"Catholics hate the Bible!". Sorry, I forgot

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Tess said:
8 When the Lamb opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. 3 And another angel came and stood wat the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne, 4 and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel. 5 Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth, and there were peals of thunder, rumblings,1 flashes of lightning, and an earthquake.

Its not the saints who were offering the prayers, its the angel who had the prayers of the saints on earth and he was offering them to God
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You quoted Rev. 8:1. Did you miss Rev. 5:8?
8 When He took the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
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The saints and the angels are praying for us, the living. They must be aware of us in order to pray for us.
 
That chapter talks about Israel, The church, the time of tribulation(3 1/2yrs). Its a prophetic chapter
 
Tess said:
What Iam telling you is true.

Catholicism is pagan worship. Period.
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Not that i expect you to all of the sudden begin to respond to me Tess but if another non-Catholic disagrees with you on this statement does that make them wrong or you wrong? Will you through out the infallible card on them? Careful, there are a few of those here on CAF.

Peace!!!
 
Tess said:
Catholicism is pagan worship. Period.
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Pagan worship implies that Catholics worship a being other than God. We don’t. In Catholicism, worshiping anyone other than God is “pagan worship” as well.

But we don’t worship Mary. That would be a deadly sin. We don’t worship the Pope. We don’t worship saints. Catholics only worship God.
 
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You continue to avoid the scriptural evidence for Catholic belief in favor of hurling insults. Sad.
 
Tess said:
What Iam telling you is true.

Catholicism is pagan worship. Period.

Whether you like it or not, if you do not truly believe on CHRIST and not on the pope who is more of the Anti-Christ/ the son of Pedition or Mary, or the saints, Then you are headed for hell.

Go and carefully study your BIBLE not another book
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How utterly disrespectful.

Sort of…un-Christian as well. Don’t you think?
 
In my experience people tend to hurl insults when they are out of arguments.
 
It’s usually that or a nerve has been struck that they’re not too happy about you striking and now they’re uncomfortable.

I totally agree.
 
People tend to lash out when they are angry, and I imagine that is what your friend did, as is the case with many others. What the source of anger towards catholicism is would be an entirely different topic, and would certainly vary by individual.

I am not a catholic, nor a protestant, but I don’t believe catholics hate the Bible, rather that catholicism teaches a different faith than the Bible, and of Jesus and his disciples & followers (it is the same with protestantism, but not to the same degree). It is a matter of misunderstanding, twisted Scripture, and holding as doctrines the commandments of men while rejecting the commands of God.

To be clear, I mean this with absolute respect towards all, and I am NOT saying that catholics or protestants are not saved, as that is a matter of a person believing Jesus is the Messiah. Believers are called to “walk as Jesus walked” (1 John 2:6) & that is not the case with catholicism & protestantism.
 
Greetings Thomas and welcome to CAF.

May i ask what makes your interpretation of the bible more correct than ours or than even those protestants who would disagree with you?

Peace!!!
 
I wouldn’t say it’s a matter of interpretation, but rather simply reading what the Bible actually states.

Here’s a brief example:

• Jesus is the Word (John 1:1)
• Jesus and the Father are one (John 10:30)
• Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8)
• God doesn’t change (Malachi 3:6)
• Jesus didn’t come to destroy the Law (Torah) or the Prophets - The Word (Matthew 5:17-20)
• The Word of God endures forever (Isaiah 40:8, 1 Peter 1:25)

catholicism teaches that the Law (torah) was abolished by Jesus. The Bible says the exact opposite. The Torah was the Word (written and spoken) of God, so if it was abolished then it didn’t endure forever thus contradicting Isaiah 40:8 & 1 Peter 1:25 , if the Word is Jesus and the Word changed, then that means Jesus changed thus contradicting Hebrews 13:8 & Malachi 3:6. Matthew 5:17-20 is the clearest example of Jesus proclaiming the Torah to last forever & that it would never be abolished.

Either the Bible is wrong, or catholicism is wrong.

Another example is when Jesus called Peter “the Rock”

The word used for “Peter” is the word for “pebble” and the word for “Rock” is the word “cliff” or “large mass of rock” & 1 Corinthians 10:4 states that the Rock is the Messiah, thus the Rock has to be Jesus, not Peter.

Thanks for reaching out, this by no means covered everything or went too deep, but I hope it is enough to start with.

Blessings to you!
 
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Thomas_Dogood said:
catholicism teaches that the Law (torah) was abolished by Jesus. The Bible says the exact opposite. The Torah was the Word (written and spoken) of God, so if it was abolished then it didn’t endure forever thus contradicting Isaiah 40:8 & 1 Peter 1:25 , if the Word is Jesus and the Word changed, then that means Jesus changed thus contradicting Hebrews 13:8 & Malachi 3:6. Matthew 5:17-20 is the clearest example of Jesus proclaiming the Torah to last forever & that it would never be abolished.
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Where do you get this? Can you reference the Catholic Catechism which is offical Catholic teaching?
I am not familiar with this Catholic teaching im more familiar with the one found in the Catechism. You may want to review CCC 708-710 and CCC 1961-1964. Catholics do believe the old testament forshadowes the new testament.
Thomas_Dogood said:
Another example is when Jesus called Peter “the Rock”

The word used for “Peter” is the word for “pebble” and the word for “Rock” is the word “cliff” or “large mass of rock” & 1 Corinthians 10:4 states that the Rock is the Messiah, thus the Rock has to be Jesus, not Peter.
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If you are interested in the truth behind the language barrier please read what Karl Keating wrote on this.


Peace!!!
 
I will explore the catholic catechism for a specific reference. I know that it states that Jesus fulfilled the Law, but that particular section does not go into further detail on whether the Law should continue to be observed or not. Without quoting it, as I do not have it in front of me now, we can simply look at what the Torah says & compare it to catholic practice:

• Why does catholicism not celebrate the Feasts of the Lord? (Leviticus 23)
• Why does the Catholic Church not celebrate the biblical sabbath (Exodus 20:8-11), but rather admit that the church changed the Sabbath to Sunday - which is a direct violation of Torah (Deuteronomy 4:2)
• Why does catholicism not teach to keep the dietary instructions of Leviticus 11?
• Deuteronomy 12:28-32 states that God’s people (Israel - of which believers become grafted into - Romans 11:17, Jeremiah 11:16) are not to learn the ways of the nation & worship God according to these ways & customs. Therefore, why does the catholic church not reject holidays such as Christmas, Easter, even Lent, that the church openly admitted to taking from secular ungodly religions?

These are just 4 examples of Torah instructions that the catholicism does not follow or teach. I understand that catholicism teaches that the “Old Testament” shadows the “New Testament” but again if God’s Word endures forever (Isaiah 40:8, 1 Peter 1:25) this can’t mean that the Torah was done away with when Jesus died. Therefore, all of the biblical Feasts, dietary laws, Sabbath, still endure and are relevant to believers today - exactly what Jesus references in Matthew 5:17-20 & Paul in Romans 3:30-31.

I am familiar with the Council of Florence which speaks against the observance of the Torah with extreme consequences. Here is a link:

catholicism.org

The Council of Florence (A.D. 1438-1445) From Cantate Domino — Papal Bull of Pope Eugene IV

The sacrosanct Roman Church, founded by the voice of our Lord and Savior, firmly believes, professes, and preaches one true God omnipotent, unchangeable, and eternal, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; o…
catholicism.org

Thanks for sending the article. A few issues with it. Matthew was originally written in Hebrew, not Aramaic (see Panarion 29, or it may be Jerome’s letter to Augustine 75 - they are both good reads regarding various points of the whole conversation), and later translated into Greek. There is also very good evidence that the language spoken was Hebrew rather than Aramaic (http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/m/nt_origins.html)
The words may have been synonyms in the 1st Century, but again in the 1st Century Matthew was in Hebrew & then translated to Greek. A distinction was made between the words for a reason, most likely to avoid confusion. Furthermore, you would have to decide who the “rock” is - the Messiah (1 Corinthians 10:4) or Peter. So, who is the Rock? I would also point that a pope is not biblical either, so using this passage to say Peter became a pope of a “new religion” called Christianity doesn’t follow biblical teachings.

I’ve enjoyed the conversation so far. Thank you for sharing reading material as well as being respectful in your comments, I truly appreciate both.
 
Thomas_Dogood said:
These are just 4 examples of Torah instructions that the catholicism does not follow or teach
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Im sure there are more than these 4. We are a Christian religion not a Jewish one.

Im not going to argue with you over what language it was written in. There are more qualified people here that might want to. I will just ask you are you a biblical scholar yourself or are you taking the word of the references you provided? If you are a scholar my question is why are not all scholars on the same page with this argument, if you are not a scholar the my original question about interpretation remains, or in ths case authorty. What authorty do the above references have that lay people like you and I should heed over another authority?
Thomas_Dogood said:
I would also point that a pope is not biblical either, so using this passage to say Peter became a pope of a “new religion” called Christianity doesn’t follow biblical teachings.
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Then you must have great difficulty believing the Trinity as it too is not in the bible.

Peace!!!
 
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Thomas_Dogood said:
Why does catholicism not teach to keep the dietary instructions of Leviticus 11?
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Note that Peter kept the dietary restrictions until God told him he did not have to in Acts 10:14. If Peter can do it, so can we.
 
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