I hope I can come across better with gentleness and respect. I like your location of “in Christ”. I personally believe that our vital union with Christ is the key to the Christian life. You seem to say something very similar since your location is “in Christ”.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. Scott Hahn used to believe just like me - A Reformed Calvinist from the PCA Church.
Adam God Bless you in your posts. I agree with you 100%. I know many Catholics including my dear husband who never read his Bible until we got married. Now he is always searching for scripture. You are a real blessing to me and my dear brother in Christ. Keep up the good work and Bless you in your journey with our Lord.Thanks for sharing your perspective. Scott Hahn used to believe just like me - A Reformed Calvinist from the PCA Church.
No, the “Church of Christ” which you described is the one I denied: followers of Alexander Campbell. We believe what Ephesians 2:8-10 plainly states: “For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast. We are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus, unto good works; which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.” Baptism is a good work-- it does not save. This got us in real trouble from other “Christians”, when we refused to baptize our infants. Many “christians” think that somehow we are saved by our church membership and good works.
So can you supply a list of all the essential doctrines?
Catholics and Protestants speak of the work of the Spirit - yet they have 2 different canons. What’s going on there? They can’t both be right. So who’s got the right canon? Who gets to decide?
No, we are in agreement that the Scriptures are God-Breathed. So is the Church!
Both things are true! Catholics believe the HS does not tell modern Christians something different than He told the first Christians.
This last statement contradicts the first. If we are all in agreement that the flesh can confuse people, then we are in agreement that there are many persons who believe they are Christians who do not recognize the work of the HS, including which books of the Bible are inspired.
This is a reference to the Preached Gospel (Sacred Tradition). Catholics have followed the Apostolic commandment to preserve this.
Both things are true. The Spirit bears witness to our hearts, and the Church has received and preserved the revelation of the HS.
No, we are in agreement on this point.
No, 2nd. Jesus is the Truth. He revealed Himself to His Apostles. The Truth existed prior to the NT, and the Truth He revealed to the Church should not be separated from the writings that were produced by it. The Church has always read the Scriptures from the point of view of Jesus revelation of Truth (Sacred Tradition). Truth is found in the written revelation, but it will not contradict the part of the revelation that is not written.
When do you think the HS abandoned the Church? Was that before the councils? Since you reject the decisions of the councils, may be it is because you don’t believe they were guided by the HS? Do you think the Council of Jerusalem described in Acts happened without the HS?
Indeed, we do miss this point. We are to embrace all that God has revealed to the Church. Granted, He has only given part of the revelation, but we are not permitted to reject parts of what He has given. The deposit of faith is an inseparable whole.
The “perfect” is the second coming of Christ. Until that time, we are obligated to hold fast to the traditions, just as they have been delivered to us.
Bold isn’t considered shouting - CAPS is.
All this coming from a guy who misrepresents the words of Benedict VXI in regards to Luther and runs when I call him on it. You have yet to address this.
No, 2nd. The Catechism is the explanation of the Word of God for the present day. It cannot contradict anything that God has previously revealed. Scripture is clear that men, inspired by God, spoke. This is the HS working through people. The people that wrote the NT were Catholic men.
No one has claimed that He is. What we have claimed is that He does not reveals something to modern denominations that is opposite of what He has previously revealed to the Church.
There you go, 2nd. Who did the “writing down”? Hint, their names are on the books, and they were Catholics.
Yes. We are trying to do for you what Prisca and Aquila did for Apollos.
2nd, Love rejoices in the Truth, not error. Departure from what the Apostles believed and taught is an error. It is not an opportunity for affection, but for pain.
There is no anger in this post, 2nd. Frustration maybe, exasperation, because YOU ARE NOT LISTENING. No anger tho. It is not charitable, Christlike, or loving to confirm people in error. The Bible is brought to you through the Catholic Church. It was written, collected, preserved, canonized and promulgated by Catholics. Even the Reformers accept this. If you cannot, I don’t know how we can get any further in your goal of reading Scripture together. You really have no basis for believing what you have in front of you is Scripture. Basically all you have given us is your own testimony to the burning in your own bosom - the same criteria Mormons use to claim their book is Scripture.
I am glad you are reading the Catechism, 2nd.
This would be a very narrow, uneducated, and myopic view of the Reformation. It really had nothing to do with doctrine at all. It had to do with corruption of persons claiming to represent the doctrine. The doctrine of the church has never changed. However, the wolves that were claiming to represent the Church, giving a corrupted image of that doctrine, combined with a plethora of political, economic, and other forces to form division and separation.
The Catholic doctrine has never changed.
This is a true statement.
I guess you believe this because you also believe that Jesus is too weak or disintersted to keep His promise to the Church to lead them into all Truth.
The Person and work of Christ are in the world through the Church, which is the fulness of Him who is her Head. That is why there is no salvation outside the Church.
I guess what you are saying is that we should not be grateful to the church for revealing the Truth of Christ for us. Or maybe you are saying we should be grateful to God, in spite of the Church?
I agree that the apparent contradictions are our finite limitations to understand. I also agree that God does not contradict. There is no contradiction inside the written word,and no contradiciton between the Word of God in the Church (sacred tradition) and the written word.
I think this is the best way you know, because you are separated from the Apostolic Tradition. I agree that it is better than nothing.
I think your statement is misleading. You have stated that you do not believe the Catholic Church contains the Teaching of the Apostles, so when you say “catholic church tells them” you are really referring to what you believe are man made opinions. Given that, no, I cannot agree with your statement.
I think you need to start a new thread on this, 2nd, or go to one that has already been started. I suggest Apologetics. It is a frequent topic here at CAF. Don’t be scared.
Try to stay on the topic thread, 2nd or it is going to get shut down. I also think it is a bad idea for you to come to a Catholic Forum and tell Catholics what they “should” do with regard to their faith practice. You may need to review the forum rules.
Did you miss that post? He has the burning in the bosom!
This is another really good thread starter that you could put in Apologetics. It is off topic in this thread.
No. A lie is a deliberate attempt to deceive someone. On the contrary, bookgirl has made an observation about how you come across, with your condescending tone, and your instructions on how Catholics “should” believe. You may say you know in part, but your actions speak louder than your words.
On what basis do you believe or accept any of these things? They all come from the Catholic church!
I’m not, at this particular moment anyway, interested in scriptural study of 2 Peter 1 specifically. I’m interested in the fact that you agree with the concept I’ve put forth that two different people can come to two completely different interpretations of that scripture passage and why you think that is.
Which is to say that you are your own authority. What is authoritative for you is how you understand what scripture says. This is a good example of why Jesus gave authority to persons, rather than books.
No, 2nd. The Catholic faith was whole and entire before any “protestant view” existed. There is no protestantism “blended” into Catholicism. The only “blending” here is in your head.
No. just emphatic.
People here get emphatic with you because you don’t seem to be listening.
Yes. All we can do is go on what you have posted.
Just goes to show there is hope!Thanks for sharing your perspective. Scott Hahn used to believe just like me - A Reformed Calvinist from the PCA Church.
Sometimes.
I honestly believe that most of the time, you have no clue how disrespectful and condescending you come across.
That is because the harnony and unity you imagine does not exist. To the extent you have been separated from the Apostolic Teachings, your views are not in harmony and unity.
Not entirely here 2nd. Many read and appreciate posts that you cannot, because we are open,and willing to hear what is said. There are also about 10 times more people reading the thread than there are posting. Many will read these emphatic posts and learn from them.
If you have a complaint, 2nd, use the little triangle at the upper right of the post. Tell the moderator what has offended you. If the other member is in violation of the forum rules they will be warned or disciplined.
It’s the glasses.
All these elements are products of the Catholic faith. If we dont’ need to discuss them, it is because you have accepted the Apostolic Teaching through the Catholic Church.
I honestly don’t think he knows he comes across this way.
No, 2nd. this would be a misunderstanding. All of the areas are part of CAF. While I agree that this is a good section to learn about Protestantism, in no case is it approproate for you to tell us what we believe. For one thing, you have made it clear you do not undersatand our faith, secondly, you telling us what we believe is not any more conducive to good communication as are the bolded typefaces to you.Sure, since this is the non-Catholic religion section on Catholic Answers.
There you go again with one of your “shoulds”. By what authority do you come here to instruct us in what we should do?
This reflects the errant notion of total depravity according to Calvin. Also off topic in this thread. Apologetics would be an appropriate venue.
Yes. Truth should always be distinguished from error. This is the duty of the Church.
No, 2nd. You are not the authority of God. All valid authority comes from God, and is passed on by those whom God has appointed. It is not separated from the authority that He has ordained, as you are. Authorized persons are also sent forth. You sent yourself.
His word, yes, but it is filtered through your own perceptions. Your perceptions have been colored by your experineces and education (or lack of it).
I am glad you chose this scripture, because it is a good example of how one’s perceptions (filters) change the way they understand what they read.
Yes, so let’s try to stay on topic, ok?
I think I have done this. It has to do with the glasses. You wear Calvinistic glasses, we wear Apostolic.
No, but your permission to post here does rise and fall with following the forum rules. You are required to cite your sources here.
By which I think you mean that it conforms to what your view of the bible is.
This line is a good example of you putting forth your opinion as authoritative. You say you know in part, yet you make comments like this that indicate when Catholics see things differently, they are “confused”. Do you see the condescending attitude we are talking about?
your right james, im a soldier getting ready to deploy to iraq next year. anything can happen. before, during or after. so yes choosing wisely is very wise council indeed. thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.