Catholics is this true?

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Jesus is the Way.

There is no other way, but the true and saving Gospel of Jesus.
Christian platitudes.
Yes, I confess to having a serious case of what you call the “me and Jesus disease”.
Rather obvious.
Becoming part of Jesus’ Church happens only after salvation.
She still waits for you to join.
The Church doesn’t save anyone.
So, Christ founded One Church for no reason? Have you judged him wrong? His Church does not guide Christians into all truth via the Holy Spirit? “On you (Kepha) I found My Church” (singular). You have apparently chosen to reject that Church and follow your own commands and a “new (churchless) Gospel”.

Two questions:
  1. Does the Holy Spirit unite?
  2. Does the demon divide?
 
There are some groups that claim the “authority” to kill those who disagree with them, but that does not make those groups right.
Says who? They got their inspiration from the bible. By the biblical standard, they are speaking the truth. What is your objective standard for calling them wrong? That you disagree with them? It is better to have more authority than that behind such a judgment.
 
There are some groups that claim the “authority” to kill those who disagree with them, but that does not make those groups right.
I think I know where this is going but, go ahead, explain.
 
I understand that your church believes that there is no salvation for me, since I reject the idea that I must also believe in the RCC’s version of salvation.

I most certainly reject your claim that I reject my Lord Jesus Christ though. My Faith rests entirely on the complete and perfect work of Jesus Christ, when He once died for my sin. Jesus paid it all.
“Ye are bought with a price. Be not ye the servants of men.” (1Cor. 7:23)
Jesus bought me with His precious shed Blood. Since God does not half-pay when He buys His sheep, I know that He bought and paid completely for me. I don’t have to worry about any nonsense that some sinful man comes up with to convince me otherwise.
I am now His willing servant, not the servant of men and their unbiblical “truths”.
Just as I understand that many of my fundamental friends believe that there is no salvation for me since I have chosen to follow the teachings of the apostles passed down through the Church instead of their individual pastor of denomination. How is this confidence any different?

And there is nothing unbiblical at all about the immaculate conception.
 
What I understand about how this doctrine came about does not impress me as trustworthy. Visions, miracles, etc. are claimed by many false prophets. There might be something to them, but it does not necessarily follow that it is by God.

The virgin birth and immaculate conception of Jesus is perfectly biblical gospel. Going further than that is unnecessary and unbiblical. The simple Gospel is sufficient without adding “new light”. I simply do not trust additions to the faith once delivered.
While this is not the thread to discuss this, and what you apparently do not understand or choose to ignore is that there is plenty of Scripture about Mary’s immaculate conception. Link a new thread to this one, start a new thread and I would love to discuss the scripture about Mary as the New Eve!!!

How do you study the Bible? I am constantly learning new things and understanding things personally. Don’t you? Doesn’t your pastor?

God Bless,
Maria
 
What I understand about how this doctrine came about does not impress me as trustworthy. Visions, miracles, etc. are claimed by many false prophets. There might be something to them, but it does not necessarily follow that it is by God.

The virgin birth and immaculate conception of Jesus is perfectly biblical gospel. Going further than that is unnecessary and unbiblical. The simple Gospel is sufficient without adding “new light”. I simply do not trust additions to the faith once delivered.
Luke 1
26 In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a town of Galilee called Nazareth,
27 to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the house of David, and the virgin’s name was Mary.
28 And coming to her, he said, “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.”

In calling her the “favored one” the angel Gabriel is saying that Mary was set aside for a special purpose. She was to be the mother of the Son of the Most Holy through the Holy Spirit. Now for the logic, if Jesus was fully God AND fully man and would have inherited attributes of both his parents, then he would have inherited from Mary. If Mary were subject to original sin, it would make sense that Jesus would have been subject to original sin and we can’t have that. So, in order for Mary to be the Holy vessel to carry Gods Son, it would make sense that God would have wanted her to be made as pure as possible. I can’t see God sending His Son to a dirty vessel. To make her pure enough to carry the Son of God, she had to be created without original sin, hense comes the first definition of Immaculate Conception.

Some reading suggestions that go back to at least the 2nd century AD

The Fathers call Mary the tabernacle exempt from defilement and corruption (Hippolytus, “Ontt. in illud, Dominus pascit me”);
Origen calls her worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, most complete sanctity, perfect justice, neither deceived by the persuasion of the serpent, nor infected with his poisonous breathings (“Hom. i in diversa”);
Ambrose says she is incorrupt, a virgin immune through grace from every stain of sin ("Sermo xxii in Ps. cxviii);
Maximus of Turin calls her a dwelling fit for Christ, not because of her habit of body, but because of original grace (“Nom. viii de Natali Domini”);
Theodotus of Ancyra terms her a virgin innocent, without spot, void of culpability, holy in body and in soul, a lily springing among thorns, untaught the ills of Eve, nor was there any communion in her of light with darkness, and, when not yet born, she was consecrated to God (“Orat. in S. Dei Genitr.”).
In refuting Pelagius St. Augustine declares that all the just have truly known of sin “except the Holy Virgin Mary, of whom, for the honour of the Lord, I will have no question whatever where sin is concerned” (On Nature and Grace 36).
Mary was pledged to Christ (Peter Chrysologus, “Sermo cxl de Annunt. B.M.V.”);
it is evident and notorious that she was pure from eternity, exempt from every defect (Typicon S. Sabae);
she was formed without any stain (St. Proclus, “Laudatio in S. Dei Gen. ort.”, I, 3);
she was created in a condition more sublime and glorious than all other natures (Theodorus of Jerusalem in Mansi, XII, 1140);
when the Virgin Mother of God was to be born of Anne, nature did not dare to anticipate the germ of grace, but remained devoid of fruit (John Damascene, “Hom. i in B. V. Nativ.”, ii).
The Syrian Fathers never tire of extolling the sinlessness of Mary. St. Ephraem considers no terms of eulogy too high to describe the excellence of Mary’s grace and sanctity: “Most holy Lady, Mother of God, alone most pure in soul and body, alone exceeding all perfection of purity …, alone made in thy entirety the home of all the graces of the Most Holy Spirit, and hence exceeding beyond all compare even the angelic virtues in purity and sanctity of soul and body . . . . my Lady most holy, all-pure, all-immaculate, all-stainless, all-undefiled, all-incorrupt, all-inviolate spotless robe of Him Who clothes Himself with light as with a garment . . . flower unfading, purple woven by God, alone most immaculate” (“Precationes ad Deiparam” in Opp. Graec. Lat., III, 524-37).
To St. Ephraem she was as innocent as Eve before her fall, a virgin most estranged from every stain of sin, more holy than the Seraphim, the sealed fountain of the Holy Ghost, the pure seed of God, ever in body and in mind intact and immaculate (“Carmina Nisibena”).
Jacob of Sarug says that “the very fact that God has elected her proves that none was ever holier than Mary; if any stain had disfigured her soul, if any other virgin had been purer and holier, God would have selected her and rejected Mary”. It seems, however, that Jacob of Sarug, if he had any clear idea of the doctrine of sin, held that Mary was perfectly pure from original sin (“the sentence against Adam and Eve”) at the Annunciation.

Even Martin Luther believed in the lack of original sin in Mary and her immaculate conception. The idea that it is untrue is a relatively new idea.

Enjoy and have fun.
 
What I understand about how this doctrine came about does not impress me as trustworthy. Visions, miracles, etc. are claimed by many false prophets. There might be something to them, but it does not necessarily follow that it is by God.

The virgin birth and immaculate conception of Jesus is perfectly biblical gospel. Going further than that is unnecessary and unbiblical. The simple Gospel is sufficient without adding “new light”. I simply do not trust additions to the faith once delivered.
I’ll pray for your lack of trust. Remember that a lie will not persist for 1,975 years. “There is nothing hidden that will not be brought to light.” (Matthew 10:26, Luke 8:17, 12:2) Simply put, is God omnipotent? Are all things possible to God? Of course! It’s faith and trust. You trust what Saint Joseph did, and the visions he saw, even though he utters not one word in scripture in explanation of them (Matthew 1:20, 2:13, 2:19).

As opposed to those who left our Lord in John 6 (John 6:66 - whose victory was this?) we are called to submit completely to Him. We are also called to follow His Spirit-lead church, which leads us into all truth. Man’s understanding of the Gospel was incomplete at the time of its revelation. It still is. Remember how Jesus had to ask the Apostles again and again “Have you been with me all this time and still do not understand?” (Matthew 15:16, many others)

The story is still unfolding, even though the ink on its written form dried millennia ago. Such is God’s truth. Man can and will never begin to have complete understanding of it - not in this life anyway. I cannot confine God to the box of the bible. He’s way too big for that. What Jesus did in just three years would fill the earth with books (John 20:30, 21:25), but we have only one of them. There’s clearly more.

Christ’s peace.
 
The Immaculate Conception is listed under Dogma in the New Advent Encyclopedia.
A dogma defined by the RCC must be accepted and believed by all church members or they are considered heretics and anathematized.
How have I been “heretical” by claiming that fact about the RCC?
Are you telling me that you don’t have to believe in the Immaculate Conception after the RCC defines it for you?
You are as guilty of the sin of arrogance as Luther, You come here and tell us what we believe and why we cant believe othewr things, when you are told you are wrong you ignore what is said, when you are asked a question you cant answer you ignore that.

I spend no time on protestant forums, why would I, I have no need, I am amazed at the number of protestants here and more amazed at the superiority with which they believe they have knowledge of catholisim. Where did you get your information?
Why are you at a cathl;oic forum, and finnally I have no frustration with my religion I have amusement those here who believe they can make points because they have read a position or they believe they have discovered a contradiction in catholisim. It reminds me of my children trying to formulate legal arguments because they wanted to engage me in conversation and though they lacked the training or education they pulled a few theories from research and then engaged in debate.
 
If God reveals a truth, and you refuse to believe it, obviously that leads to damnation. No one who chooses to believe they know better than God can be saved–that is the height of arrogance and faithlessness.
 
What I understand about how this doctrine came about does not impress me as trustworthy. Visions, miracles, etc. are claimed by many false prophets. There might be something to them, but it does not necessarily follow that it is by God.

The virgin birth and immaculate conception of Jesus is perfectly biblical gospel. Going further than that is unnecessary and unbiblical. The simple Gospel is sufficient without adding “new light”. I simply do not trust additions to the faith once delivered.
The problem with literalists is it limits and logical thinking is not allowed,

did jesus inhert mary’s original sin or was she just another Jewish girl? Logically yes, but the bible does not address it, therefore the majority protestant response is i dont think about things I dont think about because they arent part of scripture, scripture is all I need. Worship of scripture is akin to worship of self, I am capable of interpretating all that I need, you become like Luther full of pride.

The other problem with discussing an issue like this is catholic scholars have spent centuries on study of the scriptures and passed down questions and theology, we can’t compress that into 2 pages of response.
 
Okay, shed a little light here for me, somebody. Are we discussing the original point:
According to the official teaching of the Catholic Church, Catholic men and women are not allowed to believe what they read in the Bible without checking it out with the Catholic Church. They are required to find out how the bishops of the Church interpret a passage and they are to accept what the bishops teach as if it came from Jesus Christ Himself. They are not allowed to use their own judgment or follow their own conscience. They are required to believe whatever the bishops teach without questioning it.[31]
Or was that merely an opening for “The Mary Question,” huh? I’d just like to know before I spend any more time on reply posts.

And is this a discussion in the spirit of friendly inquiry or are we actually supposed to be bashing each other for the ways in which we follow Christ?

Just wondering. Seems to be getting as heated over here as it is on a certain non-Christian thread. 🤷
 
What I understand about how this doctrine came about does not impress me as trustworthy. Visions, miracles, etc. are claimed by many false prophets. There might be something to them, but it does not necessarily follow that it is by God.

The virgin birth and immaculate conception of Jesus is perfectly biblical gospel. Going further than that is unnecessary and unbiblical. The simple Gospel is sufficient without adding “new light”. I simply do not trust additions to the faith once delivered.
Since the Bible proceeds from the Catholic Church, anything that is “perfectly biblical” must be be perfectly Catholic.
 
You are as guilty of the sin of arrogance as Luther, You come here and tell us what we believe and why we cant believe othewr things, when you are told you are wrong you ignore what is said, when you are asked a question you cant answer you ignore that.

I spend no time on protestant forums, why would I, I have no need, I am amazed at the number of protestants here and more amazed at the superiority with which they believe they have knowledge of catholisim. Where did you get your information?
Why are you at a cathl;oic forum, and finnally I have no frustration with my religion I have amusement those here who believe they can make points because they have read a position or they believe they have discovered a contradiction in catholisim. It reminds me of my children trying to formulate legal arguments because they wanted to engage me in conversation and though they lacked the training or education they pulled a few theories from research and then engaged in debate.
I do not post in the forums set aside for Roman Catholics. This is a forum that seems to allow people such as myself to post. I actually have been learning quite a bit about what the RCC teaches and believes, although I obviously do not agree with a lot of it. Many of the RCC posters are pretty decent about the disagreements we have and they are often good with their counter-arguments. Your post does not seem to be any less arrogant than what you accuse me of being.
 
And it may seem just nitpicking (thought it’s really not), Jesus was not Immaculately Conceived. His was the Virgin Birth. The Immaculate Conception refers to Mary but only because she was to be the Ark of the New Covenant who would bear the Presence of God, as in, Jesus, Second Person of the Trinity, the Word.

There have been many tomes filled with theological meditations on all of this. But I would like to suggest to any reading this thread who are not Catholic: Please investigate what the Church actually teaches before criticizing those teachings. The Catechism is readily available at most secular bookstores for under $10. You can read it online for free. But please do check out these teachings for yourself. You don’t have to accept anyone’s opinion, you can easily find out the truth.
 
This free submission in Roman Catholicism, however, does also come with some fine print:

If anyone says otherwise to (such and such doctrine)…Let him be anathema (accursed).
anethema was a form of ritual excommunication no longer in the Code of Canon Law.
 
I do not post in the forums set aside for Roman Catholics. This is a forum that seems to allow people such as myself to post. I actually have been learning quite a bit about what the RCC teaches and believes, although I obviously do not agree with a lot of it. Many of the RCC posters are pretty decent about the disagreements we have and they are often good with their counter-arguments. Your post does not seem to be any less arrogant than what you accuse me of being.
Well, I have to say I agree with you. The tone of this thread has been turning somewhat less than charitable. Perhaps we should remember that we are searching for and investigating truth here and not mere opinions or agreement or disagreement. We want to arrive at truth. I assume that’s what any non-Catholics are here to do. I’m here to engage in conversation and discussion, to shed any light I can, and to learn as much as I can. I would like to think that other Catholics and non-Catholics were here to do the same. 🙂
 
I do not post in the forums set aside for Roman Catholics. This is a forum that seems to allow people such as myself to post. I actually have been learning quite a bit about what the RCC teaches and believes, although I obviously do not agree with a lot of it. Many of the RCC posters are pretty decent about the disagreements we have and they are often good with their counter-arguments. Your post does not seem to be any less arrogant than what you accuse me of being.
I believe part of your difficulty with this and many other Catholic doctrines is lack of understanding of how development of doctrine occurs as opposed to Scriptural interpretation, especially from Protestant interpretations. Most non-Catholics frown on Catholic doctrines that were a product of centuries of development and discernment by early doctors of the church yet take for granted their blind reliance on personal interpretation as gospel truth. It’s like expecting a 500 ton locomotive to stop on its track to give way to a lost dune buggy. This is what perplexes even the most objective Catholic posters.
My suggestion is to take a few moment to study Cardinal Newman’s Development of Doctrines and come see these doctrines again in a new light.😃
 
While this is not the thread to discuss this, and what you apparently do not understand or choose to ignore is that there is plenty of Scripture about Mary’s immaculate conception. Link a new thread to this one, start a new thread and I would love to discuss the scripture about Mary as the New Eve!!!

How do you study the Bible? I am constantly learning new things and understanding things personally. Don’t you? Doesn’t your pastor?

God Bless,
Maria
Hi Maria,
Thanks for the offer. I should have been more careful not to derail this thread’s original topic, so I plan to bow out of it for now. I see that there is already another thread on the Immaculate Conception still going on. It might be better for me to just sit on the sidelines for a while.
God Bless,
brkn1
 
Howdy there, brkn1. Don’t leave, okay? There’s absolutely no reason why you shouldn’t just continue right here. Unless the Immaculate Conception really is the main topic you’re interested in right now. I’ve been trying to find out if that’s the case. But it seems that there might be more topics you’re interested in too. If you have questions, just go ahead and ask. We can offer answers, and hopefully, all of us can be polite and adequately sensitive to others’ viewpoints and understand that not everyone here is Catholic. And even among Catholics there are people who don’t have all the answers.

So…got questions? 🙂

You can also ask a question in the Ask An Apologist section. That way you might avoid the heated debate debacle. 😃
 
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