Catholics need to submit themselves to Allah

[R_not]

OK, we know that God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. If God is Allah, then that means Allah is the Holy Trinity - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Therefore, all muslims must worship the Holy Trinity. Try convincing them of that and see how far you get.

As far as islam being an abrahamic religion, it is only so because muslims claim it is. They claim Abraham practiced islam. Yet nowhere in Genesis do we have Abraham practicing anything that muhammed taught. Therefore the claim is a false one.

By their fruit you shall know them. The fruit of islam is butchery, subjugation, misogyny, etc. This is the worship of satan, not God. No matter what name they choose to give him.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

Benjamin, your points are not without merit, but your phrasing “submit themselves to Allah” presents the relationship as a slave-Master one (Islam), not a child-Father one (Christianity).

Right. We are slaves of God, but also Children. Just look at the lifes of saints, and please tell me Saint Bernard didnt submit himself to God when he spend 3 years of his life in a cave praying and fasting. Tell me that Saint Anthony didnt submit to God when he gave up a social life and went to the desert to do the same. What about saint. Francis ect…

 

[Jehuty_X]

why do some people keep sayings things like Allah is not God. Did you not know that Allah is jut another name for God? Even Jesus calls His Father Allah in various Bibles in a different language. I dont get when Catholics on this site keep stating Allah is not God. I can comprehend why a lot of you are unwilling to justify Mohammeds actions, but saying that Muslims worship another God is just bogus to me. Even John Paull II said we all worship the **same** God in front of a Muslim crowd. So whats the deal with that? Only Because Mohammed used the name of Allah to get away with sinful acts, dosent mean other peacful Moslems do the same. They just dont know better. They are Moslems because they have been brought up that way.

I am basically saying that Jews and Muslims worship the Father of Jesus, and I don`t think its fair for anybody else to deny that.

May God Bless all of you.

// i will NOT submit to satan, i mean allah nor will i worship satan, i mean allah!!! NEVER!!!

// may God bless you!

 

[MHalsey]

Right. We are slaves of God, but also Children. Just look at the lifes of saints, and please tell me Saint Bernard didnt submit himself to God when he spend 3 years of his life in a cave praying and fasting. Tell me that Saint Anthony didnt submit to God when he gave up a social life and went to the desert to do the same. What about saint. Francis ect…

But do they do that out of love for the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit, or out of submission to their “master”? Obviously the former.

 

[R_not]

Benjamin, in islam they wouldn’t be hiding in a cave, they would be waging jihad - that violent kind. And in islam it is not a worthy pursuit to do anything other than marry and have a lot of muslims to populate the earth and push their agenda down our throats.

Maybe if you blogged with muslims you would find out they do not either think Jesus was without kids, or that if He was that it was an honorable thing for Him to do. As many wives as a muslim male can handle and have as many kids as they can is the course of the day for muslims.

The violent jihad is considered the most holy of jihads - and it is mentioned over 90% of the time in the koran and hadiths. The ‘inner struggle’ is mentioned along with other jihads about 3% of the time in the koran.

martyrdom in islam is the dying while murdering non-muslims. martyrdom in Christianity is dying for one’s faith by people such as muslims, or others who hate you because of one’s faith.

Maybe if you did an itty bitty of research into islam you would find your beliefs about islam just are not true. It might be what muslims tell you that they want you to believe, but it isn’t true.

They quite often use our Christianity, or Catholicism, or Pope’s words, against us when they try to brainwash us about islam. They are practicing da’wa. And along with da’wa is deception which is fully sanctioned in islam to do.

taqiyya (pronounced tark-e-ya) : precautionary dissimulation or deception and keeping one’s convictions secret and a

synonymous term, kitman: mental reservation and dissimulation or concealment of malevolent intentions…

 

[R_not]

I couldn’t say this any better than a fellow poster about taqiyya/kithman.

Taqiyya and Kitman, by sedonaman

“It has been quite an effort to prevent Infidels from getting the wrong (that is to say, the right) impression of Islam, at least until such time as Muslims in the West currently singing the praises of ‘pluralism’ no longer have need for Infidel good will and tolerance. To date, the twin techniques of ‘taqiyya’ and tu-quoque have been relied on. ‘taqiyya’ is the religiously-sanctioned doctrine, with its origins in Shi’a Islam but now practiced by non-Shi’a as well, of deliberate dissimulation about religious matters that may be undertaken to protect Islam, and the Believers. A related term, of broader application, is ‘kitman,’ which is defined as ‘mental reservation.’ An example of ‘taqiyya’ would be the insistence of a Muslim apologist that ‘of course’ there is freedom of conscience in Islam, and then quoting that Qur’anic verse – ‘There shall be no compulsion in religion.’ But the impression given will be false, for there has been no mention of the Muslim doctrine of abrogation, or naskh, whereby such an early verse as that about ‘no compulsion in religion’ has been cancelled out by later, far more intolerant and malevolent verses. In any case, history shows that within Islam there is, and always has been, ‘compulsion in religion’ for Muslims, and for non-Muslims. The ‘compulsion’ for Muslims comes from the treatment of apostasy as an act punishable by death. And though ‘dhimmis’ are allowed to practice their religion, they do so under conditions of such burdens and restrictions that many, not as an act of conscience but rather as a response to inexorable Muslim pressure, have converted (or ‘reverted’) to Islam.

“‘Kitman’ is close to ‘taqiyya,’ but rather than outright dissimulation, it consists in telling only a part of the truth, with ‘mental reservation’ justifying the omission of the rest. One example may suffice. When a Muslim maintains that ‘jihad’ really means ‘a spiritual struggle,’ and fails to add that this definition is a recent one in Islam (little more than a century old), he misleads by holding back, and is practicing ‘kitman.’ When he adduces, in support of this doubtful proposition, the hadith in which Muhammad, returning home from one of his many battles, is reported to have said (as known from a chain of transmitters, or isnad), that he had returned from ‘the Lesser Jihad to the Greater Jihad’ and does not add what he also knows to be true, that this is a ‘weak’ hadith, regarded by the most-respected muhaddithin as of doubtful authenticity, he is further practicing ‘kitman’.”

taqiyya/kithman

 

[Benjamin8o8]

But do they do that out of love for the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit, or out of submission to their “master”? Obviously the former.

you`re right brethren, they do that out of love, but remember they submit out of love. Submission is the word.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

OK, we know that God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. If God is Allah, then that means Allah is the Holy Trinity - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Therefore, all muslims must worship the Holy Trinity. Try convincing them of that and see how far you get.

As far as islam being an abrahamic religion, it is only so because muslims claim it is. They claim Abraham practiced islam. Yet nowhere in Genesis do we have Abraham practicing anything that muhammed taught. Therefore the claim is a false one.

By their fruit you shall know them. The fruit of islam is butchery, subjugation, misogyny, etc. This is the worship of satan, not God. No matter what name they choose to give him.

yes, but remember the Father and The Son, and The Holy Spirit is a HOLY MYSTERY. Only because someone dosent belive the Son and The Holy Spirit arnt the other 2 persons in one God dosen´t give you any right to say they dont believe in God. Unless you know exactly what 3 persons in 1 God means. And I am pretty sure you dont, none of us do.

“As far as islam being an abrahamic religion, it is only so because muslims claim it is” Not only that, but also because they believe it. That is the difference. Its in their doctrine, they believe in the God of Abraham. They believe Abraham practiced Islam. I am not saying its true, Iam just saying what they believe. R_Not claims they worship a moon god which is a flat out lie.

“This is the worship of satan, not God. No matter what name they choose to give him” Again, you`re right. But what did Jesus say? “Even the devils believe”

Can you guys please tell me in what you don`t agree with me?

 

[Benjamin8o8]

Then read your own bible and as far as the Pope goes. He oversteps his boundaries when speaking of another ‘religion’. And it is NOT a sin to know islam, to disagree with the Pope on this matter and IT IS A SIN to worship other Gods, such as allah. In fact, if you read the posts I posted earlier you will read that time and again God warned us of worshiping the sun, MOON, and stars.

I will respect them as human beings but I do not respect islam, nor do I respect their ‘prophet’ or koran. It is a vile religion that had to have its own definitions for sin because so many sins are allowed in islam such as murder, theft, lying, lusting after another’s possessions and women, etc.

I find your excuse for not backing up your assertions just more of the same I get from muslims who cannot deal with others bringing out their own religion’s teachings and who scurry away.

The Pope didn`t overstep NO BOUNDRIES. Remember, when the Saint. John Paul II got shot by a Muslim, he was in a hospital with the Blessed Virgin comforting him, while people like you man… were reading anti-Islam sites. This is why John Paul II kissed the Koran while you highlight the satanic verses. The big difference is: John Paul II acknowledged all of us being children of Allah, while you believe in conspiracy theories. You need to stop that, and think above that. Because us Christians can not behave the way Mohammad-likes do, rather become true Muslims and submit ourselves to Jesus Christ who is Allah!

Also, I didn*t back up any assertions because I don`t have any. I wasnt saying we have similar teachings, but we have a similar belief in the God of Abraham. Thats all.

 

[MHalsey]

you`re right brethren, they do that out of love, but remember they submit out of love. Submission is the word.

But the difference has to do with relationship - master/slave or child/father. You insist on equating the them, but there no similarity between the 2 relationships, even when you use the word “submit”.

As a child I submit to my Father’s will. I do not submit to his demands as a slave would his master. See the difference?

 

[Benjamin8o8]

But the difference is has to do with relationship - master/slave or child/father. You insist on equating the them, but there no similarity between the 2 relationships, even when you use the word “submit”.

As a child I submit to my Father’s will. I do not submit to his demands as a slave would his master. See the difference?

yes, thanks for clarifiyng. And thats what I meant when I said “Catholics need to submit themselves to Allah”. I meant what you meant

 

[MHalsey]

yes, thanks for clarifiyng. And thats what I meant when I said “Catholics need to submit themselves to Allah”. I meant what you meant

The problem is that this confuses the issue.

Trying to convince Catholics to use muslim terminology is a fruitless exercise. Why not try convincing the muslims that they must give up the idea of worshiping an imperfect god, Allah, and convince them to worship the Holy Trinity?

 

[Jay53]

You need to stop that, and think above that. Because us Christians can not behave the way Mohammad-likes do, rather **become true Muslims **and submit ourselves to Jesus Christ who is Allah!

Sorry, but I have to disagree with this. You obviously don’t understand what it means to be a “true Muslim”. Sister Amy has said on these forums that the Muslims who don’t believe in the religion as practiced by Muhammad and his companions (including jihad and all that goes along with it) are not real Muslims or are “pseudo” Muslims. In other words, they are not practicing the full faith. I have more respect for those Muslims who disagree with those aspects of Islam (like planten - although that’s probably one of the only things I agree with him on. ) and condemn those actions that are not peaceful (i.e. killing apostates), however those are the ones that are NOT considered “true Muslims”.

 

[Booklover]

I agree with you, and that is what I am stating. We Catholics should submit ourselves to Allah, and we do. Its just the conspiracy theorists that want to divide the brotherhood we share with our islamic brothers in Allah/God/Jesus.

Did the God of Abraham dictate the Quran? NO!
Muslims worship the so-called “deity” who did, and that’s Muhammad, so Muslims do not worship the same God we do! And as for “brotherhood”, how can there be one with them since they consider us inferior to them and worthy of being lied to, humiliated, stolen from, raped, and subjugated or killed by them?

I WILL NEVER SUBMIT TO ISLAM’S FALSE GOD!

Vickie

 

[Benjamin8o8]

The problem is that this confuses the issue.

Trying to convince Catholics to use muslim terminology is a fruitless exercise. Why not try convincing the muslims that they must give up the idea of worshiping an imperfect god, Allah, and convince them to worship the Holy Trinity?

the main purpose of this thread is to say that Muslims and Jesus are the same God. And if I ever get a chance to attempt to convince that Mohammed was wrong and Abraham, Moses, and our Lord Jesus was right, I will.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with this. You obviously don’t understand what it means to be a “true Muslim”. Sister Amy has explicitly said on these forums that the Muslims who don’t believe in the jihad and all that goes along with it are not real Muslims or “pseudo” Muslims. In other words, they are not practicing the full faith. I have more respect for those Muslims who disagree with those aspects of Islam (like planten - although that’s probably one of the only things I agree with him on. ) and condemn those actions that are not peaceful (i.e. killing apostates), however those are the ones that are NOT considered “true Muslims”.

When I said “true Muslims” I wasnt talking about Islam at all, I was basiicaly adressing the term "muslim" as an adjective (someone who submits to God). Thats what I meant.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

Did the God of Abraham dictate the Quran? NO!
Muslims worship the so-called “deity” who did, and that’s Muhammad, so Muslims do not worship the same God we do! And as for “brotherhood”, how can there be one with them since they consider us inferior to them and worthy of being lied to, humiliated, stolen from, raped, and subjugated or killed by them?

I WILL NEVER SUBMIT TO ISLAM’S FALSE GOD!

Vickie

They worship the God of Abraham, and they believe the God of Abraham dicated the Koran. Im not saying God did, but its what they believe. Again, youre not contradicting anything I said exept for your last statement.

I will submit to Allah, and I do. because Jesus is Allah

“We all worship the same God” John Paul II

 

[Jay53]

When I said “true Muslims” I wasnt talking about Islam at all, I was basiicaly adressing the term "muslim" as an adjective (someone who submits to God). Thats what I meant.

I understand what you’re trying to say. You are just confusing the issue by using words that don’t mean the same thing to all people. In the U.S. (possibly to all those who speak English), Allah is understood to be God as referred to by Muslims. The term “muslim” while technically meaning “one who submits (to God)” is understood to mean those who practice Islam. As a Christian, I would never use the term “Allah” in reference to God in my own prayer and worship or refer to myself as a “muslim” even though I do submit myself to God and His Will.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

I understand what you’re trying to say. You are just confusing the issue by using words that don’t mean the same thing to all people. In the U.S. (possibly to all those who speak English), Allah is understood to be God as referred to by Muslims. The term “muslim” while technically meaning “one who submits (to God)” is understood to mean those who practice Islam. As a Christian, I would never use the term “Allah” in reference to God in my own prayer and worship or refer to myself as a “muslim” even though I do submit myself to God and His Will.

then were on the same page. :) I was just trying to say that I believe in the same God muslims believe, I dont follow Mohammeds teachings like they do.

 

[inJESUS]

Actually the matter is rather simple, and i don’t understand why many do not grasp it fully. Muslims say they worship the One, the creator they name Allah. If we say, this Allah (creator) is not God (Creator), it means we are saying there are 2 creators, Allah and God when in fact there is only One God, whether you call it Allah, Aloho , Dieu or whatever other name. This does not mean that we worship Allah who swears by horses or Allah who condones adultry or Allah who doesn’t know Christianity…in other words, we do not worship God/Allah as taught by Muhammad, and the word Allah is simply a word like God to Arab Christians, nothing less nothing more. I can understand an Arab Christian using this word, after all Arabic is in debt to other languages, and the word Allah is no exception, but i wouldn’t expect a non-Arab to use it simply because it is supposed to be alien to his language.