Catholics neeed to read their Bibles!

[2nd_Adam]

WRONG.
God doesn’t CAUSE all things because he cannot be the author of evil. God gives us free will to choose good and evil. If you believe that he IS the author of evil - you worship a different God than most Christians.

As for all Christians not being Catholic - that is a folly of MAN - not God.
It was prideful, rebellious men who sought to - and succeeded - in smashing Jesus’ prayer for the unity of his Body in John 17 to bits.

This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. - 1 John 1:5

God is never the author of evil. It is impossible for God to lie, or it is impossible for God to sin. The origin of evil is a mystery. God’s sovereignity and the origin of evil is one of those Christian paradoxes that cannot be resolved in our minds on this side of glory.

 

[tweetymom]

Thanks so much for posting that, if Tweetymom was getting hurt, then I appologize for that. It certainly isn’t the intention. As you say here, we’re just trying to offer correction.

Well thank you for feeling that I need correction. But I feel that I am walking with Jesus in a very real and right way. I do not feel angry just puzzled as to how people can percieve what is in ones heart just because you don’t agree with everything. I will get correction if and when the time comes from God Himself, but thank you so much for you concern. God gives us all a path to walk and I know that I am on the right path, hope the rest of you are too. God Bless you all and may God always direct you in all that you do as He has me. In Christ love and prayers Jeanette aka Tweetymom

 

[crazzeto]

Well thank you for feeling that I need correction. But I feel that I am walking with Jesus in a very real and right way. I do not feel angry just puzzled as to how people can percieve what is in ones heart just because you don’t agree with everything. I will get correction if and when the time comes from God Himself, but thank you so much for you concern. God gives us all a path to walk and I know that I am on the right path, hope the rest of you are too. God Bless you all and may God always direct you in all that you do as He has me. In Christ love and prayers Jeanette aka Tweetymom

And in what context do you accomplish this? Just what is it you beleive we should be doing to have the fullest, most personal relationship with Christ?

 

[Shannon9791]

I agree with your view from my perspective, that the Word of God is not complete with the 39 OT books. The sufficient complete Word of God has 66 books!

This might qualify as the craziest thing you’ve said here. You expect Jesus and his apostles to quote from the New Testament? It sure sounds like it. I bet they all used the King James Version right?

 

[elvisman]

This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. - 1 John 1:5

God is never the author of evil. It is impossible for God to lie, or it is impossible for God to sin. The origin of evil is a mystery. God’s sovereignity and the origin of evil is one of those Christian paradoxes that cannot be resolved in our minds on this side of glory.

Then you’ve contradicted yourself because you said God wills everything.
If everything is His will - that includes evil.

Prov. 21:3 explicitly says:
**“To do righteousness and justice is desired by the Lord rather than sacrifice.”
However, people still sin despite God’s will that they don’t.
God wants ALL people to repent (Acts 17:30), but not everybody does.

 

[Shannon9791]

God is never the author of evil. It is impossible for God to lie, or it is impossible for God to sin. The origin of evil is a mystery. God’s sovereignity and the origin of evil is one of those Christian paradoxes that cannot be resolved in our minds on this side of glory.

The origin of evil is not a mystery at all. Evil comes from man’s choosing not to follow God’s instructions. The whole story’s in your bible. Evil exists because of free will. I have the freedom to choose to follow God or not. I don’t too much see the paradox there, but maybe someone else can help me with that.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Then you’ve contradicted yourself because you said God wills everything.
If everything is His will - that includes evil.

Prov. 21:3 explicitly says:
***“To do righteousness and justice is desired by the Lord rather than sacrifice.”
***However, people still sin despite God’s will that they don’t.
God wants ALL people to repent (Acts 17:30), but not everybody does.

You don’t have to resolve everything here on earth. We know it is impossible for God to contradict Himself. These tensions are only apparent contradictions, or paradoxes. How do your explain the Trinity?

1 + 1 + 1 = 1

or

1 x 1 x 1 = 1

 

[Love_is_Patient]

Well thank you for feeling that I need correction. But I feel that I am walking with Jesus in a very real and right way. I do not feel angry just puzzled as to how people can percieve what is in ones heart just because you don’t agree with everything. I will get correction if and when the time comes from God Himself, but thank you so much for you concern. God gives us all a path to walk and I know that I am on the right path, hope the rest of you are too. God Bless you all and may God always direct you in all that you do as He has me. In Christ love and prayers Jeanette aka Tweetymom

But God often corrects us through other people, Tweetymom.

Love is Patient

 

[Love_is_Patient]

You guys are too kind and really have treated me very Christ-like on this Catholic Christian Forum site. Since I have been quite the staunch Calvinists over the years, I think the Lord has me here to smooth out my many rough edges in my Christian character. Doctrine is one thing, but loving one another is another thing. 1 Cor 13 - (like your signature) is quite the true mark of belonging to Christ. I think if we follow your lead of 1 Cor 13… when we fellowship with other Christians from different Christian communities, than God will be pleased with all of us.

Well, we’ll keep praying for you to swim the Tiber because we love ya.

Love is Patient

 

[2nd_Adam]

The origin of evil is not a mystery at all. Evil comes from man’s choosing not to follow God’s instructions. The whole story’s in your bible. Evil exists because of free will. I have the freedom to choose to follow God or not. I don’t too much see the paradox there, but maybe someone else can help me with that.

I think you need to go back further beyond Adam and Eve. Who was in the garden that tempted Eve? Who created Lucifier? And why did some Angels fall and others did not? Do you think God knew Lucifer would fall prior to creating Lucifier?

Matthew 24:31
And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:27
And then he will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

1 Timothy 5:21
In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the **elect angels **I charge you to keep these rules without prejudging, doing nothing from partiality.

 

[Cr8ton]

But God often corrects us through other people, Tweetymom.

Love is Patient

this may be so, but what about discernment and the Holy Spirit’s part in all of this?

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

We should rely more on what scripture says and Gods confirmation within our hearts as opposed to the words of men.

 

[AwGusTeen]

"crazzeto:

So do I, but respecting other religions doesn’t mean compramising the truth. How can you believe in God, if you don’t accept the Truth of God? How can you be sure of anything, you 're willing to throw out that which you know to be true, in the name of “respecting” other religions. Respect does not, and should not ever equate to throwing out the Truth of God.

The fact is, there aren’t many different perspectives all of them true as today’s culture wants you to believe. This is a horrific fallocy, it’s also logically unsupportable. There is in fact, a single objective truth. There are those who do not accept the truth, or only partially accept the truth. That doesn’t make them “every bit as right as anyone else”, that makes them partially right, partially wrong.

Thank you too for the judgement call and God Bless

tweetymom: You rarely provide a cogent response when someone challenges you (see the above). Since you claim to teach RCIA, then you should be familiar with the first in the Spiritual Works of Mercy: to admonish those in error. That’s all anyone here is trying to do for you. Yet, all you seem capable of is to respond with short and smarmy drive-bys couched in the veil (and a thin one I might add) of Chritian Love.

We discuss and debate things on this forum - feelings should be left at the door. For your own good if you can’t handle this environment, please consider another.

 

[elvisman]

You don’t have to resolve everything here on earth. We know it is impossible for God to contradict Himself. These tensions are only apparent contradictions, or paradoxes. How do your explain the Trinity?

1 + 1 + 1 = 1

or

1 x 1 x 1 = 1

Not trying to resolve everything - just heresy.

Not really sure what the rest of your post has to do with your contradicting yourself, but most of your responses are usually wild goose chases, anyway . . .

 

[SteveGC]

Ok, good and faithful Catholics…

Let us all regroup, relax and take some deep breaths here. The trend of this thread is not only moving off-topic, but also moving into uncharitable waters…

and I know…I know…even slight compromise on the Truth we believe has been revealed to The Church can arise in us emotions so strong that it is difficult to charitably have discourse with those who do not believe it…but let us remember that no amount of sarcasm or matter-of-fact bluntness in our posting will draw anyone closer to that reality.

At the risk of engaging this off-topic tangent…let me just respond to Cr8ton’s earlier post, in which (he/she) reflected on how the Church (and/or the Catholics within Her) views non-Catholics. He/she said this: “It seems this would come down to an issue of whether or not the Catholic Church believes we as non-Catholics are becoming A) numb to the Spirits call in our lives or B) just plain out disobedient and fallen from grace.”

Cr8ton, I would actually offer you an option (C) that is more accurate of the reality of our view of non-Catholics…namely, that non-Catholic Christians are (like many of us who are now Catholic were at one point) children of the Reformation, and have been brought up in a version of the Christian faith which has been radically altered from its origins. As such a child in the faith, non-Catholics are doing the best they can with what they are taught, despite the fact that what they are taught contains doctrinal errors and partial-truths. Mind you, that altered version is still very Christo-centric, and some Catholics, in fact, can learn many things from the devotion to Christ that non-Catholics possess, especially in the areas of evangelism and devotion to personal time in Scripture. But non-Catholics are nevertheless removed from the Apostolic Tradition which Christ intended to be central to His teachings and literally to Himself until His return.

This does not mean that God in all His persons is not present in these reformed Christian communities. God is not confined to His Church (which we believe is the historic Catholic Church). The Church Herself teaches that the Spirit, coming to the world through the conduit of The Church, does move within these other communities where Christ and Him crucified is professed, and He certainly indwells the souls of all who are baptized believers in Christ, which is the fundamental definition of Christian. And salvation certainly is available to all Christians, and it is not guaranteed for Catholics. It’s just that being Catholic makes accessible to a Christian not only the fullest amount of authentic teachings of Christ, but also the fullest amount of available Grace that God has made available through His Church. There’s more to it, but that’s the essential view.

I agree with you that many non-Catholics, while being genuninely open to truth, are not presently called to the Church. I personally feel the non-Catholic community is being used by God in mysterious ways to eventually reunify His flock in His good time…but I also believe that any eventual reunification will be realized within the Catholic Church. I also believe in the words of John Paul II (I think it was him) who felt and prayed that, while the first 1000 years of Christianity was the millenium of Christian unity, and the 2nd was the millenium of Christianity dis-unity, that the 3rd millenium will be the millenium of Christain RE-unity. I think we are already seeing sign-posts of that reality.

 

[crazzeto]

tweetymom: You rarely provide a cogent response when someone challenges you (see the above). Since you claim to teach RCIA, then you should be familiar with the first in the Spiritual Works of Mercy: to admonish those in error. That’s all anyone here is trying to do for you. Yet, all you seem capable of is to respond with short and smarmy drive-bys couched in the veil (and a thin one I might add) of Chritian Love.

We discuss and debate things on this forum - feelings should be left at the door. For your own good if you can’t handle this environment, please consider another.

You remind me of a story I was told as a child.

A man found him self on a sinking ship, while the ship was going down he was approched by one of the deck hands and told:

“The ship is sinking, we have to get off. Come follow me to the life boat”

The man responded

“No, I don’t need to. God will save me.”

He was approched by one of his fellow passangers who again said to him:

“The ship is sinking, we have to get off. Come follow me to the life boat”

Again, the man responded:

“No, I don’t need to. God will save me.”

Finally he was approched by the ships Captain, who again said:

“The ship is sinking, we have to get off. Come follow me to the life boat”

A final time the man said:

“No, I don’t need to. God will save me.”

Well the ship finally sunk after this, and the man drowned. When he finally made it to heaven, the first thing he asked God was:

“Why didn’t you save me?”.

Gods answer was:

“Three times I sent you someone to save you, and three times you didn’t listen”.

 

[tweetymom]

this may be so, but what about discernment and the Holy Spirit’s part in all of this?

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

We should rely more on what scripture says and Gods confirmation within our hearts as opposed to the words of men.

Not too much discerment or the Holy Spirits work here, alot of judgement however if one isn;t in complete agreement with those who think they are the only right ones on earth! God Bless you all

 

[2nd_Adam]

Well, we’ll keep praying for you to swim the Tiber because we love ya.

Love is Patient

I’ve seen that on people’s signatures. What does it mean to “swim the Tiber”?

 

[Shannon9791]

I think you need to go back further beyond Adam and Eve. Who was in the garden that tempted Eve? Who created Lucifier? And why did some Angels fall and others did not? Do you think God knew Lucifer would fall prior to creating Lucifier?

Matthew 24:31
And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:27
And then he will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

1 Timothy 5:21
In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the **elect angels **I charge you to keep these rules without prejudging, doing nothing from partiality.

Ok, then, let’s go one step back (although this is so off topic it’s not even funny) Lucifer made a choice because he had free will. God created the Angels, but gave them the same free will we have, and they chose to rebel. Are you trying to say that God created evil?

 

[2nd_Adam]

Not trying to resolve everything - just heresy.

Not really sure what the rest of your post has to do with your contradicting yourself, but most of your responses are usually wild goose chases, anyway . . .

Why things appear contradictory to you is simply the glasses your wear. You have hard core Catholic glasses on.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Ok, good and faithful Catholics…

Let us all regroup, relax and take some deep breaths here. The trend of this thread is not only moving off-topic, but also moving into uncharitable waters…

For clarification sake, do you consider Orthodox with the big Schism to be non-Catholic Christians too. I don’t think they are a product of Reformation Day.