"Catholics have not repented": Sydney Anglican Dean

[joeybaggz]

Try to learn the difference between temporal and spiritual consequences for sin. Otherwise you’ll keep tilting at windmills and never understand why the Church teaches what it does.

Chris

Do you think these people have any desire to understand. The quick answer - No.

I have never seen a Protestant, atheist, agnostic, Druid, whatever, on this site, ever actually make an attempt to understand Catholic teaching when suggested that they do so. They won’t do it. They are blissfully happy with their “get out of jail free” ( OSAS) religion, and really don’t want to look too closely at it.

They come here simply to spew. They are not interested in understanding, learning, or examining their own position. I guess they think that just telling us we are dolts is going to make un run en masse to the nearest Pentecostal Church. Ponderous.

Never buy a product from a salesperson whose only sales pitch is what’s wrong with the other’s guys goods. Don’t buy a religion from that person either. In fact, don’t waste your time or energy taking them seriously.

Shalom

 

[estesbob]

Chris

Do you think these people have any desire to understand. The quick answer - No.

om

Perhaps so but there are more lurkers in CAF than regualr posters. becuase of that you must refute whtever faslehood about the Church that is posted, otherwise a lurker may believe its true.

 

[GraceDK]

Chris

Do you think these people have any desire to understand. The quick answer - No.

I have never seen a Protestant, atheist, agnostic, Druid, whatever, on this site, ever actually make an attempt to understand Catholic teaching when suggested that they do so. They won’t do it. They are blissfully happy with their “get out of jail free” ( OSAS) religion, and really don’t want to look too closely at it.

They come here simply to spew. They are not interested in understanding, learning, or examining their own position. I guess they think that just telling us we are dolts is going to make un run en masse to the nearest Pentecostal Church. Ponderous.

Never buy a product from a salesperson whose only sales pitch is what’s wrong with the other’s guys goods. Don’t buy a religion from that person either. In fact, don’t waste your time or energy taking them seriously.

Shalom

I disagree with you… naturally, or I would not be going into dialoge with my Protestant and Evangelical brothers and sisters. I have done so successfully many times… by success I dont mean that they leave their church and join mine but that they understand the Catholic point of view, what Scripture we use as grounds for our position etc… and the same understanding and actually listening I expect from my self. This approach and earnest desire for unity has made me able to understand and be understood… sometimes it takes some amount of time to study the language and concepts that other groups use so you know what they mean when they use them instead of assuming something.
Quite a lot of times I have had people tell me…" wow it makes much better sense to me now", or " I thought you believed in this and that but its interesting to hear what you have said so I now know what you really believe". Likewise I have very good basis for sometimes saying “I understand what you say and how your logic goes even if I do not agree with you”.
However… these good experiences of understanding comes only after you have shown that you are not out to bash people or pick a debate with them. Peace and honesty, humility and safe environment are key points. And… as the famous Pentecostal David du Plessis once said: “Dont dare to ever teach someone anything if you don’t pray for the person too”…

Peace and praised be the Lord Yeshua Ha Messiah.

 

[JonNC]

Chris
Do you think these people have any desire to understand. The quick answer - No

I’ve never seen a Protestant, atheist, agnostic, Druid, whatever, on this site, ever actually make an attempt to understand Catholic teaching when suggested that they do so.

They come here simply to spew. They are not interested in understanding, learning, or examining their own position.

Never buy a product from a salesperson whose only sales pitch is what’s wrong with the other’s guys goods. Don’t buy a religion from that person either. In fact, don’t waste your time or energy taking them seriously.

Shalom

Way to broad a brush, my friend. It is precisely the reason I (and I’ve seen many others) are here; to learn and understand, then evaluate what Catholics teach and what we already believe.

Do some “spew”? Yea. But to say you’ve “***never ***seen a protestant,…ever actually make an attempt…”?

On your last paragraph, I agree.

On the OP’s topic, the Bishop’s comments certainly don’t bubble over with the spirit of ecumenism, do they?

Jon

 

[joeybaggz]

Quite a lot of times I have had people tell me…" wow it makes much better sense to me now", or " I thought you believed in this and that but its interesting to hear what you have said so I now know what you really believe". Likewise I have very good basis for sometimes saying “I understand what you say and how your logic goes even if I do not agree with you”.

Must be private messages because I only see the same old names show up, fling their “poo” and then disappear. I have never seen one of these non Catholic “critics” post something like, “I went and read your suggested text and I can see where you are coming from. I can’t say that I agree with everything, but your position makes more sense now.”

Now that’s not to say it doesn’t happen, or doesn’t happen without the kind of acknowledgment I refer to. I respect your disagreement, and I agree with estesbob’ point about lurkers and the necessity of speaking the truth and offering Catholic teaching rationally, cordially, and in a fair and balanced manner.

It is just that I see a lot of childlike impudence that is passed off as a “contribution.” with no rhyme, reason, or rationale. Nor any real willingness to understand the point with which certain posters disagree.

 

[Hisalone]

I’m not following your train of thought here…

The OP.

We reject any implication that Jesus’s work on the cross was insufficient

for me an obvious reference to purgatory.

 

[Hisalone]

From Hisalone’s profile of “Christian”, she/he may be OSAS and is surely SS, so there is most certainly a lack of understanding of Catholicism, just as in the Right Reverend’s case. Same bible, same destination, but a belief in a different path.

Christ’s peace.

 

[dosdog]

The OP.

We reject any implication that Jesus’s work on the cross was insufficient

for me an obvious reference to purgatory.

I just need a change of heart I don’t have to do anything
John 15 13 Greater love than this no man hath, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Matthew 11 20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein were done the most of his miracles, for that they had not done penance. Apocalypse 2 16 In like manner do penance: if not, I will come to thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. Matthew 11 21 Woe to thee, Corozain, woe to thee, Bethsaida: for if in Tyre and Sidon had been wrought the miracles that have been wrought in you, they had long ago done penance in sackcloth and ashes.

Hey you guys go home do nothing I’ll take care of it myself
Matthew 28 19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

Remember I have ticket to Heaven I moved my lips
Luke 10 31 And it chanced, that a certain priest went down the same way: and seeing him, passed by. 32 In like manner also a Levite, when he was near the place and saw him, passed by. 33 But a certain Samaritan being on his journey, came near him; and seeing him, was moved with compassion. 34 And going up to him, bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine: and setting him upon his own beast, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. 36 Which of these three, in thy opinion, was neighbour to him that fell among the robbers? 37 But he said: He that showed mercy to him. And Jesus said to him: Go, and do thou in like manner

And before you go there Mr. Thief

He confessed - Jesus gave absolution - became a martyr - Baptism desire & blood

Jesus did not say Heaven -He said Paradise- and we all know there is a reality between Heaven & Hell (ie Matt 27:52)

And there is a difference between “paradise” (which is only mentioned twice throughout the whole Bible) and heaven. Paradise is not heaven, for even Jesus, when assuring the thief on the Cross, told the thief that this day he would be in paradise (not heaven) with Him. And we know that Jesus did not ascend into heaven until 50 days after His resurrection (Pentecost). Jesus descended to the dead where He preached the good news to the souls in ‘prison’ (see first book of Peter chapters 3 and 4).

 

[Hisalone]

Evangelical and/or Fundamentalist, right? How can you claim to understand Catholicism? Who taught you what you “know” and what is their authority to teach? Inquiring minds want to know, since you seem to have Heavenly knowledge of our “false teachings”. This is important, as your soul is at stake, and so are ours.

Christ’s peace.

p.s. Re-read rule 7 that you already agreed to.

Lets see was it the good nuns, or was it CCD classes or was it all the TAN books I read or was it the all night first friday/first saturday prayer meetings I used to attend. I just cant remember

Christs work was sufficent in and of itself. When we cover ourselves with the blood of Jesus God sees no sin we are perfect in His eyes. There is nothing else we can do or that is required of us.

So what happens when one dies and there may be an unconfessed sin? When we come face to face with God who is pure light that sin is exposed and we can do nothing but to acknowledge it and be remorsefull.

 

[po18guy]

The OP.

We reject any implication that Jesus’s work on the cross was insufficient

for me an obvious reference to purgatory.

Do you go to heaven if you reject Jesus? Do you go to heaven if you accept Him, but do nothing else about your faith? Is everyone saved, no matter if they believe, no matter if they repent, no matter if they keep on sinning? I hope you do not believe this way, because this is NOT scriptural. By this belief, Osama bin Laden is saved. Kim Jong Il is saved. You can’t possibly believe that!?!?!

Purgatory cleanses of “personal sin”, an ancient concept that you may not be familiar with. Purgatory has nothing to do with Christ’s sacrifice. It relates to cleansing of your own sins at the time of your death, so as to make you fit to enter Heaven, where no impurity may enter.

Or, does Christ’s sacrifice make you sinless? I cannot understand your theology.

 

[Hisalone]

And before you go there Mr. Thief

He confessed - Jesus gave absolution - became a martyr - Baptism desire & blood

Jesus did not say Heaven -He said Paradise- and we all know there is a reality between Heaven & Hell (ie Matt 27:52)

And there is a difference between “paradise” (which is only mentioned twice throughout the whole Bible) and heaven. Paradise is not heaven, for even Jesus, when assuring the thief on the Cross, told the thief that this day he would be in paradise (not heaven) with Him. And we know that Jesus did not ascend into heaven until 50 days after His resurrection (Pentecost). Jesus descended to the dead where He preached the good news to the souls in ‘prison’ (see first book of Peter chapters 3 and 4).

What you said before this last paragraph really has no place in the discussion.
No matter what you say Paradise is heaven or the bossom of Abraham or any other educated definition -----it is not purgatory.

 

[dosdog]

What you said before this last paragraph really has no place in the discussion.
No matter what you say Paradise is heaven or the bossom of Abraham or any other educated definition -----it is not purgatory.

Pilgrimage to Tombs of Jewish Saints (Hiloulot)
rickgold.home.mindspring.com/pilgrimage_to_tombs_of_jewish_sa.htm

PURGATORY
ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/BASISPUR.HTM

Catholic Doctrinal Concordance
infpage.com/concordance/lasthings.htm

 

[Cathdefender]

Anglican Dean of Sydney Reverend Phillip Jensen has spoken out strongly against Catholic doctrine at the same time as defending government support for the upcoming World Youth Day event.

In an article in The Sydney Morning Herald Phillip Jensen, the brother of the Anglican Archbishop of Sydney, said the nature of Protestanism was to protest against Roman Catholic claims to authority.

“We object to the Pope claiming to be the Vicar of Christ. We reject all claims to authority that imply the insufficiency of scripture. We reject any implication that Jesus’s work on the cross was insufficient or is received by more than faith or requires some other mediator,” Reverend Jensen said.

…

smh.com.au/news/national/no-welcome-mat-for-the-pope/2008/05/26/1211653939176.html

Really, who cares what this man says…We 1.12 billion Catholics are quite content with our pope and our faith whom Christ founded…

 

[RobHom]

Lets see was it the good nuns, or was it CCD classes or was it all the TAN books I read or was it the all night first friday/first saturday prayer meetings I used to attend. I just cant remember

Oddly enough…as a “cradle Catholic”…I simply can’t remember ever going to "all night first friday/first saturday prayer meeting,…hmmm, those two buzz-words are rather “prot”, nay?

Christs work was sufficent in and of itself. When we cover ourselves with the blood of Jesus God sees no sin we are perfect in His eyes. There is nothing else we can do or that is required of us.

Hmmm, it would appear that you have chosen to embrace only those parts of the Bible that work for you. Perhaps you might want to “embrace the entire Bible” and rethink that position, as your current position IMHO…puts you in actual “contravention” with the “Word of God” that you claim to “espouse to”, nay?

So what happens when one dies and there may be an unconfessed sin? When we come face to face with God who is pure light that sin is exposed and we can do nothing but to acknowledge it and be remorsefull.

What could possibly make you believe that if you die with un-confessed sin…that you will enter heaven? The “OSAS” routine? I’m afraid you’ve misread or neglected to read many salient parts of the Bible, or sadly misunderstood the Bible’s messages. Keep in mind…it is neither “man’s right or duty” to pick and choose that or those parts of the Bible that meet his needs or agenda…its “an all or none” deal.

 

[elts1956]

Read purgatory.
Christ paid once and for all the price of our sin on the cross, there is nothing more that needs to be paid,

Christ’s Sacrifice on the Cross wasn’t a freebee as some seem to think. We, as sinners, need to continue to try to live up to His promise of redemption through our thoughts, words and deeds.

 

[elts1956]

The OP.

We reject any implication that Jesus’s work on the cross was insufficient

for me an obvious reference to purgatory.

To my belief, Christ opened the “way” for us to follow Him to redemption. From my childhood, I remember hearing that after the fall of Adam and Eve, the gates of Heaven were closed to all. Upon Christ’s Sacrifice on the Cross, they were again opened and we were given the means to walk through that opening by following the Creed and Dogmas of Holy Mother Church which Christ started and the Apostles and their followers held in truth.

 

[Hisalone]

Oddly enough…as a “cradle Catholic”…I simply can’t remember ever going to "all night first friday/first saturday prayer meeting,…hmmm, those two buzz-words are rather “prot”, nay?

Its been a minute or two. You’ve never done sacred heart/Immaculate heart devotions?

Hmmm, it would appear that you have chosen to embrace only those parts of the Bible that work for you. Perhaps you might want to “embrace the entire Bible” and rethink that position, as your current position IMHO…puts you in actual “contravention” with the “Word of God” that you claim to “espouse to”, nay?

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

What could possibly make you believe that if you die with un-confessed sin…that you will enter heaven? The “OSAS” routine? I’m afraid you’ve misread or neglected to read many salient parts of the Bible, or sadly misunderstood the Bible’s messages. Keep in mind…it is neither “man’s right or duty” to pick and choose that or those parts of the Bible that meet his needs or agenda…its “an all or none” deal.

Unless you are perfect which few attain there will be unconfessed sin when one dies.

 

[Hisalone]

Christ’s Sacrifice on the Cross wasn’t a freebee as some seem to think. We, as sinners, need to continue to try to live up to His promise of redemption through our thoughts, words and deeds.

The good news is that salvation is a free gift available to those who freely recieve it.

 

[dosdog]

The good news is that salvation is a free gift available to those who freely recieve it.

Matthew 5 20 For I tell you, that unless your justice abound more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[elts1956]

The good news is that salvation is a free gift available to those who freely recieve it.

Belief alone will not cleanse one’s soul of sin.