Catholics only: Do you hate homosexual sex acts (as we are obliged to)?

[blessedtoo]

Jesus considers divorce and remarriage to be equivalent to adultery, yet U.S. Catholics are just as likely to divorce and just as likely to cohabitate as the general population (Barna).

What is your point? These Catholics should also be admnoshed and should they claim, in a public way, that the Church is archaic and discriminatory in Her teachings and attempt to redefine doctrine, they too should be loudly opposed.

The estimates on the number of homosexuals in the U.S. vary, but as I recall, they are usually between 1 to 10%. I don’t know for certain, but I’ll bet there are a lot more Christians divorcing, remarrying, and cohabitating than there are people engaged in homosexual acts in the U.S.

Again, what is the point? Does one sin cancel out or neutralize another? Why does this approach apply only to this particular behavior? Would you also assert that because people lie and cheat, we should no longer speak out against those who commit armed robbery?

So, why should we focus so much attention on homosexuality? Perhaps it’s really just diversion away from our own sins.

Our culture is obsessed with homosexuality. I’ve watched every presidential debate and without fail, this topic is brought up as frequently as the war in Iraq. The 2006 election saw eight states with referendums to redefine marriage. MTV is currently airing a program touting the glory of “bi-sexual” romance. Other Christian denominations are splitting over this issue. Unless you’ve been living in a cave, it would be impossible to ignore the fact that this topic is being foisted upon every one of us. Shifting the focus onto those who are forced to defend traditional morals is diversionary.

I don’t know about you, but I’m a lot more concerned about my own sins than I am the sins of my neighbor.

What if helping your “neighbor” get to heaven is part of the Christian obligation?

 

[fix]

First, at no point have I denied that homosexual acts are a sin.

Second, it has been my experience that many people who claim to be promoting God’s agenda are really only promoting their own.

I’ll repeat a question I posed on another thread: how is it that homosexuality should take precedence over war, poverty, disease, and starvation? Don’t we have better things to do with out time and effort?

In the grand scheme of things, how many people are hurt when two people engage in a homosexual act?

How many people are hurt when two people – married people, with children – engage in adultery?

How many children have died in Iraq since the invasion?

How many children die every year from diseases associated with malnutrition?

(These are rhetorical questions – I could easily find the answers)

To me, it’s not a matter of whether or not homosexuality is a sin (I’ve never said it isn’t), it’s a matter of priorities.

Peace!

How much is one soul worth?

 

[estesbob]

First, at no point have I denied that homosexual acts are a sin.

I’ll repeat a question I posed on another thread: how is it that homosexuality should take precedence over war, poverty, disease, and starvation? Don’t we have better things to do with out time and effort?

I was not aware that ing poor, hungry, or having a disease, were sins.

In the grand scheme of things, how many people are hurt when two people engage in a homosexual act?

Why would that matter?

How many people are hurt when two people – married people, with children – engage in adultery?

And the point is?

How many children have died in Iraq since the invasion

How many children die every year from diseases associated with malnutrition?

So its permissible to sin if children are hungry or dying in war?

(These are rhetorical questions – I could easily find the answers)

None of the answers which would have anything whatsoever to do with this thread

To me, it’s not a matter of whether or not homosexuality is a sin (I’ve never said it isn’t), it’s a matter of priorities.

Well that’s all well and good but what does that have to do with this thread? Or are you suggesting that no sins can be discussed in unless we first address the issues are more important to you?

 

[davidv]

First, at no point have I denied that homosexual acts are a sin.

Second, it has been my experience that many people who claim to be promoting God’s agenda are really only promoting their own.

I’ll repeat a question I posed on another thread: how is it that homosexuality should take precedence over war, poverty, disease, and starvation? Don’t we have better things to do with out time and effort?

In the grand scheme of things, how many people are hurt when two people engage in a homosexual act?

How many people are hurt when two people – married people, with children – engage in adultery?

How many children have died in Iraq since the invasion?

How many children die every year from diseases associated with malnutrition?

(These are rhetorical questions – I could easily find the answers)

To me, it’s not a matter of whether or not homosexuality is a sin (I’ve never said it isn’t), it’s a matter of priorities.

Peace!

1. The number of people involved or affected doesn’t necessarily determine the gravity of the situation.
2. Even if it did in this case, this supposed minor problem becomes a stepping stone to greater offenses. Jesus said that if we cannot be trusted in small matters, we cannot be trusted in greater matters.
   Conclusion: Not dealing with the small things leads to the necessity of having many more big things to deal with. (remember: “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure”)

 

[neuro_nurse]

So, if there is a general consensus that homosexual acts are grave sins about which we should be deeply concerned, then what is the point of this thread? Where is it going? What are you proposing that we do about it?

I know what I can do about poverty & disease – I have made that my life’s vocation - but as far as my gay sisters and brothers, all I know to do is pray for them and show them my charity and love.

Now what?

I just don’t see expounding on the sin of homosexual acts as accomplishing anything. In other words, explain to me how this is anything other than a waste of time? What are you hoping to accomplish with this thread?

 

[Wolseley]

I would prefer same-gender couples to be formally married before they show acts of love towards themselves in long-term relationships. That would help take the stigma of “scandal” away from this.

Where in the Synoptic Gospels is this position taken?

 

[fix]

So, if there is a general consensus that homosexual acts are grave sins about which we should be deeply concerned, then what is the point of this thread? Where is it going? What are you proposing that we do about it?

I know what I can do about poverty & disease – I have made that my life’s vocation - but as far as my gay sisters and brothers, all I know to do is pray for them and show them my charity and love.

Now what?

I just don’t see expounding on the sin of homosexual acts as accomplishing anything. In other words, explain to me how this is anything other than a waste of time? What are you hoping to accomplish with this thread?

“It is legitimate and necessary to ask oneself if this is not perhaps part of a new ideology of evil, perhaps more insidious and hidden, which attempts to pit human rights against the family and against man”

                         Pope John Paul II

Memory and Identity

 

[estesbob]

So, if there is a general consensus that homosexual acts are grave sins about which we should be deeply concerned, then what is the point of this thread? Where is it going? What are you proposing that we do about it?

I know what I can do about poverty & disease – I have made that my life’s vocation - but as far as my gay sisters and brothers, all I know to do is pray for them and show them my charity and love.

Now what?

I just don’t see expounding on the sin of homosexual acts as accomplishing anything. In other words, explain to me how this is anything other than a waste of time? What are you hoping to accomplish with this thread?

There are hundreds and hundreds of threads in CAF, If you do not want to engage in this type of discussion why are you posting here?

 

[neuro_nurse]

There are hundreds and hundreds of threads in CAF, If you do not want to engage in this type of discussion why are you posting here?

I questioned the motives behind this thread - that is a non-answer.

What is the point of this thread? If you are doing nothing but preaching to the choir, what purpose does this discussion serve?

 

[fix]

I questioned the motives behind this thread - that is a non-answer.

What is the point of this thread? If you are doing nothing but preaching to the choir, what purpose does this discussion serve?

All types of people read these threads. Why is it a problem when people discuss pressing moral issues? Must all discussion be confined to the malnuorished or poverty stricken?

 

[neuro_nurse]

All types of people read these threads. Why is it a problem when people discuss pressing moral issues? Must all discussion be confined to the malnuorished or poverty stricken?

That doesn’t answer my question - what are you hoping to achieve with this thread?

 

[estesbob]

That doesn’t answer my question - what are you hoping to achieve with this thread?

To reinforce the message that despite what our culure and what many In CAF teach Homosexual behavior is indeed a grevious sin. And if you take the time to read this thread you will see we are not preaching to the choir.

In reading your posts it appears you have far more contemp for those who affirm that such behavior is a sin than the sin itself. Perhaps you can start a thread “do you hate those who criticize homosexual behavior or just the act itself”

 

[fix]

That doesn’t answer my question - what are you hoping to achieve with this thread?

Well, I did not start it. The poster who did seems to be a very fine person who is a great defender of the faith.

Now, imo, these threads are “popular” for two main reasons. The first reason is many folks understand there is a concerted effort to redefine moral truths. They do not like it and they try to counter it. These discussions are one small way, not the only way or even the best way.

The second reason is that many support this redefinition. They want a change so that they may continue as they desire without the sense of guilt or interference from others.

Would you think it odd, or wrong, to discuss DWI? Or drug abuse among children? Or spouse abuse? Why is this one topic always seen as off limits?

 

[rpp]

So, if there is a general consensus that homosexual acts are grave sins about which we should be deeply concerned, then what is the point of this thread? Where is it going? What are you proposing that we do about it?

I know what I can do about poverty & disease – I have made that my life’s vocation - but as far as my gay sisters and brothers, all I know to do is pray for them and show them my charity and love.

Now what?

I just don’t see expounding on the sin of homosexual acts as accomplishing anything. In other words, explain to me how this is anything other than a waste of time? What are you hoping to accomplish with this thread?

Okay, I will give it a shot.

This needs to be discussed because the secular world is constantly telling us that this type of behavior is okay. More than that, out of a sense of misplaced charity, some inside the Church claim that homosexual activity is not so bad, or even good.

This forum is transitory in nature. People come and go with great frequency and often if no one posts on a thread for a day or two, the thread dies and is forgotten. Thus discussing the same topic from different perspectives is both reasonable and appropriate.

And finally, this is a very grave and serious matter. There is little or no pressure from in or outside the Church to justify murder (except abortion) or the exploitation of the poor and needy. There is, as I said before, much pressure to “normalize” unnatural homosexual acts. There is also pressure to normalize both adultery, fornication and all other sexual sins. At the very least, there is a strong movement inside the church to at least equate homosexual sins with other sexual sins. That is simply not the case.

The Catechism clearly states that certain sins are in a class by themselves as being especially grave.

1867 The catechetical tradition also recalls that there are “sins that cry to heaven”: the blood of Abel, the sin of the Sodomites, the cry of the people oppressed in Egypt, the cry of the foreigner, the widow, and the orphan, injustice to the wage earner.

The emphasis is mine.

As can be seen from the quote above, homosexual sins are for more grave than any of the other sexual sins. This message must be repeated because so many people do not seem to get it.

So you can see that this topic, like abortion, has the rare distinction of requiring frequent discussion. Though I will agree that is can become tedious at times because the same people keep insisting on views contrary to Catholic teachings.

 

[neuro_nurse]

Would you think it odd, or wrong, to discuss DWI? Or drug abuse among children? Or spouse abuse? Why is this one topic always seen as off limits?

Given my first-hand professional experience with all of the above, absolutely not.

It is not my suggestion that homosexuality or anything else be a verboten topic.

My trouble is with the political implications associated with the subject – I see it as a diversion away from other problems that our pollical system should be addressing – it’s a hot-button issue that attracts a lot of attention and easily overshadows other social problems, some of which I mentioned that are particularly concerning to me.

I am married to a very dear woman who happens to be the daughter of a Baptist pastor. I’m not criticizing my wife, her father, or their beliefs, but through my wife and her family I have been exposed to a large number of ultra-conservative Protestants – some of whom seem to have a strong undercurrent of anti-Catholicism. (I am NOT anti-conservative)

I bring this up because it seems to me that anti-Catholic sentiment paralyzes some people into inaction because they are afraid that they will be perceived as believing in salvation though works.

I love being a Catholic because of the social teachings of the Church. When the Protestants busy themselves with talking about faith, charity, and morality, Catholics are getting our hands dirty *doing something *about it!

So for me, matters of faith always come down to ‘what am I going to DO about it?’

What is there to do except what I suggested above – pray, and show our gay sisters and brothers our charity and love?

Where do we go from here?

 

[estesbob]

What is there to do except what I suggested above – pray, and show our gay sisters and brothers our charity and love?

Where do we go from here?

How about you post to topics that interest you and we will post the topics that interest us?

I’m always amused that we always here about our “gay” brothers and sisters yet when you go the other threads about sexul sin you never hear people talking about our “adultetrous” brothers and sisters or our “incestuous” brothers and sisters. Why is that?

Could it be that many Catholics who post in these forums are uncomfortable with the idea that homosexuality is a sin?

 

[neuro_nurse]

How about you post to topics that interest you and we will post the topics that interest us?

In other words, ‘Go away and leave us alone’?

Maybe I made YOU uncomfortable.

If you don’t want to engage me in dialog, you don’t have to, but I really don’t think it’s your place to tell me not to post here.

Peace!

 

[estesbob]

In other words, ‘Go away and leave us alone’?

Maybe I made YOU uncomfortable.

If you don’t want to engage me in dialog, you don’t have to, but I really don’t think it’s your place to tell me not to post here.

Peace!

What dialogue is their when you continually tell us that we shouldnt be talking about this.? Does criticism of homosexual behavior make you uncomfroatble? Do you beleive that homoexual behavior is a mortal sin?

 

[neuro_nurse]

What dialogue is their when you continually tell us that we shouldnt be talking about this.? Does criticism of homosexual behavior make you uncomfroatble? Do you beleive that homoexual behavior is a mortal sin?

Excuse me? Exactly where did I say that you shouldn’t be talking about this?

As for the rest of your questions, I answered them in previous posts on this thread.

 

[rpp]

Can we pleeeeease return to the topic of this thread?