Catholics neeed to read their Bibles!

[ncgolf]

If you take the 1 billion Catholics in the Catholic Faith and took a survey in what they personally believe, you would have great diversity and disunity

This is a false statement. Disagreeing, not agreeing or not understanding does not mean disunity. There can be no disunity because the standard does not change. Diversity yes … look at Franciscans, Bendectines, Thomists, Ligourians … diverse in how they approach spirituality …yes … that should be celebrated for the Church puts no one in a box. The unity is from what the Magesterium teaches … not what people believe. The unity comes from having a standard … the diversity from how that standard can be approached. That is why Protestantism has disunity.

Even within the Catholic Priesthood and really knew what each Catholic Priest and Bishop believed personally, you would have great diversity and disunity on many many subjects.

Again false … you try to muddle disunity and diversity into the same mold. The Church is against disunity and for diversity.

What percentage of Catholic laity and priest believe that the elements change to the actual literal flesh and blood of Jesus Christ?

Who cares what the vote is … you ever read about voting in Scriptures? Does the truth subject itself to opinion?

 

[bookgirl32]

To continue this thought: may I be so bold as to point out that Wittenberg, Geneva and Canterbury were never invaded by Muslims?

A new church just started up in my hometown a few months ago. It’s never been invaded by Muslims either .

 

[bookgirl32]

Has anyone talked about how the term Trinity and the understanding of the Trinity are part of Sacred Tradition and not found in the Bible?

It is supported by the Bible but nothing to the clarity that all true Christians understand the Trinity to be: One God in three Divine Persons – all perfect, all complete, all God, but indivisible from each other as One God.

This is the basis of our faith, our livelihood, and our salvation. Does the Bible teach this or only mentions the Divine Names?

It’s not explicit in the Bible. It is implicit, but only to interpretations that are open to it b/c of the teaching of Sacred Tradition.

 

[rinnie]

Has anyone talked about how the term Trinity and the understanding of the Trinity are part of Sacred Tradition and not found in the Bible?

It is supported by the Bible but nothing to the clarity that all true Christians understand the Trinity to be: One God in three Divine Persons – all perfect, all complete, all God, but indivisible from each other as One God.

This is the basis of our faith, our livelihood, and our salvation. Does the Bible teach this or only mentions the Divine Names?

How about try this one for size One of my very very favorites.

acts 20:35 It is more blessed to give than receive. OHHHHHHHHHHHH sounds like what we Catholics call Tradition. Paul tells you himself it was handed down orally from Jesus. Yep by golly thats what we Catholic’s call Tradition all right!

 

[rinnie]

It’s not explicit in the Bible. It is implicit, but only to interpretations that are open to it b/c of the teaching of Sacred Tradition.

Bingo!

 

[AwGusTeen]

a new church just started up in my hometown a few months ago. It’s never been invaded by muslims either .

hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

 

[Shannon9791]

Do you really think the 1st century Christians needed a Church council to tell them that a particular epistle was God-breathed and authorative in their lives? It is by the grace of God through the power of the Spirit, that Christians know that the Bible is the Word of God.

I feel like this is fairly significant to the discussion and would like 2nd to expand upon it. Do you believe there were more than the 27 books of the NT around at this time? Doesn’t it stand to reason that sooner or later a group of people would have to get together to try to figure out which of these documents should be kept and taught out of and which ones should be tossed? You say it is by the grace of God that Christians know that the Bible is the Word of God, but believing the way you do, wouldn’t that information also have to be in the Bible?

I have read this entire thread and have seen you bounce around from one topic to another and all over the planet, and I want to say that I have never seen as much intellecutual dishonesty as I have from you. You refuse to answer posts, you hack up quotes like Michael Myers on a Halloween night, you contradict yourself over and over again, and you absolutely refuse to listen. I’m not saying this to be mean, I only want you to better yourself as a person and take some constructive criticism. Instead of trying to be right, why not consider that what those who have tried before me is Truth? Has that even crossed your mind, or are you so concerned with making us see that your truth is what is right that you are blind to anything else? My prayers are with you,

Shannon

 

[crazzeto]

Do you really think the 1st century Christians needed a Church council to tell them that a particular epistle was God-breathed and authorative in their lives? It is by the grace of God through the power of the Spirit, that Christians know that the Bible is the Word of God.

Most simply and directly yes… Not only did they need the counsol for this purpose, but most practically they needed the cousole to confirm that the Epissle they had was authentic!! In scripture Paul references several forgeries floating around, offering warnings concerning them. How were local Churches/Dioceses supposed to know that the letter in their hand was authentic? Given the fact that their letter was probably a copy of a copy (were there copy errors??), and brought to them from unverifiable sources.

 

[Shannon9791]

Most simply and directly yes… Not only did they need the counsol for this purpose, but most practically they needed the cousole to confirm that the Epissle they had was authentic!! In scripture Paul references several forgeries floating around, offering warnings concerning them. How were local Churches/Dioceses supposed to know that the letter in their hand was authentic? Given the fact that their letter was probably a copy of a copy (were there copy errors??), and brought to them from unverifiable sources.

Well, I know that, because I am Catholic, but moreso because it just makes sense. I would like to know what Adam says about this.

 

[guanophore]

Nobody has 20/20 vision. We all wear glasses with a dark tint…

That is just it, Adam, the Sacred tradition is from God, not man. They enable us to see from God’s point of view.

So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Don’t you find it curious, if “faith alone” is true, why “faith” always abides with hope and love, and is not really alone? Or, if faith is the most important, why Paul says that love is greater?

What’s up with you with the Apologetics section? Have your buddies over there join us over here. IMO… those with an Apologetic mindset cause more division than unity in the body of Christ.

I understand your fears. However, the questions you are posing are appropriate apologetics questions. You are asking for a defense of Catholic beliefs. This part of the forum is to compare and contrast beliefs. A lot of the folks you really need to hear from on the issues you bring do not visit this section. Division exists. Trying to avoid it will not make it go away. Love conquers all! Let not fear reign.

There are Catholics who are just as liberal as the liberal Protestants. I guess the Catholic Church can just ex-communicate them, so they are no longer Catholic at the point. Protestantism doesn’t work the same way. All churches are a mix of sheep and goats.

Actually, they excommunicate themselves when they reject the Teaching.

I believe the OP link author about Catholics need to read their Bible, and the Catholic college professor link, and the leader of ECT from the Catholic side were all once Protestants who are Catholic. Heck, Scott Hahn, and other Catholic Answers apologists are ex-Protestants.

Is that why you are avoiding Apologetics? Are you concerned you may fall from your faith?

Please give me your understanding of the body of Christ. Do you see me to be part of the body of Christ too?

What has this got to do with the topic? Honestly, I have never seen anyone do such a great job derailing their own thread.

The reason you are called “separated” brother is due to the extent which you reject the Teachings of Jesus (20/20 alive and well in the church).

 

[guanophore]

Please invite them over here so we can grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ together as brothers and sisters in Christ.

2nd, you are making an erroneous assumption that this does not happen in Apologetics. The entire website of CAF is dedicated to this goal.

Some people stuck on apologetics don't like unity, maybe because of the remaining flesh in all of us.  We all like to think that our brand of Christianity is better than the next guy.

This is a grossly prejudicial statement (as well as erroneous) made without any personal knowledge on your part, since you refuse to go there.

Of course you are right about one thing, Catholicism is not a '“brand of Chrsitianity”. It is the One Faith built upon the Apostles and Prophets that existed prior to men making “brands”. Since it comes from Jesus Himself, and is not a faith extrapolated from the Holy Scripture by men who have departed from the Apostolic faith, of course it is “better than the next guy”!

I’d rather have conversations which grows our affection and love for our Triune God, regardless of being Catholic or Protestant!

You seem to be saying that you cannot maintain your affection and love for God if some of your fundamental assumptions are challenged. This says a lot about how firm your faith is (or is not, as the case may be). You seem quite comfortable hiding over here in NC religions while slinging down the gauntlet, demanding that Catholics “Defend the Catholic faith”, yet, you are not willing to engage with serious apologists on the issues you bring.

 

[spoiltvictorian]

I have to side with 2nd Adam about this matter of posting to Apologetics. Non-Catholic Religions seems to be its own little community here, and spreading discussions across multiple boards doesn’t sound like a good idea for continuity’s sake.

 

[guanophore]

I have to side with 2nd Adam about this matter of posting to Apologetics. Non-Catholic Religions seems to be its own little community here, and spreading discussions across multiple boards doesn’t sound like a good idea for continuity’s sake.

Oh, he spreads plenty! He has asked the same question in several different threads! Most of his questions are very appropriate questions, they are just off topic in the threads where he posts them (he has done it a dozen times in this one!) and are therefore a violation of forum rules.

 

[tweetymom]

Oh, he spreads plenty! He has asked the same question in several different threads! Most of his questions are very appropriate questions, they are just off topic in the threads where he posts them (he has done it a dozen times in this one!) and are therefore a violation of forum rules.

And some of the answers he gets are off topic and sometimes rude. Just mu humb:thumbsup:le oponion

 

[2nd_Adam]

Gospel means good news and was revealed in written and oral from.

So how many doctrines are there in the Scriptures, surley we need to know so we know what is and isn’t doctrine, yet no one has a list. Bizarre! Believe and be baptised said Christ to be saved, yet some people don’t believe baptism saves. So it this a doctrine? Love your neighbour - is this a doctrine? Eat my flesh - is this a doctrine? On this rock I will build my Church - is this a doctrine?

For **I delivered **to you as of first importance **what I also received: **that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, [Old Testament] that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep…Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed. - 1 Cor 15

Purgatory is not an essential truth? for example.

2 Mac. 12:46 - Prayers for the dead / Purgatory
46Therefore, it is a holy and beneficial thought to pray on behalf of those who have passed away, so that they may be released from sins.

2 Mac. 15:14 - Intercession of the saints
14 In truth, Onias responded by saying: “This one loves his brothers and the people of Israel. This is he who prays greatly for the people and for all the holy city: Jeremiah, the prophet of God.”

2 Mac. 15:15 - Apparitions of the saints
15 Then Jeremiah extended his right hand, and he gave to Judas a sword of gold, saying:

Sirach (Eccleiasticus) 15:14 - Free will
14 God established man from the beginning, and he left him in the hand of his own counsel.

Tobit 12:9 - Effectiveness of good works
9 For almsgiving delivers from death, and it will purge away every sin. Those who perform deeds of charity and of righteousness will have fullness of life; but those who commit sin are the enemies of their own lives.

Does the Spirit tell individuals what the canon is? So we know what to read.
If so why different canons in Catholicism and Protestantism?

As you well know, within Christendom, we have various views on communion (Lord’s Supper, Eucharist). If Christians do not have the same view as the Catholic Church, does that mean we are condemned and lost? Scripture reveals that what is not done in faith is sin. If I cannot receive the Catholic view of the Eucharist in faith, then it would be a sin to receive communion differently than my conscience beforre God. I think you’re other doctrines are important, but are not essential doctrines to be considered to be a Christian.

 

[2nd_Adam]

I feel like this is fairly significant to the discussion and would like 2nd to expand upon it. Do you believe there were more than the 27 books of the NT around at this time? Doesn’t it stand to reason that sooner or later a group of people would have to get together to try to figure out which of these documents should be kept and taught out of and which ones should be tossed? You say it is by the grace of God that Christians know that the Bible is the Word of God, but believing the way you do, wouldn’t that information also have to be in the Bible?

I have read this entire thread and have seen you bounce around from one topic to another and all over the planet, and I want to say that I have never seen as much intellecutual dishonesty as I have from you. You refuse to answer posts, you hack up quotes like Michael Myers on a Halloween night, you contradict yourself over and over again, and you absolutely refuse to listen. I’m not saying this to be mean, I only want you to better yourself as a person and take some constructive criticism. Instead of trying to be right, why not consider that what those who have tried before me is Truth? Has that even crossed your mind, or are you so concerned with making us see that your truth is what is right that you are blind to anything else? My prayers are with you,

Shannon

Of course you are welcome to your personal views and opinions. I think a dear brother in Christ put things in perspective… it all depends on what pair of glasses that you put on. If you wore your Catholic glasses on a Protestant Forum site, those Christians who be saying something very similar in what you posted about me, but those comments would be about you. For a Christian challege, I encourage you to partiicipate on a Protestant Forum site. We all know in part as Christians. Instead of worrying about what glasses that we wear as Christians, we should listen to the Apostle Paul and put on the New Self for our lives are hidden in Christ and not what pair of glasses that you wear.

Colossians 3

Put On the New Self

3:1 If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth. 3 For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is your [1] life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: [2] sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming. [3] 7 In these you too once walked, when you were living in them. 8 But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self [4] with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator. 11 Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, [5] free; but Christ is all, and in all.

12 Put on then, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, 13 bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. 14 And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony. 15 And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body. And be thankful. 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God. 17 And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Well, I know that, because I am Catholic, but moreso because it just makes sense. I would like to know what Adam says about this.

It is only by God the Holy Spirit that we receive special revelation from above in an effectual way.

1 Thessalonians 2:13

And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.

Luke 24:45

Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,

 

[2nd_Adam]

And some of the answers he gets are off topic and sometimes rude. Just mu humb:thumbsup:le oponion

Matthew 5:9

“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons (sons and daugters) of God.

Tweetymon is loved by all Christians, regardless of being Catholic or Protestant!

 

[tweetymom]

Matthew 5:9

“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons (sons and daugters) of God.

Tweetymon is loved by all Christians, regardless of being Catholic or Protestant!

Thank you adam

 

[Stephen168]

I have read this entire thread and have seen you bounce around from one topic to another and all over the planet, and I want to say that I have never seen as much intellecutual dishonesty as I have from you. You refuse to answer posts, you hack up quotes like Michael Myers on a Halloween night, you contradict yourself over and over again, and you absolutely refuse to listen.

I have to agree which is why I find it impossible to take him seriously. I think he must be aware of the lie he is trying to spread or his knowledge of Christian history is at an amazingly low level.