Catholics...For Your Advise.

[Javl]

My dear brother Mosacked,

You claim to “not want to insult,” then you insult. Your entire purpose here is to insult, because you feel yourself to be superior. It is the way you put your “thinking” into “letters” which has a prescribed meaning, it is the way of hatred. You quote God’s word in ways in which your intent is clear, to inflict damage to your foe. Jesus does not teach hatred, nor does He instruct us to cause bitterness or to use His Word as a sword.

By the way, me pointing out your insult does not say I am too sensitive, however it does point out your arrogance and ignorance. Both of these traits are dangerous, but together they can, and have been, deadly; both physically and spiritually.

I have to say that I appreciate the replies from ZacIsaiah, Ralphinal and Gabriel12. All of you can be sure that I read ALL of your posts. I do not post this question in an attempt to insult…it is really just putting my ‘thinking’ into letters.

Mosacked
Firstly, I must state that I came to the conclusion that sacraments themselves save the soul because that was the persistent & prevalent position undertaken by almost all the catholics I have spoken to so far. So yes, your clarification here really helps. The next time, a catholic who attempts to excuse non-compliance to scripture and tells me that the sacrament themselves save, I’ll refer them to you.

Lapey
Firstly, I would say you probably haven’t had many meaningful conversations with Catholics (notice this word when used as a proper noun referring to specific people is CAPITALIZED) because all of your effort and emotion is about proving the Church wrong; therefore you will turn off many of the people who you claim to want to learn from. The fact that you purposely left that name in lower case is evidence of your attempt to demean Catholics. I see it as deliberate by your use of the “caps lock” key whenever it is useful to you, you know kind of the way you use scripture; when it helps your game.

Next time a Catholic attempts to “excuse non-compliance to scripture”, you should listen to him and research what is being said and how it applies to scripture. Chances are you will learn something. The Church does not contradict what scripture teaches in any way. But one must realize one’s motives and preconceived notions to see where the truth is. What you do when reading and studying scripture is called “proof texting”. You read into scripture what you want it to mean to obtain a predetermined outcome. Scripture is not a weapon, it is medicine that heals! You quote 1 John as a weapon; I will quote 1 John as a warning such as God gave Ezekiel 3:18-19.

1 John 4:20, “If anyone says, “I love God,” but hates his brother, he is a liar; for whoever does not love a brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.”

This verse is pretty much self explanatory, don’t you think….brother?

Mosacked
Secondly, the analogy of the monkey-human is the closest analogy I can think of. So, far I have not received a convincingly satisfactory reply on this except for the one by ZacIsaiah who replied that it is MERELY a title. Yet it is a title too big for my digestion, because to me, God has no beginning and so He cannot have a mother.

Lapey
You already have the answer that you seek, so why ask? No matter what we Catholics say you won’t believe or listen to anything we have to say. What’s the point? I say your point is hate; there are many web sites that you can find others who also hate Catholics, why not go there?

*Mosacked
Finally, before we can conclude that the Church is above scripture, we must first PROVE beyond a doubt that it is the True Church led personally by Jesus. Since that cannot be achieved, how then can I agree with the stand that this church has the right to over-write???

Let’s clear it one step at a time.*

Lapey
Finally, the only person spewing this type of ignorance is you; the Catholic Church is not above scripture, never has She stated this nor will She attempt to make such a statement. The fact that Jesus taught the twelve and the eleven remaining started the Church that you disagree with can be traced; this has been achieved, you just choose to ignore history. One has to be open minded to attempt to see why others may believe that differs from your beliefs. You don’t have to agree with other views, but you must be respectful, which you have not.

A very good post. But I doubt if he will pay attention to it. He’s too self-centered at present to recognize it. He seems to be proof of the danger of sola scriptura. We all have tried to explain to him, but he insists that he is right and we are wrong. All we can do is to show him the charity and love that Jesus commanded us to do. God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Anna_Scott]

Anna, as I have quoted you previously direct from Scripture, we need NOBODY to teach us. . .

Mosacked,

Scripture must be read in context of both the O.T. and the N.T. I would encourage you to start by reading the entire New Testament.

You are taking 1 John 2:27 entirely out of context. This passage is a warning against false teachings of the antichrist:

1 John 2 (ESV):
18Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

20But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all have knowledge. 21I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth.

22Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. 24Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is the promise that he made to us— eternal life.

26I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. 27But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.

The Holy Spirit does teach all things and bring to remembrance all that Christ spoke to his Apostles. That does not mean that no teachers are required.

John 14:
25"These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26But the Helper,** the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.** 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid.

The Apostles taught the message of Christ. and “many of those who had heard the word believed.”

Acts 4:
1And as they were speaking to the people, the priests and the captain of the temple and the Sadducees came upon them, 2greatly annoyed because they were teaching the people and proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection from the dead. 3And they arrested them and put them in custody until the next day, for it was already evening. 4But many of those who had heard the word believed, and the number of the men came to about five thousand.

The Apostles were freed from prison by an angel of the Lord, who said, “Go and stand in the temple and speak to the people all the words of this Life.” When the Apostles heard this, “they entered the temple at daybreak and began to teach.”

Acts 5:
17But the high priest rose up, and all who were with him (that is, the party of the Sadducees), and filled with jealousy 18they arrested the apostles and put them in the public prison. 19But during the night an angel of the Lord opened the prison doors and brought them out, and said, 20"Go and stand in the temple and speak to the people all the words of this Life." 21And when they heard this, they entered the temple at daybreak and began to teach. . .

**27And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest questioned them, 28saying, “We strictly charged you not to teach in this name, yet here you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and you intend to bring this man’s blood upon us.” 29But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men. **30 The God of our fathers raised Jesus, whom you killed by hanging him on a tree. 31God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

There were prophets and teachers in the Church at Antioch.

Acts 13:
1Now there were in the church at Antioch prophets and teachers, Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen a member of the court of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3Then after fasting and praying they laid their hands on them and sent them off.

Timothy was sent to remind the Church of the ways of Christ, as taught in every Church.

1 Corinthians 4:
15For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel. 16I urge you, then, be imitators of me. 17That is why I sent you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach them everywhere in every church.

The Body of Christ has many members, including “teachers.”

1 Corinthians 12:
27Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. 28And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.

Continued Next Post

 

[Anna_Scott]

Continued----To Mosacked

Again–please read these passages in the context of the entire N.T.–which means you do actually have to read the N.T.

A warning against “teaching any different doctrine,” and against wandering into “vain discussion.” (Very appropriate for this Thread)

1 Timothy 1(ESV):
3 As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine, 4nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship from God that is by faith. 5The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6**Certain persons, by swerving from these, have wandered away into vain discussion, **7desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions.

An “overseer” must be able to teach.

1 Timothy 3:
1The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. 2Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,

More on teaching.

1 Timothy 4:
6 If you put these things before the brothers, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, being trained in the words of the faith and of the good doctrine that you have followed. 7Have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths. Rather train yourself for godliness; 8for while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come. 9The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance. 10For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

11**Command and teach** these things. 12 Let no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity. 13Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation, to teaching. 14 Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophecy when the council of elders laid their hands on you. 15Practice these things, immerse yourself in them, so that all may see your progress. 16 Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.

2 Timothy 2:
1You then, my child, be strengthened by the grace that is in Christ Jesus, 2and what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. 3 Share in suffering as a good soldier of Christ Jesus.

The “Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach. .”

2 Timothy 2:
22So flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. 23Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. 24And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, 25correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, 26and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

More on teaching.

Titus 2:
1But as for you, teach what accords with sound doctrine.

Hebrews 5:
11About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child.

Ephesians 4:
11And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,

14**so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. **15Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.

1 Timothy 2:
7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle ( I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

With all due respect, Mosacked, I have to ask: Have you read anything in the New Testament, besides 1 John 2:27?

Denying the call to “teach” the Gospel of Christ is in opposition to the very words of the New Testament. We do, indeed, need teachers.

Anna

 

[Bill_Pick]

Because Communication <> Obedience.

• Did not even Satan spoke with God about Job? Does it mean Satan obeys God? Sorry, but your questions are seriously immature.

.

MOS, You do know it is rude to not answer a person question and ana has ask you a question with No answer,WHY WILL YOU NOT ANSWER Ana

 

[Anna_Scott]

Well, I guess Jesus was wrong when he told the Apostles “Going therefore, teach ye all nations . . . teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you” (Matthew 19-20). This teaching is infallible: “And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world” (ibid.).

Blow the dust off of your Bible, please, and read it.

Exactly right!

In my list of Scripture, I left out this most important command of Christ. I had the words in my thoughts, but then forgot to add it in. Thank you for reminding us.

Indeed, denying the need to “teach” is denying the very command of Christ and the instructions given throughout the New Testament.

Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

MOS, You do know it is rude to not answer a person question and ana has ask you a question with No answer,WHY WILL YOU NOT ANSWER Ana

Bill,

Sadly, I doubt I will get a direct answer.

Anna

 

[Tomster]

Thanks Anna, I’m not quitting, just don’t wish to cause too much hurt to some ‘sensitive’ people.

Irish,

you have on numerous occasions quoted scripture out of whack.

Let me just ask…if you are not yet a disciple, would you be anointed? And if you’re not yet anointed, are the communication lines even open??? If you don’t know the person and the person doesn’t know you, how do you two talk???

The verse you quoted clearly refers to teaching those who have YET to know God-Jesus.

For those who have already been anointed, they communicate with God directly. See 1 John 2:27 again.

.

“You have on numerous occasions quoted scripture out of whack.” - Mosacked

Very interesting remark Mosacked. For someone who does not believe in an authentic teaching authority you sure sound like someone who is attempting to be one.

Are you aware of the fact that the scriptures are oral traditions, teachings, of the Church that were written down? (psst., the Church came into being before the New Testament was completed)

The only certain guide as to the inspiration and canonicity of all the books of scripture is the authoritative pronouncement of the Church. The Church is the divinely appointed custodian of revelation. It is her office to preserve not merely the letter of the scriptures, but also their meaning. The Church is the authentic and infallible interpreter of scripture not you Mosacked.

 

[Tomster]

Bill,

Sadly, I doubt I will get a direct answer.

Anna

Sadly indeed Anna. When dealing with the likes of Mosacked never expect a direct answer to your questions. The reason, they simply do not have an answer. All they can say in regards to a reply is what they are feeling at the present time. Since they reject the infallible teaching authority of the Church most of them go from congregation to congregation trying to find a fallible interpreter of scriptures to “tickle their ears.” Then, after not hearing what they want to hear, they eventually retreat into their own private world and attempt to interpret scriptures on their own, a daunting task to say the least. They have painted themselves into a prideful corner and do not have a way out. They are to be prayed for.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Sadly indeed Anna. When dealing with the likes of Mosacked never expect a direct answer to your questions. The reason, they simply do not have an answer. All they can say in regards to a reply is what they are feeling at the present time. Since they reject the infallible teaching authority of the Church most of them go from congregation to congregation trying to find a fallible interpreter of scriptures to “tickle their ears.” Then, after not hearing what they want to hear, they eventually retreat into their own private world and attempt to interpret scriptures on their own, a daunting task to say the least. They have painted themselves into a prideful corner and do not have a way out. They are to be prayed for.

Tomster,

As a “disenchanted” Protestant, arguments, such as those of Mosacked, are very disturbing. I am finding, the pursuit of God’s truth can be a rocky road. The vast disagreements within Protestantism are beyond disturbing; and their arguments make me weary.

Anna

 

[Tomster]

Tomster,

As a “disenchanted” Protestant, arguments, such as those of Mosacked, are very disturbing. I am finding, the pursuit of God’s truth can be a rocky road. The vast disagreements within Protestantism are beyond disturbing; and their arguments make me weary.

Anna

Anna,

Stick around Catholic Answers and you will get the answers you are searching for. I’ll be willing to bet that the answers you are looking for have already been established by the Church.

Just a suggestion, find a good RCIA class in your area. Once there, ask questions. Above all else, pray.

 

[exoflare]

I don’t think that Mosacked was giving Protestantism a bad name. I think those questions were honest ( you should see some of the ones I’ve gotten ). He wants to understand what Catholicism is about and probably clear up some misunderstandings.

Okay, then. Let’s see what he says in one of those rare moments where he forgets to put on the “objectivity” charade…

Mosacked:

I have found it difficult to convince either way without causing too much discomfort.

Right out of the horse’s mouth. He’s not here to “understand” anything, just to try and convince people. (like it wasn’t obvious enough already) Case closed. Now will you guys please stop wasting your time to feed this troll?

 

[Anna_Scott]

Anna,

Stick around Catholic Answers and you will get the answers you are searching for. I’ll be willing to bet that the answers you are looking for have already been established by the Church.

Just a suggestion, find a good RCIA class in your area. Once there, ask questions. Above all else, pray.

Tomster,

I do pray, and I carefully consider the words spoken on the forums. At age 54, it is difficult to shed a lifetime of indoctrination. I pray the Lord will be patient with me.

Anna

 

[rinnie]

No offense I hope, just trying to make Catholics ‘see’ how some of us think.

1 – If[SIGN] the Sacraments themselves can save[/SIGN], doesn’t that mean that if a deviously evil man were to also partake of the Holy Communion, he would join you in your heaven? (please don’t reply and say he wouldn’t attend because even the evil Pharisees went for baptism at the Jordan river)

2 – If Mary was the mother of God, just because she gave birth to Jesus who is God, doesn’t that mean that if you put the foetus of humans into the body of a monkey, then that monkey would be the mother of humans? (no offense, but it’s the closest analogy I can think of).

3 – If the Catholic church is above scripture like what some people here say to explain why they do not follow certain scriptural teachings, wouldn’t that be refuting what God taught? So, is God the master or the disciple?

Hope to see some clear and objective answers.

.

Okay lets start with the sacraments that can save us. Why would our dear Lord Jesus give us sacraments if not to save us. What would be the reason then?

Can A sacrament save us. Sure it can. What is a Sacrament. An outward sign instituted by CHRIST to GIVE GRACE. So lets address first of all this silly unreal question. Can a Sacrament save you. Well let me ask you this. Can Gods Grace save you? Then there you Go. To say that we cannot be saved by the Grace of God is the most unreal statement I have heard here yet.

Second question is an insult to my intelligence. So I will let that one go.

The third question. The CC is run by the power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God himself so how could God trump himself is beyond me:shrug:

 

[crowtherkidsmom]

Goodness. If you have to start by saying “no offense”…

Just a suggestion: perhaps you could form your three points in the nature of nonconfrontational questions, and await answers from learned Catholics.
Posts framed the way you have, regardless of which side you are on, tends to make people defensive. Hope that makes sense.
Jon

Sometimes it is very difficult to understand what exactly a person is trying to get across when we read something in a post. When I first read the original post, I thought “oh no… he/she is trying to open a can of worms”… just remember there are people in these forums whose first language is not english and that they are trying to get across what they want to say, but may use the wrong words. It is impossible to see the heart of a person typing the words, and that is why I usually like talking to people face-to–face much better.

What I saw when I read this original post a second time was someone who was trying to learn about another person’s faith and was trying to get across what he wanted to know about in the best possible way he/she could think of to describe it.

 

[Lapey]

A very good post. But I doubt if he will pay attention to it. He’s too self-centered at present to recognize it. He seems to be proof of the danger of sola scriptura. We all have tried to explain to him, but he insists that he is right and we are wrong. All we can do is to show him the charity and love that Jesus commanded us to do. God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Thanks…its kind of like beating your head against a brick wall. No matter how much we bleed, the brick is still brick!!!

 

[crowtherkidsmom]

I understand totally that the sacraments can save us… it is what is also believed by us Lutherans… not trying to offend anyone and I apologize in advance if anyone reads this the wrong way.

One question: do the sacraments still save if they are taken (as in the Eucharist) by a person who does not hold the fundamental beliefs of the Trinity and Jesus being the Son of God? If a person goes for Eucharist (or Holy Communion) whose heart is not clean and who has not asked forgiveness, still saved by the sacraments?

I am simply asking this to clarify something that I was taught as a youth. That it is “By grace, by faith, by Your Word alone” that we are saved and not just the sacraments that we partake in. We are taught to think the best of everyone and thus would never dream that someone would soil the Eucharistic Table by coming to it with a heart of an unbeliever, but it does happen.

 

[rinnie]

I understand totally that the sacraments can save us… it is what is also believed by us Lutherans… not trying to offend anyone and I apologize in advance if anyone reads this the wrong way.

One question: do the sacraments still save if they are taken (as in the Eucharist) by a person who does not hold the fundamental beliefs of the Trinity and Jesus being the Son of God? If a person goes for Eucharist (or Holy Communion) whose heart is not clean and who has not asked forgiveness, still saved by the sacraments?

I am simply asking this to clarify something that I was taught as a youth. That it is “By grace, by faith, by Your Word alone” that we are saved and not just the sacraments that we partake in. We are taught to think the best of everyone and thus would never dream that someone would soil the Eucharistic Table by coming to it with a heart of an unbeliever, but it does happen.

If a person goes to Holy Communion in a state of Mortal sin they have condemn themself. That is why you must first go to RCIA before going to communion. If you are in a state of mortal sin you must first go to confession and get absolution from the Priest.

 

[FightingFat]

No offense I hope, just trying to make Catholics ‘see’ how some of us think.

1 – If the Sacraments themselves can save, doesn’t that mean that if a deviously evil man were to also partake of the Holy Communion, he would join you in your heaven? (please don’t reply and say he wouldn’t attend because even the evil Pharisees went for baptism at the Jordan river)

2 – If Mary was the mother of God, just because she gave birth to Jesus who is God, doesn’t that mean that if you put the foetus of humans into the body of a monkey, then that monkey would be the mother of humans? (no offense, but it’s the closest analogy I can think of).

3 – If the Catholic church is above scripture like what some people here say to explain why they do not follow certain scriptural teachings, wouldn’t that be refuting what God taught? So, is God the master or the disciple?

Hope to see some clear and objective answers.

.

At this stage, some non-Catholic Christians seem so far off the mark, they can actually post a thread like this and think it actually makes sense. Sometimes I despair!

 

[Lapey]

Okay lets start with the sacraments that can save us. Why would our dear Lord Jesus give us sacraments if not to save us. What would be the reason then?

Can A sacrament save us. Sure it can. What is a Sacrament. An outward sign instituted by CHRIST to GIVE GRACE. So lets address first of all this silly unreal question. Can a Sacrament save you. Well let me ask you this. Can Gods Grace save you? Then there you Go. To say that we cannot be saved by the Grace of God is the most unreal statement I have heard here yet.

Second question is an insult to my intelligence. So I will let that one go.

The third question. The CC is run by the power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God himself so how could God trump himself is beyond me:shrug:

I agree with you, and I’ll give a simple example of why.

I went to a training seminar recently given by a priest, he happens to be the canonist for our diocese, and the topic was the sacrament of matrimony. His first statement was a question, “do you believe that salvation is contained within the sacrament of matrimony?” To give you a heads up, this was a group of deacons, and I am a candidate to be ordained by the end of next year.

No one answered and he exploded. He explained exactly as you did, if Gods Grace flows through this sacrament, then salvation is contained within it; as you know we are saved by Grace! We cannot do anything to save ourselves!

I guess it is semantics; sacramental Grace doesn’t replace the sacrifice in which Jesus bought our redemption. This Grace is the redemption in which Jesus bought for us on the Cross!!!

This Grace, contained within the Church Sacraments, is the free gift of salvation in which Jesus offers us, it is our decision to accept it all or just a fraction of His gift. I receive Graces daily from Christ within my marriage. This was not always true, however. Not the part that the saving Grace was not there, the fact that I wasn’t open to receiving these Graces was the reason my marriage was mediocre. My marriage is stronger now than I ever thought it could be. My wife and I openly talk about helping each other accept this Grace. I tell my wife and treat her in a manner in which she knows I want her to be there in the Kingdom with me, I think she wants the same for me…I hope…lol

I hope I explained my thoughts well.

 

[Anna_Scott]

I agree with you, and I’ll give a simple example of why.

I went to a training seminar recently given by a priest, he happens to be the canonist for our diocese, and the topic was the sacrament of matrimony. His first statement was a question, “do you believe that salvation is contained within the sacrament of matrimony?” To give you a heads up, this was a group of deacons, and I am a candidate to be ordained by the end of next year.

No one answered and he exploded. He explained exactly as you did, if Gods Grace flows through this sacrament, then salvation is contained within it; as you know we are saved by Grace! We cannot do anything to save ourselves!

I guess it is semantics; sacramental Grace doesn’t replace the sacrifice in which Jesus bought our redemption. This Grace is the redemption in which Jesus bought for us on the Cross!!!

This Grace, contained within the Church Sacraments, is the free gift of salvation in which Jesus offers us, it is our decision to accept it all or just a fraction of His gift. I receive Graces daily from Christ within my marriage. This was not always true, however. Not the part that the saving Grace was not there, the fact that I wasn’t open to receiving these Graces was the reason my marriage was mediocre. My marriage is stronger now than I ever thought it could be. My wife and I openly talk about helping each other accept this Grace. I tell my wife and treat her in a manner in which she knows I want her to be there in the Kingdom with me, I think she wants the same for me…I hope…lol

I hope I explained my thoughts well.

Very interesting post.

Anna