"Catholics gave us the Bible": Is this a true statement?

[NotWorthy]

:tiphat: Some authority had to tell the world what it was. It is in the rejection of that authority that problems (30,000 and counting) arise.

My opening bid is 5. It will be less than 5 posts before someone questions the “30,000 and counting” in an attempt to de-rail the thread.

 

[po18guy]

My opening bid is 5. It will be less than 5 posts before someone questions the “30,000 and counting” in an attempt to de-rail the thread.

I wish that the truth was not so controversial in our time…

And too late to edit it out.

 

[Believe_God]

:tiphat: I know that non-Catholic/Orthodox have a sense of ownership in the bible, since that is all they have to base their faith upon. However, each of their sources for biblical history and interpretation has a man’s name on it, e.g. Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, and many names who live yet today. When Catholics speak of the formation of the bible, we place the Name of the Holy Spirit upon it. Like they say: The “Sacred Table of Contents” did not fall from the sky. Some authority had to tell the world what it was. It is in the rejection of that authority that problems (30,000 and counting) arise.

I take objection to the fact that the RCC says it did its changing of adding to God’s Word by way of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is God indwelling in the hearts of men and women who have given their lives to him and made him Lord of their life (John 3-All of 3). They choose to follow Him and to be guided by His Word and His spirit.
The men who presided at the Council of Trent, as leaders of the RCC, stated that they did not care what God’s word said. They were going to add their own traditions, laws, dogmas, etc. They were not being led by the Holy Spirit. This was blaspheym against God and what he spoke in his Word in Deut. and Rev. that says not to change or add to his word.
Yes, many other men did read the Word for themselves and separted from the Word of God the portions that the church had added to the Word. After people read the Scriptures for ourselves, they realise which understanding of Scripture from the noted scholars, they relate to the best. But none of those intreptations add dogmas and traditions, etc., or blantely change the Word. They simply separted what God said from what the RCC added to the Bible with its books describing what the RCC is to be all about.
There is a truth in God’s Word beyond what the RCC wants its followers to accept.

 

[po18guy]

I take objection to the fact that the RCC says it did its changing of adding to God’s Word by way of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is God indwelling in the hearts of men and women who have given their lives to him and made him Lord of their life (John 3-All of 3). They choose to follow Him and to be guided by His Word and His spirit.

An interesting, and typically sola scriptura viewpoint. Did Jesus found a church? Yes, or no?

The men who presided at the Council of Trent, as leaders of the RCC, stated that they did not care what God’s word said. They were going to add their own traditions, laws, dogmas, etc. They were not being led by the Holy Spirit. This was blaspheym against God and what he spoke in his Word in Deut. and Rev. that says not to change or add to his word.
Yes, many other men did read the Word for themselves and separted from the Word of God the portions that the church had added to the Word. After people read the Scriptures for ourselves, they realise which understanding of Scripture from the noted scholars, they relate to the best. But none of those intreptations add dogmas and traditions, etc., or blantely change the Word. They simply separted what God said from what the RCC added to the Bible with its books describing what the RCC is to be all about.
There is a truth in God’s Word beyond what the RCC wants its followers to accept.

I’m very sorry, but Jack Chick is not a credible scripture scholar. Please explain how the Holy Spirit leads 30,000+ Protestant denominations into division! Answer this, and we can have a conversation.

 

[po18guy]

My opening bid is 5. It will be less than 5 posts before someone questions the “30,000 and counting” in an attempt to de-rail the thread.

We have a winner! It’s NotWorthy once again! And, it was not even two posts, but a record setting single post!
Congratulations! :clapping: :bowdown: :dancing: :extrahappy:

 

[Believe_God]

An interesting, and typically sola scriptura viewpoint. Did Jesus found a church? Yes, or no?

Of course he did. But not the Catholic Church. Why would he go from being Jew to Catholic? God never changes. He is the same yesterday, and forever.

---

I’m very sorry, but Jack Chick is not a credible scripture scholar. Please explain how the Holy Spirit leads 30,000+ Protestant denominations into division! Answer this, and we can have a conversation.

Who is Jack Chick? If this is a name for me then, I admit I may not be a scholar but are you a scholar? Guess not or you would see through the church and its pagan teachings.
I have a most strong point in my disagreement with the church fathers saying they are led by the Holy Spirit.
If they are led by the Holy Spirit then they would never have said they did not care what God had told us. They would never dream of making things up from: Mary being assumed into heaven like Jesus, to her being alive right now and the one to pray to for her to interceed to her Son, or adding pagan beads (the rosary). and teaching the people that if they pray to her or wear the sacpular they will not perish. Lies. And more lies.
It does not take a scholar to see through the lies and false teachings.
These open ways for Satan to come in and he comes to steal, kill, and destroy everyone. As long a people want to buy into the lies the church feds them then Satan is winning and prayers are not being answered.
If you believe you prayed on the rosary and your prayer was answered it was because God answered it. Because he is a God of forgiveness and Grace. His mercy for his renews every day.
He is still trying to reach those who are bing held in bondage. Bondage by a church that sells Mary as a white women. Think about this…Mary was born of the tribe of David, and David’s grandmother Ruth was a dark skinned women of the Moabites.
Icons lie.
Prayer beads can not hold promises that God never gave to us. Man made invention of the rosary came from St. Dominic in 1214 AD and was approved by Pope Innocent III. Whenever people start to fall away the church comes up with something to attract people.They are not thinking clearly. They go with what looks and sounds good. Not what God tells us. Which is to stay focused on Him. Stay God centered. Don’t be double minded. Don’t beluke warm about me or I will spew you out of my mouth.
Mary, being a Jew would never have seen a rosary…or prayed on one. It was not invented for church use until she had been dead for 1,000 years.
People who are led by the Holy Spirit of God do not teach false hoods.
Jack Chick at your rescue.

 

[JRKH]

I take objection to the fact that the RCC says it did its changing of adding to God’s Word by way of the Holy Spirit.

Please prove that the Holy Spirit did not lead the Church in the establishment of th eBible canon. Please prove that the Church “Changed God’s Word” in error. Please prove this with quotes and proper references to church documents and not just vague assertions.

The Holy Spirit is God indwelling in the hearts of men and women who have given their lives to him and made him Lord of their life (John 3-All of 3). They choose to follow Him and to be guided by His Word and His spirit.

Very true and quite in line with the teachings of the Church Christ founded.

The men who presided at the Council of Trent, as leaders of the RCC, stated that they did not care what God’s word said. They were going to add their own traditions, laws, dogmas, etc.

References please

They were not being led by the Holy Spirit. This was blaspheym against God and what he spoke in his Word in Deut. and Rev. that says not to change or add to his word.

In your references to “not to change or add a word”, how do you apply this to the entire bible canon when the books containing this were written centuries before the bible canon was settled on?

Yes, many other men did read the Word for themselves and separted from the Word of God the portions that the church had added to the Word.

Prove that these men who read and disassembled the canon were correct in their interpretation. How do you know that they “seperated” the correct “portions” that were “added”??

After people read the Scriptures for ourselves, they realise which understanding of Scripture from the noted scholars, they relate to the best.

So which of the many differing interpretations among the NCC denominations is right? Or do you believe that the Holy Spirit is the Author of differing interpretations and conflicting beliefs?

But none of those intreptations add dogmas and traditions, etc., or blantely change the Word. They simply separted what God said from what the RCC added to the Bible with its books describing what the RCC is to be all about.
There is a truth in God’s Word beyond what the RCC wants its followers to accept.

Sorry but you are wrong here. The very Idea of Sola Scriptura is not biblical. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the Bible Alone is to be the Sole Rule of Faith.
Furthermore, nowhere within the Bible texts is there a list the books of the canon. This was settled upon at Carthage and Hippo at the end of the 4th century. This canon was the official and accepted canon of The Sole Christian Church for more than 1000 years until the “reformation”. Your quote from Revalation about nont changing or adding says “To this Book” which means to the book of revelation and not to the entire bible, which had not been compiled yet.

Stick around my friend there are many wonderful people here who can help you better understand the Glories of God’s revelation through His Holy Church.

Peace
James

 

[CWBetts]

Who is Jack Chick? If this is a name for me then, I admit
Jack Chick at your rescue.

This speaks volumes. We know that not a sindgle word of your post can be taken as legitimate. Why? Because of Jack T. Chick. This man has been spewing anti-Catholic lies for years. A smaple of “facts” from your source:

1. The Catholic Church was invented by Emperor Constantine in the 5th Century. (St. Ignatius of Antioch called the Church the “Catholic Church” in his letter to the Smyrnans, in the early 2nd century).
2. The Catholic Church founded the Ku Kux Klan. (Actually, Catholics are fairly high on their hate parade, behind African-Americans and Jews.)
3. The Catholic Church was behind Nazi Germany (Again, a falsehood. Pope Pius XII was credited with saving the lives of thousands of Jews during the Holocaust and is considered a Righteous Gentile. Also, Nazis had no problems executing St. Maximillian Kolbe, a Catholic priest.)
4. The Catholic Church was behind Communism. (A famous quote from The Communist Manifesto: “Religion is the opiate of the people.” Would the Church, or any church back this statement? Of course not!
5. Alberto Rivera a secret Jesuit Bishop, defected from the Church to tell the truth. (Alberto has been proven to be a fraud. He was involved in multiple financial schemes, and there is no record anywhere of his being a priest.)

I really don’t need to go on do I? I would read Catholic answers special report on Jack Chick here:
catholic.com/library/sr_chick_tracts.asp

 

[po18guy]

Who is Jack Chick? If this is a name for me then, I admit I may not be a scholar but are you a scholar? Guess not or you would see through the church and its pagan teachings.
I have a most strong point in my disagreement with the church fathers saying they are led by the Holy Spirit.
If they are led by the Holy Spirit then they would never have said they did not care what God had told us. They would never dream of making things up from: Mary being assumed into heaven like Jesus, to her being alive right now and the one to pray to for her to interceed to her Son, or adding pagan beads (the rosary). and teaching the people that if they pray to her or wear the sacpular they will not perish. Lies. And more lies.
It does not take a scholar to see through the lies and false teachings.
These open ways for Satan to come in and he comes to steal, kill, and destroy everyone. As long a people want to buy into the lies the church feds them then Satan is winning and prayers are not being answered.
If you believe you prayed on the rosary and your prayer was answered it was because God answered it. Because he is a God of forgiveness and Grace. His mercy for his renews every day.
He is still trying to reach those who are bing held in bondage. Bondage by a church that sells Mary as a white women. Think about this…Mary was born of the tribe of David, and David’s grandmother Ruth was a dark skinned women of the Moabites.
Icons lie.
Prayer beads can not hold promises that God never gave to us. Man made invention of the rosary came from St. Dominic in 1214 AD and was approved by Pope Innocent III. Whenever people start to fall away the church comes up with something to attract people.They are not thinking clearly. They go with what looks and sounds good. Not what God tells us. Which is to stay focused on Him. Stay God centered. Don’t be double minded. Don’t beluke warm about me or I will spew you out of my mouth.
Mary, being a Jew would never have seen a rosary…or prayed on one. It was not invented for church use until she had been dead for 1,000 years.
People who are led by the Holy Spirit of God do not teach false hoods.
Jack Chick at your rescue.

My brother in Christ, Jack Chick is a well known anti-Catholic who seems to believe a lot as you do. I know not where you got your information and particular beliefs, but they are mostly very new to Christianity. Sadly, your view of Church history is completely off. We would love to provide a true and accurate accounting if you are willing to stick with us. The Catholic Church is not the demon that so many make it out to be.

If the Universal (“catholic”) Church was corrupted, or fell into apostasy, then Christ was not telling the truth in Matthew 16, was he?

Anyway, a better title for this thread would be “The Universal Christian Church gave us the bible”, because that reflects the truth of what actually happened. I am sad to say that in your rejection of everything but your private interpretation of scripture, you have dismissed the entire history of Christianity with a sneer toward the one Church that Christ founded.

Start a new thread about this, please. See you there.

 

[po18guy]

My abject apology to NotWorthy, who once again proved to be a prophet. To get this back on the rails, I have begun a new-old thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=5264369#post5264369

 

[NotWorthy]

The men who presided at the Council of Trent, as leaders of the RCC, stated that they did not care what God’s word said. They were going to add their own traditions, laws, dogmas, etc. They were not being led by the Holy Spirit. This was blaspheym against God and what he spoke in his Word in Deut. and Rev. that says not to change or add to his word.

BG, your credibility is beginning to wane (and I think I’m giving your the benefit of the doubt). Please provide proof of this statement (and you can answer my other questions to the validity of your previous statements.

If all you are going to do is throw charges against the Catholic Church and not be able to back up those charges with proof… well, it looks like you are the one who is spreading falsehood.

 

[Jerry_Marino]

i don’t think so, i think God gave us the bible.

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness(2 tim 3:16)niv.

All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness(nab).

anyway when the new testament was being written; catholicism still had not been formed. so why even bother saying about the old testament.

God bless.

 

[JRKH]

i don’t think so, i think God gave us the bible.

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness(2 tim 3:16)niv.

All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness(nab).

anyway when the new testament was being written; catholicism still had not been formed. so why even bother saying about the old testament.

God bless.

How do you define Catholicism and when do you believe it was “Formed”?

What Church did those Bishops belong to who assembled the canon of the Bible?

Peace
James

 

[NotWorthy]

How do you define Catholicism and when do you believe it was “Formed”?

What Church did those Bishops belong to who assembled the canon of the Bible?

Peace
James

Yeah, Constantine was around 325AD, so the Catholic was at least 70 years old by the time the Canon was hashed out!

 

[Jerry_Marino]

well if you don’t know when the church was founded and by whom, maybe this might help: roman catholic church?

 

[JRKH]

well if you don’t know when the church was founded and by whom, maybe this might help: roman catholic church?

Jerry,
I am asking you this question in all Honesty Sincerity and with Christian Love. I would appreciate an answer of the same type.
It does neither one of us any good to have a conversation in which the definitions are not agreed upon.

Now - I will ask the questions again, Please notice I am asking for what YOU understand to be the correct answers.

How do you define Catholicism and when do you believe it was “Formed”?

What Church did those Bishops belong to who assembled the canon of the Bible?

Peace
James

 

[PJM]

=Holly3278;5241078]Hi everyone! Is the statement “Catholics gave us the Bible.” a true statement? I believe it is because Catholics wrote the New Testament and came up with the entire Biblical canon. Am I right or am I wrong?

***You are correct but perhaps not expressing the concept as fully as one might.

It may be more accurate to state that the Bible “is a Catholic Book.” The Catholic Church had sole possession of the Bible for nearly 1,600 years, and yes the NT was authored by inspired writters that we would come to know and identify as Catholics. At the time of writting they were known mostly as Christians.Although this name too did not become know until early in the second Century.***

 

[NotWorthy]

well if you don’t know when the church was founded and by whom, maybe this might help: roman catholic church?

And where was Peter bishop? And where were Peter and Paul martyred?

Oh yeah… and who coined the phrase “Roman Catholic Church”? I’m pretty sure PRoTESTANTS did!

 

[NotWorthy]

***You are correct but perhaps not expressing the concept as fully as one might.

It may be more accurate to state that the Bible “is a Catholic Book.” The Catholic Church had sole possession of the Bible for nearly 1,600 years, and yes the NT was authored by inspired writters that we would come to know and identify as Catholics. At the time of writting they were known mostly as Christians.Although this name too did not become know until early in the second Century.***

This is incorrect. The term “Catholic” originated no later than early in the 2nd Century. St. Ignatius (circa 110AD), the Antioch Bishop has the earliest known use of the term “Catholic”, although from the casuality that he used it, it seems that the term was already prevalent.

But the term “Christian”, which also originated in Antioch, is found in Acts of the Apostles. Hence, its prior to 62AD.

 

[po18guy]

i don’t think so, i think God gave us the bible.

If the bible was intended to be the foundation of faith, why did Jesus found a Church, and not a bible? (Matthew 16:18)? Did Jesus give the “great commission” to men, or to a bible (Matthew 28:19)? Why did God wait 350 years to assemble the canon? Why did the Apostle Paul admonish the Church to keep both NT scripture and the oral tradition? (2 Thessalonians 2:15) Did not God also give us the Church, the pillar and foundation of the truth (1 Timothy 3:15)? To solve disputes between members, did Jesus teach us to go to the bible or to the Church (Matthew 18:15-17)?