

As our conversation is root on Tepo conversation with me it is a good illustration of discouragement verse encouragement.

Yeap it’s true but when you declare that you’re submitter of one true G-d, and all that previous comment you made (see the above list I wrote), where else can I turn to make conclusion?

that my intention is good and we are not understaning each other.

And well, I also see that most Christians do not choose the word “submit” (this is too much preferred by muslim),

conformaty of language to be in a group?

since Christians are called to be in a “father-children” relationship, God we believe doesn’t want to have a slave-master relationship, the focus has been shifted (not at all thrown away), so we’re called to love Him with our own free will, do all that pleasing God with our heart and soul, not as a submitter that will be punished if not doing so. We’re to love Him not out of fear. But if you choose to submit, certainly no problem for me,

we have differing view of submit love inspires desire to submit.

I said it’s a matter of your private relationship with God.

Thats the blessed part of you, just not the same for Tepo with me, the conversation you chimed in on. Your care and respect is what this thread was to foster.

Just see my above comment that I made the conclusion of your inclination.

have looked as best i can, shared best i can and seek clarification where i can. At this point if i were to make conclusions, it would be you may have read my first post with the pre conceived notion i was a Muslim or maybe Tepos.

Bless you pray well and stay well

PS do you and Tepo log in at the same time?

 

[Steven_John]

Jesus is not our “brother” He is our Master. .

I have been praying reading and reflecting, you may be right that he is not our brother but that is not what i said so should have never seen it as you posting against my wording.

please teach Catholic on these, Hebrews 2:11,12,17.

Bless you and peace

 

[spn82756]

Jesus is not our “brother” He is our Master. He is united with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Jesus is our Master…but He is also our brother. Unless of course Mary is not our spiritual mother

No, you did not write it, and you also do not understand it, because there is no separation. Jesus is not the gardener.

I guess he’s not a shepherd either.

 

[spn82756]

I have been praying reading and reflecting, you may be right that he is not our brother but that is not what i said so should have never seen it as you posting against my wording.

please teach Catholic on these, Hebrews 2:8-17.

Bless you and peace

Hebrews 2:8-12

8 subjecting all things under his feet." In “subjecting” all things (to him), he left nothing not “subject to him.” Yet at present we do not see “all things subject to him,”

9 but we do see Jesus “crowned with glory and honor” because he suffered death, he who “for a little while” was made “lower than the angels,” that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

10 For it was fitting that he, for whom and through whom all things exist, in bringing many children to glory, should make the leader to their salvation perfect through suffering.

11 He who consecrates and those who are being consecrated all have one origin. Therefore, he is not ashamed to call them “brothers,”

12 saying: “I will proclaim your name to my brothers, in the midst of the assembly I will praise you”;

13 and again: “I will put my trust in him”; and again: "Behold, I and the children God has given me.

14 Now since the children share in blood and flesh, he likewise shared in them, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,

15 and free those who through fear of death had been subject to slavery all their life.

16 Surely he did not help angels but rather the descendants of Abraham;

17 therefore, he had to become like his brothers in every way, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest before God to expiate the sins of the people.

Praise and all glory to Jesus my Master AND Brother!

 

[wwolverine]

Post # 34 has not had sorry

Hi Steven

I have neither understood this message nor the one with PBWH, could you be more simp-le in your explaination?

 

[dzheremi]

I must say, while what I can make out of Steven John’s posts seems well-meaning (I think?), the idea of wishing that peace be with Jesus Christ is a bit like wishing that light be with the sun. Very strange.

 

[TimeToGrow]

I have been praying reading and reflecting, you may be right that he is not our brother but that is not what i said so should have never seen it as you posting against my wording.

please teach Catholic on these, Hebrews 2:11,12,17.

Bless you and peace

Hello Steven John,

Here are some things that might help.

Matthew 12,

46 As he was yet speaking to the multitudes, behold his mother and his brethren stood without, seeking to speak to him. 47 And one said unto him: Behold thy mother and thy brethren stand without, seeking thee. 48 But he answering him that told him, said: Who is my mother, and who are my brethren? 49 And stretching forth his hand towards his disciples, he said: Behold my mother and my brethren. 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father, that is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.

We most certainly can be Jesus’s brother as we can be his sister and Mother. As we can also be his Friend. Whoever does the will of his Father in heaven will deserve such glory. He will acknowledge us as the Father acknowledges Him.

We often times can’t imagine the Glory that awaits. We don’t fully know what it means to be the Children of God. But whatever it will be? It will be something worth dying for.

Often times we are things in relation to other things in scripture. To a Father were Children. To a son we are a Brother or a sister and to the Holy Spirit we are beloved. And in all we are the Children of God created in his image and his Likeness.

Peace and God bless.

 

[TEPO]

Are we really supposed to think of Jesus as our “Brother” though? If so, then why do we bow during the Nicene Creed, when we say: “By the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary and became man”…?

I can understand that Jesus is our “Brother” in the flesh, but spiritually He is Divine. Jesus was without sin… I believe that only when I die, and become a Saint, will I be Jesus’ Brother… Just like Romans 8:29 states: “For those he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, so that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.”… This passage is talking about “those he foreknew” which were the Jews of OT who were waiting in prison (hell) for Jesus to save them via crucifixion… They were His brothers and they were passed-on into eternity…

I view Jesus as a friend, mentor, master, Lord, etc… But not brother… I am not perfect enough to be Jesus’ brother…

CCC 460
79 "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God."80 “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.”

Until I become God (Saint), I will not be totally Jesus’ brother.

Am I wrong…?

 

[Steven_John]

Hi Steven

I have neither understood this message nor the one with PBWH, could you be more simp-le in your explaination?

Yeshua (pbwh), or if you prefer The Word, Peace was, is and will be (Be) with him / it.

 

[Steven_John]

I must say, while what I can make out of Steven John’s posts seems well-meaning (I think?), the idea of wishing that peace be with Jesus Christ is a bit like wishing that light be with the sun. Very strange.

Its not a wish its a statement, the (w) is with not wish, sorry thought i offered this in previous posts.

Bless you

 

[Steven_John]

Until I become God (Saint), I will not be totally Jesus’ brother.

Bro i aint quoting you to start more bickering.

The way i understand it is your word totally is the key.

My Father is not bound by time He sees me as i am to Him as i will be, Yeshusa (pbwh) is a completion or return to Adam (pbuh) state we are in this time works in progress.
Being incomplete does not deny who i will be.

I get on my knee before my Brother for i am not as I am to Our Father, he is and i submit to him as you say my master.

How blessed am i to have my master be My Brother. My master loves me and is willing to give it all up so I will be what I will be. A master of a dean will not love and give themselves up for me, a master who owns a slave will not die for that slave but My Brother loves me as Our Father loves him so will lay down himself for me, wow, praise be to G-d.

For me to be what you are really seeking, you need to be open to see.

I love my Brother Tepo very much, i see him in glorious light of love, you can deny this, you have free will, then you will no longer be my Brother in the way of our true family, but i will encourage you and beg My Father to send others to help that you know who you are or for this time will be. It gets hard for me when you shovel so much at me, i am sorry i did not love you better. I have prayed to Our Father to send more to love you and seems to me He does as only He does.

Our Father forgives our sins if we are truly repentant, satan wants you to be less and will hold you to a lesser image by belittling you with your sin.

IMO humility is not so much being mindful of our sinful state but being accepting of Our Fathers view of us.

In peace and with love,

When i was waked a nun went out of her way to pray for me and chat with me, she was really special she looked into me and saw a little light and went out of her way to fan the flame. i dont think she cared about the sins that were sourounding me. She asked me once why i was so reserved about the Catholic church. I had got form my Catholic education that Yeshsu (pbwh) was My Father, i dont say they taught this but for a kid Catholic doctrine is very confusing. I said to he i was holding back because i did not feel Yeshua (pbwh) was My Father but felt he was My Brother, she replied and what is wrong with that she took a stumbling block from before me and a fire burned up huge and fast in me, i did not want to hate or see as less anyone.

I have tears running down my face as i type this.

She was Yeshua (pbwh) to me by looking for him in me, she did not look for satan in me.

I reckon you can only love satan out of people who have not waked. If you try and beat / correct him, ie focus on what is wrong with some one he loves it, its his way not our way. yes among fellow wakeds at times we rebuke him and it works, difference being after waking he cant get in but only gets close.

I praise G-d she loved me enough to look at me this way, it was a part of my life changing but it has opened a door so i could love others and look for Yeshus (pbwh) in all humans with out needing to see religions, social status, addictions or nationalities etc. Through her i was moved from justice to mercy.

She was one of my two witnesses, of course after being called, chosen and me offering my self to die for you, there are many more witnesses that are willing to see me.

She nurtured me the fig tree that in justice could have been cut down.

Brother Tepo if you can gleam a ray of goodness for this thread let it fan the goodness I see given you, you have awesome zeal for Our Fathers house and the kingdom here, something oft lacking in Catholics where i live, if here they were a little more Tepo in each of us we may see Catholic revival.

“I will be what I will be”, you have free will so choose who you see

 

[TimeToGrow]

Are we really supposed to think of Jesus as our “Brother” though? If so, then why do we bow during the Nicene Creed, when we say: “By the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary and became man”…?

I can understand that Jesus is our “Brother” in the flesh, but spiritually He is Divine. Jesus was without sin… I believe that only when I die, and become a Saint, will I be Jesus’ Brother… Just like Romans 8:29 states: "For those he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, so that he might be the firstborn among many brothers."… This passage is talking about “those he foreknew” which were the Jews of OT who were waiting in prison (hell) for Jesus to save them via crucifixion… They were His brothers and they were passed-on into eternity…

I view Jesus as a friend, mentor, master, Lord, etc… But not brother… I am not perfect enough to be Jesus’ brother…

CCC 460
79 "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God."80 “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.”

Until I become God (Saint), I will not be totally Jesus’ brother.

Am I wrong…?

No you are exactly right.

He is by Law of the Flesh the oldest of the divine children in the divine family as a Flesh man. Born first from above as all God’s Children. A new Creature… By the Law of inheritance he is the first to recieve that inheritance. “Firstfruit” It isn’t our job to be perfect as he is. There can only be one true Christ as a son of God who was eternally in the bosom of the Father… But he showed us to do the will of his Father. His mercy overshadowed our corruption. As he told the Apostles you shall surely drink from the cup I drink. He came to do the will of his Father and show his Fathers will. As a Son of God first born from above our Lord became a flesh man. With two will’s. One divine in a will obediant to the Father. Christ possessed two will’s by the nature of he was begotten from the bosom of the Father.

As the Popes say, to be truly man is to be truly God. Christ is true man and true God. Because God took upon himself the flesh of man, he showed that God isn’t less for it. Neither do we have to be.

Is it not written he called gods to whom the word of God came? It came to us while in our flesh. God thru his creation is begetting Children. Who are Christ Brothers and sisters. Those who believe and do the will of his Father. Those who follow his example.

But we have not reach the full nature of the glory that awaits for those who will be judged as faithful.

Peace and God bless.

 

[Steven_John]

I was in another thread and posted some of this trying to show we maybe in contradiction to our G-d

I say we as I am sure I too am guilty.

I ask of the spirit of some of our questions as it poses “what do you believe” is not genuine because we argue “what we say you should believe as we do from the source”.

If I ask what do you believe the Quran teaches, I should have no way of correcting you as it is not about what it says or what I believe it means but it is what you believe.

Example. I am not quoting this to challenge the poster individually but it typifies my point.

If you say the Muslims are terrorists for following the Quran, they will say you have taken it out of contexts

The Muslim referred to in this statement does not believe the Quran is to make people terrorists.

In this case both the Muslim and I are both seeking to believe what G-d wants us to.

Both say G-d does not want for us to be terrorists.

I might interoperate the Quran that its source wants its readers to be terrorist.

Give the Muslim in this quote believes of the Quran what my G-d wants the Muslim has the G-d inspired interoperation of the Quran.

Even if I open open-mindedly try to see as they see and dont see who am I to say they are wrong given they have good fruit from it and I have the rotten fruit.

Are we for G-d and His truth or for our own being exulted above other sinners?

Should a better response not be like “wow i find it unbelievable that you get that from what we have read but i thank and praise G-d you see His truth and we are one in this point”

 

[Steven_John]

I personally am aspiring looking for right virtues in you.

I feel this was the teaching of all messengers and Yeshua (pbwh) bible narrations personify this.

The Saduces and Pharisees were big on the written and Yeshua (pbwh) was big on the virtues.

I am asking myself what am i big on?

What is popular in this section at CAF?

I discern the popular here is the need for you to be professing being on my “team” not how you are playing showing the team you are playing for.

In politics the numbers win regardless to outcomes.

In My Fathers kingdom what you seek as outcome wins even if you have to stand alone against the popular.

I have little faith my posts will help bring big change,
absolute faith
some of you will change for ever,
some for a little time,
some will agree and have no change,
some will see this as wrong.

I pray i be blessed to live in applauding glorifying right virtue, before your religion or text.

To serve Him like he did.

“I will be what I will be”, you have free will so choose who you see

“Almighty Father / Allah bless us with love and strength to support and build support for this message to be a corner stone of CAF to the Glory of You and You in yours”

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Catholics for Muslims, eh? I guess Jews for Jesus didn’t work out. What’s next? Seventh Day Adventists for Jainists?

 

[grace_singh]

i pray that this is both Orthodox, and helpful to all involved here. it’s a small article on the Christology of the Bible, and whom Jesus claims to be.

no one can deny that Jesus is not God, the Father. and that the Father Almighty is unseen. neither is God the Father a man, or created. 

yet the basis of Christian thought about Jesus Christ is not that Jesus is God the Father or claimed to be. nor is it that God is a human being. 

rather the basis is that the Lord Jesus Christ existed before humanity, and before creation, something He affirms in John 17:5. that the Lord Jesus is One with God the Father, and the same as Him, even while being distinct (John 5:20-23, John 14:6-9). 

and that in history, in Bethlehem, the image, likeness, and totality of God the Father was born in flesh, as a Man. not that God the Father was or became human, but that as and through His Son, the Almighty visited His people. 

God the Father still reigned and spoke in heaven and all places while Christ walked the earth. and He also visited, healed, saved, and spoke to His peoples through the Lord Christ, in Judea, 2,000 years ago. 

the distinction between God the Father and His incarnate Word, the Son, is something many fail to make. what the Bible does say is that the Lord Jesus has always been, has always been One with the Father in a unique and ontological way, and that there has never been a time when He has not been God (John 1:1-2, 14).

 

[Steven_John]

Catholics for Muslims, eh? I guess Jews for Jesus didn’t work out. What’s next? Seventh Day Adventists for Jainists?

I really don’t follow your post unless you are a thread title critic.

Does your post connect some how to others?

Bless you

 

[rikkk1958]

StevenJohn,

I have tried to understand your post no. 1 and it tells me about your intentions to educate us with your personal opinion of love, sin, and forgiveness. While you are quoting verses or parables in particular, I am afraid you might get carried away with the lesson you might get from it.

The love, sin and forgiveness are all defined in the whole story of the Holy Bible and not from one particular story. The parables that Jesus taught us are lessons in life of simple people like you and me. We have to understand that God is the absolute Word and actions, which means that no one like you and me will never be able to know and understand what God wants to do.

For your thread, Christians or Catholics know the meaning of love Jesus taught and that includes loving not only the Muslims but all human beings. This does not mean that we us Catholics will not criticize Islam. We criticize because of the truth.