Catholics! Please get in here!

[Catholic_Bro]

He may have copy pasted his questions or parts thereof from an anti-Catholic source that was emailed to him. So there may well be a troll but it isn’t him. I’m curious as to where you got the questions, Bro, so please share if you’re so inclined.

These are my questions. These are things I have wondered. I began reading the Bible cover to cover last year and when I came across God not allowing wooden graven images, this brought up serious concern because I thought about how heavily obsessed the churches are decorated with statues. That is all. Haha.

I also was wondering about praying in repetitions and praying in vein.

I wanted to be as blunt as possible so that I may get the correct information. Sometimes it helps to have real life Catholic people explain these issues with me instead of reading internet drabble in fear of not knowing if the information is valid or whatnot.

It seems that all three of my Catholic sources have all told me the same information and assured me that the Catholic church has good intentions and is in fact not voilating the practices and teachings in the Bible when it comes to prayers and statues.

Thank you all for your information!

 

[Catholic_Bro]

As in my previous post, apologies for prejudging you.

Now to this post, let’s start with some ground rules. First, please be patient with every question or issue you may have. I assure you that the Catholic Church has encountered every question or concern you may have, and has answered them. Don’t be too quick to make up your mind about an issue until you have heard the response from the Church.

As to the use of the word apocrypha. Catholics do not refer to the Deuterocanonicals with this word. A quick history on these books, Martin Luther decided on his own in the 1500’s to take them out of the Bible b/c they refuted his theology he had created. He even tried to take out several books from the New Testament. He also added a word to Scripture (he added “alone” to create his doctrine of “faith alone”, which is unbiblical). The Bible that Martin Luther decided to become editor of had been used by every Christian for more than 1000 years. You need to think long and hard about where Luther got the authority to make changes to Scripture (quick hint, he didn’t have the authority to do so.)

As to your fiance, I would suggest you speak to your priest about your parish RCIA classes. As we are already in Lent, she will have to take a look at next year’s classes. I would also STRONGLY encourage you to join her in the RCIA classes and begin learning your faith much better. You are tempting prey for the anti-Catholics out there because you don’t have a strong grounding in the Christian faith. (As an aside, joining the RCIA classes for your fiance do not require her to become Catholic, or commit her to joining. It is the process to become Catholic, but she is free to leave at any point.)

I would also strongly encourage you to read the resources that have been given in the thread, they are excellent resources to start you on the road to learning your faith.

God Bless!

I fullly understand and am fully aware of Martin Luther and him throwing the books out. THis is what interested me.

About my fiance. We have been together for over 4 years, got engaged 3 months ago and are getting married on February 25, 2012.

My fiance and I have grown up in the same neighborhood coincidentally as our Parish Priest. He has known me my whole life and has known my fiance for years. My fiance has sung in our choir for 3 years while I have been the church pianist. The whole parish is very well acquainted with my fiance. She hasn’t gone through RCIA simply because every fall when the classes start, she finds herself completely booked with college and work.

We have met with our priest several times about our marriage date. We have our Pre Cana classes set up. There is a lot of history with her and the past experiences with other religious sects (Baptist, Methodist, Non-Denomination).

She has had the same opinion for about 3 years about how she does not believe the Baptist church is right for her (she was raised Baptist). She completely fell in love with Catholicism and believes that this is the truth and the only way. One big turn off she has is the raising of hands competition in the Baptist church and the fakeness as she calls it. The multiple churches she has went to have all talked about money, debt, and secluar problems throughout their whole church services and she does not like that one bit. She loves that the Catholic church actually praises and worships God in a respectable manner and has so much genuineness about it.

 

[Cruxis117]

I need someone to correct me and straighten me out if I am misunderstanding any of this.

First of all, I have been raised Catholic. I’m actually getting married in February next year in the Catholic church.

Now, I have done a lot of research and read the Bible. There are quite a bit of concerns I have with the Catholic church. Many have to do with the Apocrypha, the Dogma, Archangels, the Trinity, Praying to Saints.

However, for the purpose of being simple, I only will bring forth two concerns that I have. In my opinion, the TRUE church of God should be perfect and consistent with the Bible. Therefore, if these two issues contradict the Bible, then surely I should have my answer about whether or not to follow the Catholic church or not. I will site the verse where it says it is forbidden.

I would like for a fellow Catholic to please tell me why the Catholic church still does these two things and please tell me if I’m misunderstanding this or not.

1. Statues in the Catholic church are explicitly forbidden by the teachings in the Bible, yet Catholic churches and followers still have tons of statues in the church and in homes. Exodus 20:4-5 You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God,
2. Praying the rosary is a perfect example of praying in vain. This is said to be forbidden. Jesus tells us not to pray in vain. Matthew 6:7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.

Obviously Cat Herder made a great post, but I wanted to add something to what he said. In relation to the “Statues” statement, surely you’ve heard of the Ark of the Covenant, yes? The one which held the Manna and the Rod of Aaron and the 10 Commandments. Well, did you know that on the lid are two Golden Angels? Isn’t that against what it’s said in Exodus? Hardly. Likewise, this standard applies to the Statues (similar to photographs, just 3D rather than a 2D picture). Or, if you don’t believe me, look at when Moses held the Rod which had the Bronze Snake upon it, which when anyone who was infected looked upon it, they were healed. God forbids worship of these items. However, he does not forbid religious symbols.

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

It seems that all three of my Catholic sources have all told me the same information and assured me that the Catholic church has good intentions and is in fact not voilating the practices and teachings in the Bible when it comes to prayers and statues.

Thank you all for your information!

Here’s something that helped me when I made a commitment to Catholicism. Remember, The Church has been since the Apostles, established by Jesus. That’s over two thousand years of history. Every single concern anyone has had, has been addressed. If you ever think you’ve been pinned in a corner by someone theologically, or you think you see a certain verse that might contradict the Church, or anything that might shake your belief in the Catholic Church always give the Church “innocent, until proven guilty” stance and research, ask fellow Catholics learned in doctrine and dogma and always be intellectually honest.

If there was a silver bullet verse or stance found by others outside the Church, we wouldn’t be Catholics today. I thank God everyday for such an unshakable foundation of truth guided by the Holy Spirit by the promise of Christ and that the gates of Hell will never prevail against her

 

[Catholic_Bro]

I am just so overwhelmed with the amount of websites, books, readings, and excerpts given to me in this thread it is truly amazing and very humbling. I thank all of you for your help, understanding, and caring words. I will read through as much information that was given as I possibly can without burning myself out. Haha.

Given my background that I have shared with all of you, I have to admit that I did search outside of the Catholic church on purpose several times in my life.

1. High school: After going to a Catholic school from K-8… I went to a non-denomination high school, went to a baptist Bible study group and sang in a Methodist church choir. This was intentional. I still went to Catholic mass every Sunday in this whole time period. I went to so many non-denomination and baptist youth groups because I was addicted to searching for the truth. At that point in time I found that none of these churches even hold a candle to the Catholic church.

One thing about me is that I refuse to be born and raised into a religion and follow it until I die without knowing what else is out there so that I am not ignorant, naive, and stupid for staying in a shell.

1. I have heavily research Buddhism, HInduism, and Islam. I found out a LOT of things. Buddhism is not really a religion. They even admit that they are more of a spiritual help type of group. Hinduism is just so far out and insane, I cannot type enough about how funny this experience was. And Islam was interesting. I read the Quran and found it to be contridicting, did not make sense, was not put together right and has a lot of issues. At that point in time, I found that the religions throughout the world have definitely got it wrong and they cant possibly be the truth.

You can tell that I am VERY close to completely closing my research of outside religions since I have found all sects of Christianity and the big 3 religions of the world to be a sham.

1. This is the final stage and hopefully the end of my outside research. I have looked into the Jehovah’s Witness church for the past 2 years in great depth. I have 3 coworkers that belong to this group and I have studied in GREAT detail about what their beliefs are. This is the current stage that I am in right now.

I pretty much boiled two churches down… Catholic church and Jehovah’s Witness Kingdom Hall.

The reason why I have asked a few of the questions that I did in this thread is because these are the last questions I have in deciding. There are a few things that I just needed closure on and you guys really helped me out and I give my greatest thanks.

1. Stage 4 is most likely going to be for the rest of my life and that is practicing and researching the Catholic faith.

I know that most of you think that I am insane, nuts, or just plain crazy for doing the things that I have done throughout my life from age 14 to my current age, 24. But these 10 years have shown me so much about religion in the world today. When I am faced with a mormon, buddhist, baptist, or hindu, I know that I have already looked so deep into all of their religions that I will know without a doubt that I am right where I need to be, the Catholic Church.

I am one of the most open-minded individuals some of you will ever meet. But I’m also not a fool into believing any of the crazy dribble drabble I’ve researched in any of the religions I’ve looked into. Researching this intensely and extensively has really given me the truth about a lot and I wouldn’t have done it any differently.

Again… thank you all for the information and support.

 

[Linda_Marie]

I fullly understand and am fully aware of Martin Luther and him throwing the books out. THis is what interested me.

Actually, Martin Luther didn’t remove them from the bible. He moved them to a separate section and promoted the idea that they were not divinely inspired. This separation continued in many different translations until a publisher decided to remove them althogether to save printing costs and boost sales.

The question is: Who has the authority to determine what is divinely inspired? Who has the authority to Teach what Christ taught? Is it just anybody who picks up the bible, or is it the Church which has always taught was the Apostles taught?

Consider also that the early Church did not have the Bible. They had the Apostles and those who were taught by the Apostles. Literacy was not as widespread as it is now. Most teaching were oral, as were all of Christ’s teachings. It wasn’t till years later that they started writing things down.

Then there were many many writings. Not all churches (meaning the Church in Antioch, or the Church in Thessalonika, or the Church in Corinth etc) had all the same writings. Some of the writings they had were heretical (as are some of the documents referenced on the ECF site I linked below, like the Gospel of Thomas). These were being read at Mass as Scripture. It eventually became necessary to determine which of these writings taught what Jesus taught. This the Church did with several councils which determined the canon of the Bible.

The Church came first, then the Bible. If there was anything in the writings which contradicted the teachings of the Church, the document was not included in the canon. Then there is the reason or the purpose for which the canon of the Bible was determined. It was for use in the Liturgy, not as a complete repository of the Teachings of Christ.

The Bible does not contain everything that Jesus taught. This is confirmed in the Gospel of John in which he says that there were many many things which Jesus said and did that were not recorded.

As others have recommended, check out the Early Church Fathers. See above - the banner for www.The Fathers Know Best.com.

But Polycarp also was not only instructed by apostles, and conversed with many who had seen Christ, but was also, by apostles in Asia, appointed bishop of the Church in Smyrna, whom I also saw in my early youth, for he tarried [on earth] a very long time, and, when a very old man, gloriously and most nobly suffering martyrdom, departed this life, having always taught the things which he had learned from the apostles, and which the Church has handed down, and which alone are true.
earlychristianwritings.com/polycarp.html

May God bless your search for the Truth.

 

[NewsTheMan]

Hmmm. Are you reading my mind? I was just thinking the same.

Just got off a thread where the poster was asking very similar questions. Thread got pretty heated and he was banned.

He may be reading your mind, but you obviously haven’t been reading the thread.

yep, two typical Fundamentalist Questions!
Peace, Carlan

I hope you’re being sarcastic here. Eek, questions from someone struggling with their faith! Oh noes! Must be a fundamentalist troll!

I’m with you zz. Why do non-Catholics come in here and try to pretend to be Catholic? They don’t even bother to read The Catechism first. It is so transparent that this individual knows nothing about what the Catholic Church does or does not teach. The apocrapha? The Dogma? Puuuuuleeeezzz?

Again, I hope this is sarcastic otherwise you will look extremely silly.

I am disappointed that a Catholic cannot come onto a Catholic website and ask legitimate questions. He is judged first. How nice. This is exactly the kind of advertisement we should give. Catholics that ask questions are trolls. Nice guys.

 

[NewsTheMan]

I know that most of you think that I am insane, nuts, or just plain crazy for doing the things that I have done throughout my life from age 14 to my current age, 24. But these 10 years have shown me so much about religion in the world today. When I am faced with a mormon, buddhist, baptist, or hindu, I know that I have already looked so deep into all of their religions that I will know without a doubt that I am right where I need to be, the Catholic Church.

I am one of the most open-minded individuals some of you will ever meet. But I’m also not a fool into believing any of the crazy dribble drabble I’ve researched in any of the religions I’ve looked into. Researching this intensely and extensively has really given me the truth about a lot and I wouldn’t have done it any differently.

Again… thank you all for the information and support.

Nobody thinks you are nuts, bro.

We have all had a weird, wonderful, strange spiritual journey in some way or another. I know that I have. I think your story is a good one. It’s exactly the kind of witness that Catholicism needs. You researched literally everything and where did you land up? Catholicism. That’s special - and it’s a gift from God. He loved you enough to let you be a wandering sheep. He called you back and you followed. I think that’s pretty awesome.

I think you’ll find, as I did, that researching and learning about the faith is one of the most delightful things one can do. I literally cannot get enough of it. The Church is deep in so many ways - theology, history, socially, spiritually, intellectually. And of course - we have the sacraments and the Eucharist.

I’m glad you came here and that we were able to help. I hope you stick around on the forums and visit the different sections. I mostly lurk, and post perhaps twice a day, but I spend a lot of time here.

A slight word of warning:

At this stage, and in the future, you will probably experience a magnificent and overwhelming ‘spiritual high’ where you will want to pray often, take up different tasks, buy books, etc etc etc. Do not overdo it, and do not rely on this feeling. After a while, the ‘high’ will go away - and that’s when the real test of faith begins. I remember when I first re-converted I would pray the Rosary everyday plus the Divine Office 4 times a day plus Mass 4 times a week plus half and hour of extra meditation. Right now I am struggling to even say the Rosary everyday, and I realized I did too much too soon and relied on the spiritual high rather than relying on my love for God.

Good luck bro!

 

[Catholic_Bro]

Eek, questions from someone struggling with their faith! Oh noes! Must be a fundamentalist troll!

Catholics that ask questions are trolls. Nice guys.

hahaha…

I’m a regular forum goer of other forums, so I can relate to what these guys probably deal with on a regular basis. I don’t take offense. It must be worse on a religious forum. I can’t imagine all of the anti-catholics and athiests that probably pop into this forum from time to time just to troll some laughs for their own sake.

I guess some of my questions might be “mainstream fundamentalist” or perhaps troll-like according to CAF, but maybe that’s because they are hot topics that many people want answers to since the Bible does strictly talk about these subjects in it’s teachings.I don’t believe there is one person on this forum that understands the Bible in it’s whole entirety. With that said, it may be wise to carefully consider whether to risk the chance of running off a person who is so close to finding the truth and damaging their search by bringing it to a screeching halt in fear of looking any more stupid by asking such questions.

 

[ESMDHokie77]

God be with you in your crisis of faith Bro. You came to the right forum (CAF) for help understanding the Truth.

I, too, vouch for Catholicism for Dummies being a great book.

Peace,
Phil

 

[zz912]

I fullly understand and am fully aware of Martin Luther and him throwing the books out. THis is what interested me.

About my fiance. We have been together for over 4 years, got engaged 3 months ago and are getting married on February 25, 2012.

My fiance and I have grown up in the same neighborhood coincidentally as our Parish Priest. He has known me my whole life and has known my fiance for years. My fiance has sung in our choir for 3 years while I have been the church pianist. The whole parish is very well acquainted with my fiance. She hasn’t gone through RCIA simply because every fall when the classes start, she finds herself completely booked with college and work.

We have met with our priest several times about our marriage date. We have our Pre Cana classes set up. There is a lot of history with her and the past experiences with other religious sects (Baptist, Methodist, Non-Denomination).

She has had the same opinion for about 3 years about how she does not believe the Baptist church is right for her (she was raised Baptist). She completely fell in love with Catholicism and believes that this is the truth and the only way. One big turn off she has is the raising of hands competition in the Baptist church and the fakeness as she calls it. The multiple churches she has went to have all talked about money, debt, and secluar problems throughout their whole church services and she does not like that one bit. She loves that the Catholic church actually praises and worships God in a respectable manner and has so much genuineness about it.

If she is seriously considering joining the Catholic Church, but has scheduling conflicts with the RCIA classes, I would suggest having a sit down with your priest. RCIA is the normal way for adults to join, but not hte only way. The priest can work with her and test her on her knowledge and understanding of the faith. He can allow her to come into the Church and receive the Sacraments outside of RCIA. Definitely sit down with him!

We wouldn’t want someone deprived of the Fullness of the Truth and the Sacraments over scheduling issues!

 

[Randy_Carson]

1. Statues in the Catholic church are explicitly forbidden by the teachings in the Bible, yet Catholic churches and followers still have tons of statues in the church and in homes. Exodus 20:4-5 You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God,

Do Catholics Worship Statues?
catholic.com/library/Do_Catholics_Worship_Statues.asp

 

[Randy_Carson]

1. Praying the rosary is a perfect example of praying in vain. This is said to be forbidden. Jesus tells us not to pray in vain. Matthew 6:7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.

Matthew 6:7-8: Vain Repetition

Many non-Catholics believe that praying the rosary violates Jesus’ teaching about “vain repetition” found in His Sermon on the Mount:

---

“And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.” (Matthew 6:7-8)

Immediately after saying this, He went on to teach the crowd the following prayer:

"This, then, is how you should pray: ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’” (Matthew 6:9-13)

Jesus didn’t say, “You might want to say something like the following”…he said, “When you pray, say” and He gave us precise words that we should pray daily for our daily bread, and these words have been repeated for 2,000 years. Is this “vain repetition”? Hardly.

Matthew 26:43-44
43When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. 44So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.

Jesus prayed a third time saying the same things he had said previously. Is this “vain repetition”? Hardly.

Revelation 4:8
Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under his wings.Day and night they never stop saying: “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come.”

The creatures keep saying the same thing over and over and over again - day and night. Is this “vain repetition”? Hardly.

 

[wmscott]

I need someone to correct me and straighten me out if I am misunderstanding any of this.

First of all, I have been raised Catholic. I’m actually getting married in February next year in the Catholic church.

Now, I have done a lot of research and read the Bible. There are quite a bit of concerns I have with the Catholic church. Many have to do with the Apocrypha, the Dogma, Archangels, the Trinity, Praying to Saints.

However, for the purpose of being simple, I only will bring forth two concerns that I have. In my opinion, the TRUE church of God should be perfect and consistent with the Bible. Therefore, if these two issues contradict the Bible, then surely I should have my answer about whether or not to follow the Catholic church or not. I will site the verse where it says it is forbidden.

I would like for a fellow Catholic to please tell me why the Catholic church still does these two things and please tell me if I’m misunderstanding this or not.

1. Statues in the Catholic church are explicitly forbidden by the teachings in the Bible, yet Catholic churches and followers still have tons of statues in the church and in homes. Exodus 20:4-5 You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God,
2. Praying the rosary is a perfect example of praying in vain. This is said to be forbidden. Jesus tells us not to pray in vain. Matthew 6:7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.

Hi Catholic Bro and welcome, I am attaching a file on the Rosary that may help a bit. It is not my work so I do not get the credit.

 

[GreggAlvarez]

I pretty much boiled two churches down… Catholic church and Jehovah’s Witness Kingdom Hall.

At least they involve Christ.

The reason why I have asked a few of the questions that I did in this thread is because these are the last questions I have in deciding. There are a few things that I just needed closure on and you guys really helped me out and I give my greatest thanks.

We should be the ones thanking you. You have given us (more the other ones) an opportunity to share the Faith to an open-minded soul. Somebody might say, “So, if somebody does not agree with you, then they are not open-minded?” Not at all. That could not be farther from the Truth. Being open-minded is about taking the information completely unbias and making the search for yourself (and not about agreement or disagreement). You have done that and then some!

1. Stage 4 is most likely going to be for the rest of my life and that is practicing and researching the Catholic faith.

What I absolutely LOVE about the Catholic Faith that no other religion or non-religion is the reality that it just does not stop. In no particular order (except the first is best): Adoration, Scriptures, saints, devotions, practicing different spiritualities (Carmelite, Ignatian, Franciscan, etc…), history, philosophy, theology, liturgy, apologetics, music, art, literature, architecture, etc…

There is absolutely nothing wrong with studying Scriptures all your life with none of the other things (assuming the theology is correct). But, some of us (like me) are just not built that way. I study Scriptures for myself and for myself only. I like other stuff just as much as Scripture and I am not afraid to say that. Most of those topics are linked in one way or another anyway! But it all comes down to Christ, the Truth!

So much to learn! So little time!

I know that most of you think that I am insane, nuts, or just plain crazy for doing the things that I have done throughout my life from age 14 to my current age, 24. But these 10 years have shown me so much about religion in the world today. When I am faced with a mormon, buddhist, baptist, or hindu, I know that I have already looked so deep into all of their religions that I will know without a doubt that I am right where I need to be, the Catholic Church.

Of course you are insane! It is the others who are not insane ENOUGH to make that leap into the light, a leap into the “infinite within the confines of the finite.” (part of a sentence from a novel that I am working on of my conversion from Atheism to Catholicism).

The Catholic Church is so insane that it says, “The Truth dwells here.” Jesus was so insane that He said, “I AM” and “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.” But, I am only using the superficial meaning. Are Jesus, His Church, the Catholics, and people make an honest search for Truth and are not Catholics… Are they the insane ones? Or are the ones who do not make a search the dull ones? In all seriousness, I take the latter stance. But, for the fun of it, I take the former.

I am one of the most open-minded individuals some of you will ever meet. But I’m also not a fool into believing any of the crazy dribble drabble I’ve researched in any of the religions I’ve looked into. Researching this intensely and extensively has really given me the truth about a lot and I wouldn’t have done it any differently.

I agree. You are certainly NOT a fool for believing them! They all seem believable to a degree. That is why those religions exist in the first place: Because they are believable. I take this stance that I know is complete Truth: Any honest person who is deprived on any bias and who makes an honest search for Truth will eventually be a Catholic in this world or the next.

Again… thank you all for the information and support.

Indeed, my friend.

 

[Cat_Herder]

At least they involve Christ.

The JWs don’t as they believe He was just an angel.

We should be the ones thanking you. You have given us (more the other ones) an opportunity to share the Faith to an open-minded soul.

 

[Catholic_Bro]

The JWs don’t as they believe He was just an angel.

Not only do they believe its an angel, but they believe that Jesus Christ is human form of Michael, the Archangel, which is an interesting point of view being that the Bible states that Jesus existed in the beginning… who would that be?? hmmmm. MICHAEL the archangel.

There could be some credence to that depending on how you view the Bible scriptures, however, I have had such a hard time believing that Jesus is Michael, the Archangel. Some part of me just can’t really believe it since in my mind, they are two completely separate entities.

But, yeah… you are right to a point. They still do see him as Christ, though.

 

[GreggAlvarez]

Not only do they believe its an angel, but they believe that Jesus Christ is human form of Michael, the Archangel, which is an interesting point of view being that the Bible states that Jesus existed in the beginning… who would that be?? hmmmm. MICHAEL the archangel.

There could be some credence to that depending on how you view the Bible scriptures, however, I have had such a hard time believing that Jesus is Michael, the Archangel. Some part of me just can’t really believe it since in my mind, they are two completely separate entities.

But, yeah… you are right to a point. They still do see him as Christ, though.

Dang… You really did do your homework! Was it the New World Translation of their Scriptures that you used?

“The Word was a god…”??? Perplexing.

Their main verse is the first part of Isaiah 43:10

“You are my witnesses, says the LORD, my servants whom I have chosen To know and believe in me and understand that it is I.”

But, if you would read on in the same verse and then look at “The Word was a god”

“Before me no god was formed, and after me there shall be none.”

The Word as a god is clearly not before nor after. So, there is only God’s contemporaneously existing god. So, there was God and god. But, “You shall not have other gods besides me.” (Exodus 20:3) This is clearly wrong.

John 8:58 ~ Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM.”

I AM is something only God Himself can say. Christ also says, “I am the beginning and the end” in Revelations 22.

So, Jesus is God.

 

[neophyte]

…I know that most of you think that I am insane, nuts, or just plain crazy for doing the things that I have done throughout my life from age 14 to my current age, 24…

I don’t think you’re that unique…

…I am one of the most open-minded individuals some of you will ever meet. But I’m also not a fool into believing any of the crazy dribble drabble I’ve researched in any of the religions I’ve looked into…

Someone (C.S. Lewis? G.K Chesterton?) once said something like “do not keep your mind so open that you allow people to throw rubbish into it.”

 

[Catholic_Bro]

I don’t think you’re that unique…

Well, i know I’m not an anomaly. lol. there are many people that go off on these tangents.

Someone (C.S. Lewis? G.K Chesterton?) once said something like “do not keep your mind so open that you allow people to throw rubbish into it.”

Thanks for that quote. I like that!