Catholics only: Do you hate homosexual sex acts (as we are obliged to)?

[estesbob]

I’m sorry but I’m going to have to dismiss that with a quickness! It isn’t homosexuality that tells you you’re a sin.

No-its God, His word and his Church that tells you its a sin.

It isn’t homosexuality that tries to convince me that my desire for companionship is warped.

No one is telling you that a desire for companionship is warped. Feeling that companionship can only be gained by having sex , on other hand, is a problem

It isn’t homosexuality that dishonestly tells me God destroyed an entire city because of their orientation.

Actually its Scripture that tells us that. The fact you want to read it differently is irelevant.

It isn’t homosexuality that looks at people as myself as either to be pitied, feared, or mistreated.

The Church does not recommend any of these. It counsels love and respect BUT the greatest act of love one can show is to help people learn the truth-not to validate their sinful behavior.

It isn’t homosexuality that manipulated scripture and ripped it out of context.

Well it was at the very least homosexual apologists who manipulated Scripture in an attempt to present a grevious sin as an act of love.

It isn’t homosexuality that tears certain ones from even their families, their congregations and even society itself.

Correct-it isnt homosexualtiy-its homosexual behavior that causes all these problems.

It isn’t homosexuality that has a history of persecution and rejection.

And a history of perversion and sin.

Sweetie, it isn’t homosexuality that’s the problem. It never was! It’s people and their influenced, dishonesty, alligence to the Traditions of men, instead of the inspired, infalliable Word of God. And despite, popular opinion, it was God who knew the TRUTH of all of this all along!

Again the problem is homosexual behavior.

 

[truagape]

Maybe homosexuality is the problem. That’s all I’m saying. When all of society is lined up with the gay rights movement (like it is now, for the most part), and those people actively involved in homosexual sex are still suffering from the effects of their life style–high rate of alcoholism, STD’s, depression, and shortened life expectancy at least for males-- whose fault will it be then?

The above statement is exactly the reason why there is no denying that it’s not “homosexuality”, that inflicts the pain. You turn a blind eye to the “cause”, and pull out a magnifier on the “effect”. You ask “whose fault will it be then”. Then? Well, consider this: Whose fault was it then when “Christians”, told them the lie about Sodom and Gomorrah? Whose fault was it then when, their desire for their one true love, was considered a temtation? Whose fault was it then when society, influenced by false teachings, labeled these ones as outcasts? Who do you blame for the many who run into the arms of suicide, looking for an escape from themselves?
Their actions are not a result of their l"ife-style" (what ever that means). It’s a result of thier pain. And as I’ve said before, it’s not homosexuality that caused it. It’s people like you. And when you condsider the fact that there are institutions that actually breed people like you, the force-field of inhumane perspectives is exhausting. You fail to recognize that their actions and conditions are a response to the “holy abuse”, your church and it’s unscriptural teachings are royally guilty of. In fact, the effects of their “life-style”, as you incorrectly claim, are nothing less than the irefutable evidence that the Church, and it’s historic divergence from scripture is anything but innocent. And the fact that you even made the above staements is proof of it’s dishonest influence. If you knew better, you would have been ashamed to even utter such things!

The discrimination against “homosexuals”, is unparalled to anything else in history. For many, there exist the understanding they they don’t have, family, friends, Christian fellowship, or even God on their side. Paul warned aginst those who would stumble others away from the faith. And with the hoplessness, many religions have compressed agmonst those of a different orientation, such institutions are without a doubt, guilty as charged! And your statements above, prove it!

 

[truagape]

No-its God, His word and his Church that tells you its a sin.

No one is telling you that a desire for companionship is warped. Feeling that companionship can only be gained by having sex , on other hand, is a problem

Actually its Scripture that tells us that. The fact you want to read it differently is irelevant.

The Church does not recommend any of these. It counsels love and respect BUT the greatest act of love one can show is to help people learn the truth-not to validate their sinful behavior.

Well it was at the very least homosexual apologists who manipulated Scripture in an attempt to present a grevious sin as an act of love.

Correct-it isnt homosexualtiy-its homosexual behavior that causes all these problems.

And a history of perversion and sin.

Again the problem is homosexual behavior.

Wait, hold up estesbob. Back up a minute! You want to talk about what God’s Word says about “homosexuality”? Fine, let’s! Because before I address any other errors within your post, I must first address your lack of TRUTH concerning your dishonest perspective regarding “scripture and homosexuality”.

 

[estesbob]

The discrimination against “homosexuals”, is unparalled to anything else in history. For many, there exist the understanding they they don’t have, family, friends, Christian fellowship, or even God on their side. Paul warned aginst those who would stumble others away from the faith. And with the hoplessness, many religions have compressed agmonst those of a different orientation, such institutions are without a doubt, guilty as charged! And your statements above, prove it!

The problem is a demand that a grevious sin be approved of. If we were to approve of homosexual behavior we would indeed be causing others to stumble away from the faith.

 

[estesbob]

Wait, hold up estesbob. Back up a minute! You want to talk about what God’s Word says about “homosexuality”? Fine, let’s! Because before I address any other errors within your post, I must first address your lack of TRUTH concerning your dishonest perspective regarding “scripture and homosexuality”.

Are we going to go by the interpretation of Scripture that was was in effect for 2000 years or are we going go by the the new improved interpretation created by homosexual apologists in the last 40 to 50 years? And since we’re in the Catholic forum we it also would have to reinterpret 2000 years of tradition and teachings of the magisterium.

I’ll be the first to admit I’m not qualified to interpret scripture for you Neither, however, are you qualified to interpret it for me or anybody else.The truth was entrusted to the Catholic Church. Now you may want to reject the truth and you may want to come up with new clever ways to claims that scripture supports you but the truth will still be the truth…

 

[truagape]

The problem is a demand that a grevious sin be approved of. If we were to approve of homosexual behavior we would indeed be causing others to stumble away from the faith.

I invite you to test your own words! Pit them up against scripture and let’s see just how “true” that is. So I’m asking you, are you willing to use scripture to define what this “grevious” sin is?

 

[truagape]

Are we going to go by the interpretation of Scripture that was was in effect for 2000 years or are we going go by the the new improved interpretation created by homosexual apologists in the last 40 to 50 years? And since we’re in the Catholic forum we it also would have to reinterpret 2000 years of tradition and teachings of the magisterium.

I’ll be the first to admit I’m not qualified to interpret scripture for you Neither, however, are you qualified to interpret it for me or anybody else.The truth was entrusted to the Catholic Church. Now you may want to reject the truth and you may want to come up with new clever ways to claims that scripture supports you but the truth will still be the truth…

Let’s get to the point already! Now you made the decision to reply to my posts, so then, be willing to actually carry this conversation out. Did you honestly think that I wasn’t going to call you out against your own false remarks?

 

[truagape]

estesbob, now are you gonna back up your statements or not? And honestly, I could careless what bible you choose to use, they’re all copied from the same source.

 

[estesbob]

estesbob, now are you gonna back up your statements or not? And honestly, I could careless, what bible you choose to use they’re all copied from the same source.

I am waiting for you to back up your statements. You need to back them up with scripture, tradition and the teachings of the Magestium. Just saying you decided Scripture agrees with you is not enough. You have no authority whatsoever ot interpret Scripture for the rest of us.

 

[truagape]

Obviously you bought into a lot of the lies and propaganda of the gay political movement

And which lies were those?

 

[truagape]

I am waiting for you to back up your statements. .

Yea, I’m sure you are! My suggestion: in the future be willing to use scripture to support your views. Especially the ones that you claim are “true”.

You need to back them up with scripture, tradition and the teachings of the Magestium.

No, that’s your job. You’re the one whose Catholic!

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

Do not hate the sinner. We are, indeed, all laden with guilt.
If for the sake of God you are moved to oppose him, weep over him.

– St. Isaac of Nineveh

 

[estesbob]

Yea, I’m sure you are! My suggestion: in the future be willing to use scripture to support your views. Especially the ones that you claim are “true”.

We can only uses scripture if we can agree as to who has the authority to interpret it. Just saying your perosonal interpeation of Scripture proves your point is an excercise in futility.

No, that’s your job. You’re the one whose Catholic!

I dont have a “job” You came to a Catholic forum.

 

[truagape]

We can only uses scripture if we can agree as to who has the authority to interpret it. Just saying your perosonal interpeation of Scripture proves your point is an excercise in futility.

My position will not require an interpretation, only a realization of the scriptural facts. The same can not be said about yours

 

[estesbob]

My position will not require an interpretation, only a realization of the scriptural facts. The same can not be said about yours

Based on who’s scriptural facts? I ask again by what authority do you presume to interpret scripture for the rest of us? It appears that if you cant bait someone into a verse war you have no other isnisght to offer.

 

[truagape]

Based on who’s scriptural facts? I ask again by what authority do you presume to interpret scripture for the rest of us?

And I will tell you again: THE POSITION I WILL DEFEND DOES NOT REQUIRE AN INTERPRETATION.
And in regards to your very first question, you don’t honestly expect me to take you seriously do you? Because the answer to your “who”, is scripture itself.

 

[daeve]

Because you seem as if the issue being discussed is “celebacy while single.” That isn’t the topic at hand. In fact, I don’t think that any Christian who values chasity would disagree with that. The topic being presented is whether or not those with a same-sex orientation are obliged to remain single for life, and in turn celebate for life. Your original post contrasted nothing of the such. You presented the senario of a single “hetrosexual” and compared that to a single “homosexual”. Okay fine! But the huge difference is that the single “hetrosexual” isn’t obliged to remain celebate even when a mate is found, with the option to enter into a life long commitment. So in that since, the “hetrosexual” isn’t celebate for life, only the life of his singleness, whereas the single "homosexual"is, according to you.
You said that you were celebate and that it was hard. Well most Christians will attest to that regardless of orientation. But the question that I am asking you, which changes the nature of your whole argument, is really quite simple: Are you, have you, and do you expect to be single and therefore celebate for life, without even the hope of marriage?

I’m kind of butting in here. I’m divorced, celibate for over 20 years. I expect to be for the rest of my life, unless what’s his face gets hit by a truck. So I am single, and expect to remain that way throughout the rest of my life, without “even the hope of marriage”. Now what?

 

[truagape]

I’m kind of butting in here. I’m divorced, celibate for over 20 years. I expect to be for the rest of my life, unless what’s his face gets hit by a truck. So I am single, and expect to remain that way throughout the rest of my life, without “even the hope of marriage”. Now what?

You won’t get an arguement from me, cause I’m not disagreeing with you. What do you mean by “now what”?

 

[Mea_Culpa]

And I will tell you again: THE POSITION I WILL DEFEND DOES NOT REQUIRE AN INTERPRETATION.
And in regards to your very first question, you don’t honestly expect me to take you seriously do you? Because the answer to your “who”, is scripture itself.

truagape is right, Sacred Scripture denounces homosexuality in no uncertain terms, really no interpretation is needed when it says in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10:

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, or adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

That’s clear as a bell and no interpretation is needed. There are many other passages that also denounce homosexuality in plain, clear terms. The fact is, homosexuality is a gravely disordered condition, and homosexual sex is grave matter for sin (as taught by the Catholic Church). On this issue, I have to agree with truagape, that the Scripture is so clear that it really interprets itself.

 

[truagape]

truagape is right, Sacred Scripture denounces homosexuality in no uncertain terms, really no interpretation is needed when it says in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10:

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, or adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

That’s clear as a bell and no interpretation is needed. There are many other passages that also denounce homosexuality in plain, clear terms. The fact is, homosexuality is a gravely disordered condition, and homosexual sex is grave matter for sin (as taught by the Catholic Church). On this issue, I have to agree with truagape, that the Scripture is so clear that it really interprets itself.

I’m glad that you feel that way! Progress. Unfortunately for you though, and I know better than to think that you aren’t already aware of this, the use of the term “homosexuals”, presents many dishonest manipulations that easily rise to the surface upon closer examination. The first of which, isn’t going to do you any favors. You do realize that according to that faulty excuse of a translation, that such a term would imply that “homosexuals”, practicing or not, will not inherit God’s Kingdom. That would seem to go against the pathetic effort towards “clean-up”, many “Christians”, on this forum try to manage. Care to explain? (Or should I say, interpret?)