Catholics & Israel / Zionism

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Doxiemom said:
It is , to me, a sad state of affairs when any of my fellow Christians fail to accept that God made that kind of covenant that is UNBREAKABLE. Do you believe that God would lie?

God said that He shall keep this covenant even if His People that He Chose to bring knowledge of Him to the world do not adhere to His Word. You can see this today in the secularism that exists in Israel and some Jews around the world.

The planet is groaning in labor pains. Mankind is at war or rumoring of war. Superbugs and some old-time enemies like tuberculosis kill us. Crop failures all about.

These are the things spoken of by the prophets and by Jesus Himself on Mt Olive . It is coming to pass. It must come to pass. Either Scripture is Truth or it is a lie. Yes, all or nothing.

And so it shall be that God is still persuing His Chosen. The ones who look away from Him and the ones who are looking for their Messiah. He is not finished yet because He does not lie.

Replacement theology is wrong. God has not replaced Judism with the Roman Catholic Church. What Jesus did was to graft us into the Abrahmic Covenant, expanding it, into a New and Everlasting Covenant. The Cup of His Blood- as i said, blood covenants are not breakable. Does God lie?
Yes, we are glad to convert anyone who want s to accept Christ of thier own will. But God has kept a remnant of the Chosen whose eyes and ears have been blinded and shut up since the Death of His Son not to see Him as Who is. Jews who adhere to the Law and tto the Talmud. They have been needed until that time when Jesus returns in Glory and they shall see and recognize Him and mourn for Him Whom they Pierced.
Jesus

That land belongs to the Jew. It was born on one day. As prophecied. It is a Jewish State with the likeness of a prayer shawl as its flag. Jews and gentiles can live there freely practicing their faiths or lack of thereof.

It is time for Christians to get over the idea that the jews killed Jesus Christ. The world killed Christ. But He came and died as Lamb because God needed everything to be done according to the jewish religion, asHe had established. He knew, did He not, that certain men and women would be alive at that paticular point to fulfill all prophecy, exactly.

All so that we may have our sins forgiven and have everlasting life, also.

Israel as a State had to be born again. I stand with Israel.

God is not finished yet and He will judge the nations according to how they have treated Israel and His Chosen.

Without any bad wll towards you all, I pray you seek God’s help on this subject and change your minds
Sincerely, in Christ
Doxiemom
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God does not lie. Humans who misunderstand what it is God wants us to know may disagree with the mind of God…who knows the mind of God…the Spirit searches the mind of God…you make the same mistake that Paul points out in Romans…It was not Faith in Abraham and the Covenant…for don’t you know that by one man’s sin we were made sinners and by one man’s obedience we were made righteous…we are children of Adam…and now see what love the father has that he calls us children of God and so we are…a land? or a People…
 
Doxiemom said:
Well, that was ugly.
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I agree. I have been reminded that on occasion I lack Charity. There could be a touch more Charity here. I took the liberty of condensing the posting and I agree with most of this without the emotion. I would say that God chooses the Church for all to be reconciled to himself…the mystery hidden for all ages, discussed in a post called “what is the revalation of the mystery”.

Catholics are His chosen people now. Jesus never told the Jews to keep their land.

And don’t tell me that I am anti-semitic, that is ridiculous. I disagree with Judaism as a religion as much as I disagree with Protestantism and Islam. I want to convert the Jews and let them see the error of their ways, not kill them or put them in ghettos

In the end, all that matters is to love God, join the Catholic Church, spread the faith and be united with people in the love of God and Mary. Whats important (and Catholics listen to me here) is not having a state supporting your religion or your own stupid race (and yes, all races, be they African, Jewish, American, German, English, Chinese, Japanese, Caucasian, white, green, Na’vi, etc… are as insignificant as the color of our eyes and to fight over which race is better is to lie and play a huge and cruel practical joke to yourself). We must spread our Catholic faith but we mustn’t persecute people to do it, we must convince them to join it.

I don’t want to discuss which is the true religion here, as there are numerous other threads discussing this and if you’re actually sincere in your religion, you should investigate it further and see its own errors (however, if you want a Catholic perspective on Judaism and the Talmud, don’t read The Talmud Unmasked. I actually believed it at first but then I did my research and found that the book falsified many quotes. The Talmud still has a lot of questionable and sorry to say, insane content, but it never says that Jews should clean a jar because a gentile touched it, though it does teach that Jews are or can be superior to Gentiles because they are the chosen people. Kaballah teaches this too. Obvious really. The book was written by anti-semitic Lithuanian Priest who himself hardly knew any Hebrew and was a fraud. Its not and never was the general view of Christian on Jews).
 
Doxiemom said:
It is , to me, a sad state of affairs when any of my fellow Christians fail to accept that God made that kind of covenant that is UNBREAKABLE. Do you believe that God would lie?

God said that He shall keep this covenant even if His People that He Chose to bring knowledge of Him to the world do not adhere to His Word. You can see this today in the secularism that exists in Israel and some Jews around the world.

The planet is groaning in labor pains. Mankind is at war or rumoring of war. Superbugs and some old-time enemies like tuberculosis kill us. Crop failures all about.

These are the things spoken of by the prophets and by Jesus Himself on Mt Olive . It is coming to pass. It must come to pass. Either Scripture is Truth or it is a lie. Yes, all or nothing.

And so it shall be that God is still persuing His Chosen. The ones who look away from Him and the ones who are looking for their Messiah. He is not finished yet because He does not lie.

Replacement theology is wrong. God has not replaced Judism with the Roman Catholic Church. What Jesus did was to graft us into the Abrahmic Covenant, expanding it, into a New and Everlasting Covenant. The Cup of His Blood- as i said, blood covenants are not breakable. Does God lie?

Yes, we are glad to convert anyone who want s to accept Christ of thier own will. But God has kept a remnant of the Chosen whose eyes and ears have been blinded and shut up since the Death of His Son not to see Him as Who is. Jews who adhere to the Law and tto the Talmud. They have been needed until that time when Jesus returns in Glory and they shall see and recognize Him and mourn for Him Whom they Pierced.
Jesus

That land belongs to the Jew. It was born on one day. As prophecied. It is a Jewish State with the likeness of a prayer shawl as its flag. Jews and gentiles can live there freely practicing their faiths or lack of thereof.

It is time for Christians to get over the idea that the jews killed Jesus Christ. The world killed Christ. But He came and died as Lamb because God needed everything to be done according to the jewish religion, asHe had established. He knew, did He not, that certain men and women would be alive at that paticular point to fulfill all prophecy, exactly.

All so that we may have our sins forgiven and have everlasting life, also.

Israel as a State had to be born again. I stand with Israel.

God is not finished yet and He will judge the nations according to how they have treated Israel and His Chosen.

Without any bad wll towards you all, I pray you seek God’s help on this subject and change your minds
Sincerely, in Christ
Doxiemom
Click to expand...
Jesus said, “it is finished”
There is a new covenant and the chosen people became His followers. The Church, the body of Christ.
 
Oh quit your “ANTI-SEMITE” rant and give it a rest, we’re tired of it. Christopher Hitchens is Jewish, he’s anti-zionist yet nobody calls him anti-semitic. I’m anti-zionist and nobody’s going to change my opinion of it because Zionism and the state of Israel are run by a bunch of racist bastards and freemasons who care only for their race to triumph and to take over the world, but nobody calls me anti-semitic as if I have a prejudice against the Jewish race. I hate and despise Zionism not because I think the Jews ar epunished by God but because it itself has an evil, racist intention.

I’m a supersessionist, which means that God’s covenant was fulfilled in the Catholic Church while Judaism before it was utterly changed by the Pharisees was only a symbol of the true religion. You make it sound like a bad thing, even though you Jews have similar views in regards you being the favored race by God. Its not a bad thing exactly, especially given how the old testament treated it but to drive Palestinians out instead of tolerating them and accepting them as your neighbors as if their race was unclean, to burn villages and kill innocent people just because you claim that God let you do it is just unacceptable.

What about Catholic persecutions of Jews? Even though we never did order in the slightest that Jews deserve death and when they were, the Popes issued statements and worked hard to prevent Christians from molesting them. At most, the Catholic Church’s statements on the Jews were unjust discrimination, not outright persecution and even then it didn’t have to do with race: the Church discriminated against the Muslims and false Muslim converts the same way in regards the Jews. I’m not talking about the Inquisitions persecution of conversos because they had no business being false Catholics; I’m not even talking about the killings of the Jews in the crusades and lynchings in the middle ages, because the Church condemned them and worked hard to stop them; I’m talking about the harsh laws which the third and fourth councils of Lateran instituted, forcing Jews to wear distinctive clothing and other laws and then there were Pius V’s even harsher laws, forcing Jews to sell their property and kicking them out of the Papal States except for ghettos like Rome and Ancona.

Despite that, I’m still Catholic, not because I appreciate Jewish suffering, far from it, but because the past actions of some Popes and Councils, through decrees which weren’t infallible as they were forms of government, not Church government, our faith is still not invalid. Its not like Catholics didn’t help Jews in their time of need, as this article will tell you: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Italy. For anyone who’s interested. Consequently, the Jews. I’m going to join Judaism not because I hate Zionism but because there is theological proof that Judaism isn’t valid anymore, not when the Catholic Church is the Church that is ramant with authenthic miracles and which did so much good in the world.

Because YOU’RE ANCESTORS suffered in the past from such persecutions and discrimination gives you no right whatsoever to do anything you want. Call me boisterous and racist, I’m ready for such sneers.
 
Doxiemom said:
It is , to me, a sad state of affairs when any of my fellow Christians fail to accept that God made that kind of covenant that is UNBREAKABLE. Do you believe that God would lie?
God said that He shall keep this covenant even if His People that He Chose to bring knowledge of Him to the world do not adhere to His Word. You can see this today in the secularism that exists in Israel and some Jews around the world.

The planet is groaning in labor pains. Mankind is at war or rumoring of war. Superbugs and some old-time enemies like tuberculosis kill us. Crop failures all about.

These are the things spoken of by the prophets and by Jesus Himself on Mt Olive . It is coming to pass. It must come to pass. Either Scripture is Truth or it is a lie. Yes, all or nothing.

And so it shall be that God is still persuing His Chosen. The ones who look away from Him and the ones who are looking for their Messiah. He is not finished yet because He does not lie.

Replacement theology is wrong. God has not replaced Judism with the Roman Catholic Church. What Jesus did was to graft us into the Abrahmic Covenant, expanding it, into a New and Everlasting Covenant. The Cup of His Blood- as i said, blood covenants are not breakable. Does God lie?

Yes, we are glad to convert anyone who want s to accept Christ of thier own will. But God has kept a remnant of the Chosen whose eyes and ears have been blinded and shut up since the Death of His Son not to see Him as Who is. Jews who adhere to the Law and tto the Talmud. They have been needed until that time when Jesus returns in Glory and they shall see and recognize Him and mourn for Him Whom they Pierced.
Jesus

That land belongs to the Jew. It was born on one day. As prophecied. It is a Jewish State with the likeness of a prayer shawl as its flag. Jews and gentiles can live there freely practicing their faiths or lack of thereof.

It is time for Christians to get over the idea that the jews killed Jesus Christ. The world killed Christ. But He came and died as Lamb because God needed everything to be done according to the jewish religion, asHe had established. He knew, did He not, that certain men and women would be alive at that paticular point to fulfill all prophecy, exactly.

All so that we may have our sins forgiven and have everlasting life, also.

Israel as a State had to be born again. I stand with Israel.

God is not finished yet and He will judge the nations according to how they have treated Israel and His Chosen.

Without any bad wll towards you all, I pray you seek God’s help on this subject and change your minds
Sincerely, in Christ
Doxiemom
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Tell me, for I do not know, why you ask if God would lie? What is this understanding of Covenant you believe is so important that you continually argue for it? Help me understand how it is you believe this? Are you of the Dispensational belief system?
 
Doxiemom said:
It is , to me, a sad state of affairs when any of my fellow Christians fail to accept that God made that kind of covenant that is UNBREAKABLE. Do you believe that God would lie?

God said that He shall keep this covenant even if His People that He Chose to bring knowledge of Him to the world do not adhere to His Word. You can see this today in the secularism that exists in Israel and some Jews around the world.

The planet is groaning in labor pains. Mankind is at war or rumoring of war. Superbugs and some old-time enemies like tuberculosis kill us. Crop failures all about.

These are the things spoken of by the prophets and by Jesus Himself on Mt Olive . It is coming to pass. It must come to pass. Either Scripture is Truth or it is a lie. Yes, all or nothing.

And so it shall be that God is still persuing His Chosen. The ones who look away from Him and the ones who are looking for their Messiah. He is not finished yet because He does not lie.

Replacement theology is wrong. God has not replaced Judism with the Roman Catholic Church. What Jesus did was to graft us into the Abrahmic Covenant, expanding it, into a New and Everlasting Covenant. The Cup of His Blood- as i said, blood covenants are not breakable. Does God lie?

Yes, we are glad to convert anyone who want s to accept Christ of thier own will. But God has kept a remnant of the Chosen whose eyes and ears have been blinded and shut up since the Death of His Son not to see Him as Who is. Jews who adhere to the Law and tto the Talmud. They have been needed until that time when Jesus returns in Glory and they shall see and recognize Him and mourn for Him Whom they Pierced.
Jesus

That land belongs to the Jew. It was born on one day. As prophecied. It is a Jewish State with the likeness of a prayer shawl as its flag. Jews and gentiles can live there freely practicing their faiths or lack of thereof.

It is time for Christians to get over the idea that the jews killed Jesus Christ. The world killed Christ. But He came and died as Lamb because God needed everything to be done according to the jewish religion, asHe had established. He knew, did He not, that certain men and women would be alive at that paticular point to fulfill all prophecy, exactly.

All so that we may have our sins forgiven and have everlasting life, also.

Israel as a State had to be born again. I stand with Israel.

God is not finished yet and He will judge the nations according to how they have treated Israel and His Chosen.

Without any bad wll towards you all, I pray you seek God’s help on this subject and change your minds
Sincerely, in Christ
Doxiemom
Click to expand...
Let me ask another question concerning the Holy Land. If there is a notion of the Holy Land and that is not the dispute. Let’s just agree that there is. When does the land stop being Holy? What are the boundaries? Do the boundaries change and if they do does that land stop being Holy? Is God somehow bounded in as it regards Holiness of the land? This would be novel for God has no boundaries. If God set foot on Earth…do we only mark where those footsteps can be registered as Holy or does the holiness emanate a certain distance and who determines that distance? Take your time.👍
 
KnightIHSV said:
I was wondering if there is a good book or resource on the Catholic Church’s attitude to the establishment of a Jewish homeland in the 19th and early 20th centuries?

I am (obviously) a Catholic and am also a believer in a Jewish homeland. My understanding is that the Church has never had an official position either for or against Zionism. Is this true?

I realise that the Church is the protector of the Palestinian Christians, however suspect they have a better life as Christians in Israel than as Christians living in a Hamas-stan or what is now happening to the Copts in Egypt.

Thanks for any help.
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Catholic Archbishop Elias Chacour from Galilee wrote: Blood Brothers here is a link to Amazon to get the book: amazon.com/Blood-Brothers-Elias-Chacour/dp/0800793218%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAINWTLHI2USOG4VUA%26tag%3Dbookrags%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3D0800793218

I found this brief summary of the beginning of the book…

*“Elias Chacour enjoyed a simple childhood in Biram, a small village in Galilee. School, church, and family met his needs and nurtured his soul, so he grew in the security of love and spirituality. Even as a young child, he particularly enjoyed going off by himself to talk with his hero, Jesus, a man he came to know not just as the Christian savior but as a human with strength and purpose. Life as he knew it came to a violent and crushing end, however, as World War II ended and Zionist Jews, with their militias, moved into Palestine, confiscating Palestinian land, routing entire villages, and driving the natives from their own land. Elias’ family was forced from their village,” *

& I also found this quote from the Archbishop from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elias_Chacour:

*In 2001, Chacour gave an address at commencement at Emory University, in Atlanta, Georgia where he accepted an honorary degree.[1] . An excerpt from his speech:

**“ You who live in the United States, if you are pro-Israel, on behalf of the Palestinian children I call unto you: give further friendship to Israel. They need your friendship. But stop interpreting that friendship as an automatic antipathy against me, the Palestinian who is paying the bill for what others have done against my beloved Jewish brothers and sisters in the Holocaust and Auschwitz and elsewhere.

And if you have been enlightened enough to take the side of the Palestinians – oh, bless your hearts – take our sides, because for once you will be on the right side, right? But if taking our side would mean to become one-sided against my Jewish brothers and sisters, back up. We do not need such friendship. We need one more common friend. We do not need one more enemy, for God’s sake.**” *

Archbishop Elias Chacour is very strong activist for Peace despite the horrors he personally and his family and all Palestinian Christians have endured and continue to endure from Israel.
 
ComeHome2Rome said:
Catholic Archbishop Elias Chacour from Galilee wrote: Blood Brothers here is a link to Amazon to get the book: amazon.com/Blood-Brothers-Elias-Chacour/dp/0800793218%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAINWTLHI2USOG4VUA%26tag%3Dbookrags%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3D0800793218

I found this brief summary of the beginning of the book…

*“Elias Chacour enjoyed a simple childhood in Biram, a small village in Galilee. School, church, and family met his needs and nurtured his soul, so he grew in the security of love and spirituality. Even as a young child, he particularly enjoyed going off by himself to talk with his hero, Jesus, a man he came to know not just as the Christian savior but as a human with strength and purpose. Life as he knew it came to a violent and crushing end, however, as World War II ended and Zionist Jews, with their militias, moved into Palestine, confiscating Palestinian land, routing entire villages, and driving the natives from their own land. Elias’ family was forced from their village,” *

& I also found this quote from the Archbishop from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elias_Chacour:

*In 2001, Chacour gave an address at commencement at Emory University, in Atlanta, Georgia where he accepted an honorary degree.[1] . An excerpt from his speech:

**“ You who live in the United States, if you are pro-Israel, on behalf of the Palestinian children I call unto you: give further friendship to Israel. They need your friendship. But stop interpreting that friendship as an automatic antipathy against me, the Palestinian who is paying the bill for what others have done against my beloved Jewish brothers and sisters in the Holocaust and Auschwitz and elsewhere.

And if you have been enlightened enough to take the side of the Palestinians – oh, bless your hearts – take our sides, because for once you will be on the right side, right? But if taking our side would mean to become one-sided against my Jewish brothers and sisters, back up. We do not need such friendship. We need one more common friend. We do not need one more enemy, for God’s sake.***”

Archbishop Elias Chacour is very strong activist for Peace despite the horrors he personally and his family and all Palestinian Christians have endured and continue to endure from Israel.
Click to expand...
I am pro-people…

The earliest Christian communities in Palestine were of Jewish descent. Those were joined in the first and second centuries by Greeks. The vast majority of Palestinian Christians followed the Byzantine Christianity of the emperors after the Council of Chalcedon in 451 A.D., and were known by other Syrian Christian as Melkites. The Melkites were heavily Hellenised in the following centuries abandoning their distinct Western Aramaic languages in favour of Greek. By the 7th century, Jerusalem and Palestine became the epicentre of Greek culture in the orient/
Soon after the Muslim conquests, the Melkites began abandoning Greek for Arabic, a process which made them the most Arabicised Christians in the Levant.
Most Palestinian Christians nowadays see themselves as Arab Christians. In addition, they claim descent from a mixture of Jews who converted to Christianity in the first three centuries AD (also known as Jewish Christians, Byzantine, pre-Islamic Arabs (Ghassanids), Crusaders and Armenians. The region called Israel/Palestine is considered the Holy Land by Christians. Major Christian holy cities such as Bethlehem, Nazareth and Jerusalem are located in Israel and the Palestinian territories.

Around 50% of Palestinian Christians belong to the Orthodox Church of Jerusalem, one of the 16 churches of Eastern Orthodoxy. This community has also been known as the Arab Orthodox Christians. There are also Maronites, Melkite-Eastern Catholics, Jacobites, Chaldeans, Roman Catholics (locally known as Latins), Syriac Catholics, Orthodox Copts, Catholic Copts, Armenian Orthodox and Armenian Catholic. These are the people of Christ and the Apostles.

Palestinians are not just Arab Muslims.🙂
 
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