Catholics. Is Salvation Easy Or Complicated?

[cyberwolf001]

Now I am confused. Were you told that even after Purgatory, some will not go to heaven? Did someone tell you that you could go to hell even if you were in a state of grace?

Welcome to my world. I’ve been told you can die with no mortal sins on your soul and still not be in a state of grace. Mind you the person in question I am convinced likes to just be a no it all as he sees Catholicism as Christianity for college educated people and not ignorant people

I once as a joke asked if he’d like to visit the Catholic Church in Wales named Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.

He’s response “Do you mean a Schismatic Catholic Church? Or a Parish of the One true Catholic Church, as there is only one Church with many Parishes.” Then went into an hour long rant about why Catholics should never call the Parishes a Church.

For the curious the name translates as St Mary’s Church (Llanfair) of a hollow (pwll) of white hazel (gwyngyll) near (goger) the swirling whirlpool (y chwyrndrobwll) of the church of St Tysilio (llantysilio) with a red cave ([a]g ogo goch).

 

[LittleSoldier]

Welcome to my world. I’ve been told you can die with no mortal sins on your soul and still not be in a state of grace. Mind you the person in question I am convinced likes to just be a no it all as he sees Catholicism as Christianity for college educated people and not ignorant people

I once as a joke asked if he’d like to visit the Catholic Church in Wales named Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.

He’s response “Do you mean a Schismatic Catholic Church? Or a Parish of the One true Catholic Church, as there is only one Church with many Parishes.” Then went into an hour long rant about why Catholics should never call the Parishes a Church.

For the curious the name translates as St Mary’s Church (Llanfair) of a hollow (pwll) of white hazel (gwyngyll) near (goger) the swirling whirlpool (y chwyrndrobwll) of the church of St Tysilio (llantysilio) with a red cave ([a]g ogo goch).

Are you serious? Is there really a church with that name? Wow. Just want to be sure it’s not a joke before I write it down somewhere. Wow. Say that one ten times fast!!

 

[Justy90]

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Reading the above, one understands clearly that sins are forgiven and the gift of the Holy Ghost given upon** Repentance + Baptism in the name of Jesus.**

Meaning, ANYONE (eg. living alone, in desert, in mountain tops, jungles etc) ONLY needs to Repent and be Baptized in the name of Jesus, and he/she will be saved upon receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Period.

Question: So, Where and how does the church, pope, mary etc etc come into the picture???

PS. By following Acts 2:38, it seems I don’t even need to know where is the Vatican. Or does someone/some people out there want to tell us that Peter did not complete his sentence or perhaps had said the wrong thing?

.

I believe that it’s very simple once you really begin to know Christ more intimately, but I believe that this is a very problematic thing for Catholics because the base idea of having to couple works with faith for salvation severely limits the relationship one could have with Christ.

 

[cyberwolf001]

Are you serious? Is there really a church with that name? Wow. Just want to be sure it’s not a joke before I write it down somewhere. Wow. Say that one ten times fast!!

Yeap it’s in Northern Wales they shorten it to St. Mary’s but that is how Walesh names work. I think it MIGHT be the town’s name however. You know how some towns and there Church’s share the same name?

llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.co.uk/ the offical site.

Edit: How to pronounce it. Good luck

 

[Timothy_Piper]

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Reading the above, one understands clearly that sins are forgiven and the gift of the Holy Ghost given upon** Repentance + Baptism in the name of Jesus.**

Meaning, ANYONE (eg. living alone, in desert, in mountain tops, jungles etc) ONLY needs to Repent and be Baptized in the name of Jesus, and he/she will be saved upon receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Period.

Question: So, Where and how does the church, pope, mary etc etc come into the picture???

PS. By following Acts 2:38, it seems I don’t even need to know where is the Vatican. Or does someone/some people out there want to tell us that Peter did not complete his sentence or perhaps had said the wrong thing?

.

You misread the context of Acts 2:38, water baptism, cannot save anyone; therefore your premise of the thread is in error or you have a lot of roecocilling to do. Look at how peter said both the Jews and the Gentiles were saved.

Acts 10
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” 48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

Here is what Jesus said,
He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard of from Me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” (Acts 1)

Matt 3:11
“As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.”

There are many more versus to support the fact that indeed the water removes nothing but dirt as Peter aptly said and the true baptism is that which immerses a person into Christ, which is the Holy Spirit. Think of it this way, there are two types of people in the world, the ones with the Holy Spirit immersed into them, the Christian, then all others.

26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized {immersed} into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. (Galatians 3)

Here is the correct grammatical rendering of Acts 2:38
Peter {said} to them, “Repent for the forgiveness of your sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, (then or and) each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ”

This is the only rendering which will yield consistent with the rest of Scripture; otherwise throw your Bible out because their are contradictions.

 

[ralphinal]

Welcome to my world. I’ve been told you can die with no mortal sins on your soul and still not be in a state of grace. Mind you the person in question I am convinced likes to just be a no it all as he sees Catholicism as Christianity for college educated people and not ignorant people

I once as a joke asked if he’d like to visit the Catholic Church in Wales named Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.

He’s response “Do you mean a Schismatic Catholic Church? Or a Parish of the One true Catholic Church, as there is only one Church with many Parishes.” Then went into an hour long rant about why Catholics should never call the Parishes a Church.

For the curious the name translates as St Mary’s Church (Llanfair) of a hollow (pwll) of white hazel (gwyngyll) near (goger) the swirling whirlpool (y chwyrndrobwll) of the church of St Tysilio (llantysilio) with a red cave ([a]g ogo goch).

IT sounds like the person who told you that would be what my father would call a pointy-head. That is someone who is so smart that they become an idiot.

If you have no mortal sins on your soul, sooner or later you will be in heaven.

Whoever told you that knows less about the Church than my 8 year old

 

[charsan2]

Catholics. Is Salvation Easy Or Complicated?

I would say it is not awfully complicated. You have first RCIA or private instruction then you go to Mass as much as possible and confession at least once a month.

 

[Mosacked]

It seems you’re saying, “once saved always saved”, based on one verse of scripture. Can one receive the Holy Spirit and not receive salvation? Only Christ can judge that. If we look further in scripture, we see Paul trembled over his own salvation, after he had received the Holy Spirit. Does that make him a “rejector” of what the “guy” had already said? Since Paul tells us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, THINK. Doesn’t that make you a “rejector” of what the “guy” said?

My point is, you cannot piece meal God’s word to fit a theology. One has to fit their theology to ALL of God’s word.

No, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m just asking if from the above sentence, one gathers that it is EASY or DIFFICULT to obtain salvation? My point is, it is very easy. God made is easy.

You asked…Can one receive the Holy Spirit and not receive Salvation?
Well, you’re jumping the gun here. I asked if the entry ticket is easy to get, not whether after getting the ticket you will be allowed in. Of course if you DROP the ticket, you can forget about your entrance.

BUT…that doesn’t mean that ticket was difficult to get in the 1st place.
.

 

[Justy90]

I would say it is not awfully complicated. You have first RCIA or private instruction then you go to Mass as much as possible and confession at least once a month.

None of that has a lick to do with salvation.

 

[Mosacked]

You may have had a lousy RCIA. That’s too bad.

Here’s what the catechism says:

1996 Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.46

1023 Those who die in God’s grace and friendship and are perfectly purified live for ever with Christ. They are like God for ever, for they “see him as he is,” face to face:598

And if we extend that GRACE a little we will not fail to realise that God can save people who do not even know who is the Pope nor who are the Catholics. Who are you then to extend His grace to within your preferred boundaries only to limit it where you don’t deem fit???

What cyberwolf was trying to say is that the catholics make Salvation uncertain and complex…reverting basically EVERYTHING back into the hands of the clergymen…even then there is no absolute guarantee.

BUT…what does the Scripture tell us?..It tells us CLEARLY that there IS A Guarantee of INHERITANCE…

Ephesians 1: 11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

And if one reads further, one will know that the Holy Spirit is the Counselor, who according to Jesus will teach the believer unto ALL things. Such a believer will be guided personally by God’s Spirit. There is NO room for even a human teacher nor a priest nor a bishop nor a pope.

 

[Mosacked]

Getting saved? Piece of cake!

Staying saved?

1 Cor. 9, 25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. 27No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

Good, BUT…if you have not obviously noticed, in your quote, there is no room space for the Pope nor the Vatican…its all just YOU.

And you’ve proven my point to be true.

.

 

[charsan2]

None of that has a lick to do with salvation.

it is the process

 

[ralphinal]

And if we extend that GRACE a little we will not fail to realise that God can save people who do not even know who is the Pope nor who are the Catholics. Who are you then to extend His grace to within your preferred boundaries only to limit it where you don’t deem fit???

**What cyberwolf was trying to say is that the catholics make Salvation uncertain and complex…reverting basically EVERYTHING back into the hands of the clergymen…even then there is no absolute guarantee.**BUT…what does the Scripture tell us?..It tells us CLEARLY that there IS A Guarantee of INHERITANCE…

Ephesians 1: 11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

And if one reads further, one will know that the Holy Spirit is the Counselor, who according to Jesus will teach the believer unto ALL things. Such a believer will be guided personally by God’s Spirit. There is NO room for even a human teacher nor a priest nor a bishop nor a pope.

What Cyberwolf said on here is that someone TOLD him something that was not CHurch teaching. Church teaching will show you that being Justified is easy, making it to heavin is hard.

And that agrees with Jesus 100%. Please choose your words carefully, lest you deny what Christ has said

 

[cyberwolf001]

IT sounds like the person who told you that would be what my father would call a pointy-head. That is someone who is so smart that they become an idiot.

If you have no mortal sins on your soul, sooner or later you will be in heaven.

Whoever told you that knows less about the Church than my 8 year old

Ahhh like the German term fact idiot (dunno the German for the word). It’s sorta funny thinking back. He and a girl at my old parish decided I need to be sat down due to my praying to rosary so much and given a talk to about not saying so many “form” prayers and the fact I said “free”, that is in my own words, prayers in private.

For the curious my prayer life at the time was this. 15 decades of the Rosary (had the time so way not?), divine mercy, chaplet of St. Michael, Three hail mary practice before and after sleeping, St. Michael prayer (OFTEN), sign of the cross (VERY VERY often) prayer before and after meals, Eucharistic adoration when I could, daily mass when able, frequent confession, spirtual reading, daily offering, Jesus prayer as I went about my buisness, daily quite time and personal prayer often.

Frequent use of sacramentals and novenas. Venuration of many many Saints. St. Chrisopher for Travel, St. Joseph and Josemaria to find work, St. Jude when desperate, St. Benedict against witchcraft and constant asking for Our Lady and my Patron Saint Patrick. Basicly a sort of “folk” Catholicism with the “high” tossed in. Dunno if those are the right terms.

That and my habit of praying the rosary while waiting for pizza (hey I had 15 to 20 minutes to kill) and worse I didn’t hide them in my pocket, but set them in my lap and went silently bead to bead. I’d make the sign of the cross and pray before meals in public, again silently. I’d wear my miraculos medal outside my shirt.

Honestly still not sure what I did wrong but it seemed I was doing something VERY wrong.

What Cyberwolf said on here is that someone TOLD him something that was not CHurch teaching. Church teaching will show you that being Justified is easy, making it to heavin is hard.

And that agrees with Jesus 100%. Please choose your words carefully, lest you deny what Christ has said

What he said. I hate the whole once saved always saved deal. For my issues with Catholics these nuts are worse. Say the prayer then go sleep around, get drunk, do drugs and so on all while going “Oh we are saved! It’s fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine.” PAH! I may not follow Jesus but neither do they I am just honest about it.

An maybe the Catholics are right and I WILL burn for eternity but at least I am not fouling myself that it is possible. Just as it is possible the Muslims could be right, or the Jehova’s witnesses or any other faith that says us or burn forever.

 

[ralphinal]

Ahhh like the German term fact idiot (dunno the German for the word). It’s sorta funny thinking back. He and a girl at my old parish decided I need to be sat down due to my praying to rosary so much and given a talk to about not saying so many “form” prayers and the fact I said “free”, that is in my own words, prayers in private.

For the curious my prayer life at the time was this. 15 decades of the Rosary (had the time so way not?), divine mercy, chaplet of St. Michael, Three hail mary practice before and after sleeping, St. Michael prayer (OFTEN), sign of the cross (VERY VERY often) prayer before and after meals, Eucharistic adoration when I could, daily mass when able, frequent confession, spirtual reading, daily offering, Jesus prayer as I went about my buisness, daily quite time and personal prayer often.

Frequent use of sacramentals and novenas. Venuration of many many Saints. St. Chrisopher for Travel, St. Joseph and Josemaria to find work, St. Jude when desperate, St. Benedict against witchcraft and constant asking for Our Lady and my Patron Saint Patrick. Basicly a sort of “folk” Catholicism with the “high” tossed in. Dunno if those are the right terms.

That and my habit of praying the rosary while waiting for pizza (hey I had 15 to 20 minutes to kill) and worse I didn’t hide them in my pocket, but set them in my lap and went silently bead to bead. I’d make the sign of the cross and pray before meals in public, again silently. I’d wear my miraculos medal outside my shirt.

Honestly still not sure what I did wrong but it seemed I was doing something VERY wrong.

Have you read St John of the Cross’s dark Night of the Soul?

What he said. I hate the whole once saved always saved deal. For my issues with Catholics these nuts are worse. Say the prayer then go sleep around, get drunk, do drugs and so on all while going “Oh we are saved! It’s fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine.” PAH! I may not follow Jesus but neither do they I am just honest about it.

An maybe the Catholics are right and I WILL burn for eternity but at least I am not fouling myself that it is possible. Just as it is possible the Muslims could be right, or the Jehova’s witnesses or any other faith that says us or burn forever.

Another set of issues for another thread. Or another 100 threads

 

[Bill_Pick]

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Reading the above, one understands clearly that sins are forgiven and the gift of the Holy Ghost given upon** Repentance + Baptism in the name of Jesus.**

Meaning, ANYONE (eg. living alone, in desert, in mountain tops, jungles etc) ONLY needs to Repent and be Baptized in the name of Jesus, and he/she will be saved upon receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Period.

Question: So, Where and how does the church, pope, mary etc etc come into the picture???

PS. By following Acts 2:38, it seems I don’t even need to know where is the Vatican. Or does someone/some people out there want to tell us that Peter did not complete his sentence or perhaps had said the wrong thing?

.

First of all you must be Baptized in the name of Father the name of the Son and the HS

 

[Bill_Pick]

What Cyberwolf said on here is that someone TOLD him something that was not CHurch teaching. Church teaching will show you that being Justified is easy, making it to heavin is hard.

And that agrees with Jesus 100%. Please choose your words carefully, lest you deny what Christ has said

raphnal, Be careful He is back keep a eye on him

 

[cargau]

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Reading the above, one understands clearly that sins are forgiven and the gift of the Holy Ghost given upon** Repentance + Baptism in the name of Jesus.**

Meaning, ANYONE (eg. living alone, in desert, in mountain tops, jungles etc) ONLY needs to Repent and be Baptized in the name of Jesus, and he/she will be saved upon receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Period.

Question: So, Where and how does the church, pope, mary etc etc come into the picture???

PS. By following Acts 2:38, it seems I don’t even need to know where is the Vatican. Or does someone/some people out there want to tell us that Peter did not complete his sentence or perhaps had said the wrong thing?

.

Salvation is incredibly simple but it is seldom easy. The recipe for salvation is love. Love of God and love of neighbor. Love is not instinctual, rather is is a determined act of the will. That is why making a proclamation that assures “a ticket” to salvation is contrary to the Good News.

In 1Corinthians, St Paul makes a teaches a beautiful lesson on love when he says, Though I command languages both human and angelic – if I speak without love, I am no more than a gong booming or a cymbal clashing.
2 And though I have the power of prophecy, to penetrate all mysteries and knowledge, and though I have all the faith necessary to move mountains – if I am without love, I am nothing.
3 Though I should give away to the poor all that I possess, and even give up my body to be burned – if I am without love, it will do me no good whatever.
4 Love is always patient and kind; love is never jealous; love is not boastful or conceited,
5 it is never rude and never seeks its own advantage, it does not take offence or store up grievances.
6 Love does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but finds its joy in the truth.

God is love. And if we have life in Him and He in us, we must be that love too. There is no other way. The Pope, Mary, Saints, Church are conduits of God’s grace and mercy that we may love as Jesus loves. Try not to be so hardhearted. God loves us all and through Him all things are possible…even salvation for you and me.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Reading the above, one understands clearly that sins are forgiven and
the gift of the Holy Ghost given upon** Repentance + Baptism in the name of Jesus.**

Meaning, ANYONE (eg. living alone, in desert, in mountain tops, jungles etc) ONLY needs to Repent and be Baptized in the name of Jesus, and he/she will be saved upon receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Period.

Question: So, Where and how does the church, pope, mary etc etc come into the picture???

PS. By following Acts 2:38, it seems I don’t even need to know where is the Vatican. Or does someone/some people out there want to tell us that Peter did not complete his sentence or perhaps had said the wrong thing?

.

Delete

 

[poetryforjesus]

Salvation is incredibly simple but it is seldom easy. The recipe for salvation is love. Love of God and love of neighbor. Love is not instinctual, rather is is a determined act of the will. That is why making a proclamation that assures “a ticket” to salvation is contrary to the Good News.

In 1Corinthians, St Paul makes a teaches a beautiful lesson on love when he says, Though I command languages both human and angelic – if I speak without love, I am no more than a gong booming or a cymbal clashing.
2 And though I have the power of prophecy, to penetrate all mysteries and knowledge, and though I have all the faith necessary to move mountains – if I am without love, I am nothing.
3 Though I should give away to the poor all that I possess, and even give up my body to be burned – if I am without love, it will do me no good whatever.
4 Love is always patient and kind; love is never jealous; love is not boastful or conceited,
5 it is never rude and never seeks its own advantage, it does not take offence or store up grievances.
6 Love does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but finds its joy in the truth.

God is love. And if we have life in Him and He in us, we must be that love too. There is no other way. The Pope, Mary, Saints, Church are conduits of God’s grace and mercy that we may love as Jesus loves. Try not to be so hardhearted. God loves us all and through Him all things are possible…even salvation for you and me.

This is a very good thread and I think this one is the best answer.

Anyone who thinks they have a guaruntee of inheritance and yet does not love God and his neighbor deceives themselves. What we inherit from God is not something outside of us; it is the beauty and glory of our soul, which can only be realized by conforming ourselves to the likeness of Christ. We will be saved to the extent of how much we resemble Christ. The more we resemble Him, the more glory we will have in heaven.

It is so easy to turn christianity into a contract–say such and such, do such and such, and you will be saved. No, salvation is about the Living Water of Christ’s love. Those who love God and love their neighbor do not worry about their salvation. Those who want an absolute guaruntee from God do not have in their heart a pure love for God and a true understanding of life.

If you want a guaruntee, you are not looking for God; you are only looking for an assurance to satisfy your own anxieties. Those who have found God need no guaruntee. They simply love and trust.