Catholics Resist Same-Sex 'Marriage'

[Crow]

And for everyone saying that Jesus would be all about love and acceptance, I say take the time to read the new testament when you have the chance. Seems Jesus warned of the fires of hell just as often as He proclaimed eternal hapiness in heaven. Jesus had no problem telling someone to their face their actions and decisions were placing them in mortal danger.

 

[fix]

I am sorry but I don’t see it as un Christian to allow two people who love each other to marry. Accepting this will not harm your marriage or relationship with your wife or your children. We should be more worried about heterosexual couples who marry three and four times with out ever thinking about what they do to their children. That is an abuse of the “institution of marriage.”

If they “love” each other why can they not marry as often as they want? I mean they love each other, right?

If you read the bible and see it for what it is, Jesus was always questioning those around him who judged others without looking at themselves. He questioned Jewish traditions that didn’t make sense and was one of the biggest reasons for them rejecting him. Because they were following the writings in black and white and not for what they stand for.

Actually, He judged them for being hypocrites. He told people to do exactly as they tell you to do, but do not do as they do.

Like when he helped a sick person on the sabbath because that women was sick and dying and he performed a miracle and cured her and the Jewish hierarchy saw it as a complete defiance of the word of God. Which was not to do anything on that day including performing a miracle. They reported him to the religious authorities and he simply said, I saved a women today. That is a deed that was done. He stood up for those that were poor and outcast because they were Gods people too. Wether they were right or wrong. And I disagree, Jesus would have surrounded himself with many different types of people. They are all his people.

When did He accept and affirm sin as good?

 

[edwest2]

Pope Benedict has made it clear that marriage is more than just two people who are willing to enter into it.

Divorce, except for adultery, is against Church teaching.

Fornication is always wrong.

Sex with prostitutes is always wrong.

Redefining marriage is against Church teaching.

It is obvious that the goal is any mix and match sexual relationship imaginable. This is against Church teaching.

Sin is always against Church teaching.

I had a friend who was bisexual. After coming to Christ, she stopped her behavior.

God bless,
Ed

 

[robertla]

Jesus never said that homosexuality was an abomination. That is in the old testament. And the old testament is OLD. What you are saying is that we should follow word by word the teachings of the old testament - word for word. If we were to do that, we would have to stone adulterers, liars, thieves, we would still have slaves and commit other acts that in todays world are ignorant and not appropriate. So my feeling is that when you meet a homo sexual man or women, and see that they are no different than us except for their sexual preferences, you see that they are just as human and just as kind as you and I can be. Some of them are even Roman Catholic and follow our traditions and love Jesus just as much as you and I. Only they are different. So just open yourself to the possibility that this one statement in the bible about homosexuality just might not be appropriate today. Just like stoning is not appropriate, just like having slaves is not appropriate, just like an eye for an eye is not appropriate. Question yourself as to why some of us want to pick one sentence and make a stand on that one or two old commands that put your whole belief system of caring, loving, and accepting those that are not like us into question. I am sure you do not believe in stoning, and slavery, and other such commands that are in the old testament. The Holy Church has always and will always make mistakes in its decisions. They are human. Only God is infallible. May our knowledgeable and wise Pope continue to pray for all of us and may he have the strength and perseverance to continue to search for the truth and see that this stand of marriage being a man and a women ONLY could or just might be a mistake.

 

[Lance]

Well, Duh! It has been Catholic teaching for 2000 years, it aint gonna change! Truth does not change just because it may be inconvient for some people.

 

[estesbob]

Jesus never said that homosexuality was an abomination. That is in the old testament. And the old testament is OLD. What you are saying is that we should follow word by word the teachings of the old testament - word for word. If we were to do that, we would have to stone adulterers, liars, thieves, we would still have slaves and commit other acts that in todays world are ignorant and not appropriate. So my feeling is that when you meet a homo sexual man or women, and see that they are no different than us except for their sexual preferences, you see that they are just as human and just as kind as you and I can be. Some of them are even Roman Catholic and follow our traditions and love Jesus just as much as you and I. Only they are different. So just open yourself to the possibility that this one statement in the bible about homosexuality just might not be appropriate today. Just like stoning is not appropriate, just like having slaves is not appropriate, just like an eye for an eye is not appropriate. Question yourself as to why some of us want to pick one sentence and make a stand on that one or two old commands that put your whole belief system of caring, loving, and accepting those that are not like us into question. I am sure you do not believe in stoning, and slavery, and other such commands that are in the old testament. The Holy Church has always and will always make mistakes in its decisions. They are human. Only God is infallible. May our knowledgeable and wise Pope continue to pray for all of us and may he have the strength and perseverance to continue to search for the truth and see that this stand of marriage being a man and a women ONLY could or just might be a mistake.

You can not seperate Jesus from is Church. He gave the Church the authority to speak for him s the idea that Jesus does not condemn homosexual behavior is specious. Likewise the idea that the Church has been in error for 2,000 years on this (and the Jews 1,000 years before that ) would, if accepted, make suspect EVERY teaching of the Church from the Ressurection on down.

What you are enageing in is presentism-that is the idea that the current generation is the wisest in the History of mankind and that everyone who went before us just didnt get it. Just because the culture around you embraces deviancy does not mean you have to and it most certainly doesnt mean the Church should abandon its teachings to accomodate one particual culture at one praticular moment in time.

 

[robertla]

Well Duh! Then you know that the Catholic Church has made multiple mistakes in its “teachings” over 2,000 years. Too many to list in the forum. Complete 360 degree idealogical changes. It just moves slower which is ok, I guess. But you should know all of the teachings by now, if you don’t, I suggest you look into it. You will marvel at some of them. The Church condemned those that thought the earth was round at one time. So the “teachings” luckily for all of us WILL change as long as the Church is run by mankind. It will only benefit our Christian rooted beliefs on love and acceptance and not judging others for being different. That is the real power of the church and the Holy See. May God bless the Catholic Church always.

 

[estesbob]

Well Duh! Then you know that the Catholic Church has made multiple mistakes in its “teachings” over 2,000 years. Too many to list in the forum. Complete 360 degree idealogical changes. It just moves slower which is ok, I guess. But you should know all of the teachings by now, if you don’t, I suggest you look into it. You will marvel at some of them. The Church condemned those that thought the earth was round at one time. So the “teachings” luckily for all of us WILL change as long as the Church is run by mankind. It will only benefit our Christian rooted beliefs on love and acceptance and not judging others for being different. That is the real power of the church and the Holy See. May God bless the Catholic Church always.

The Church has NEVER changed its teaching on faith and Morals. Never. If you can give us an example of where they have please post it. The usual homosexual apologism about not judgeing others(which rarely comes up in any thread but those on homosexuality ) is duly noted.

 

[robertla]

I am sorry but you are wrong and your statements are wrong about the absolute infallibility of Church teachings. If you read history correctly you will see clearly that the Church teachings have evolved over the 2,000 years. It continues to evolve, because it is organic. Our church has made so many changes, so many mistakes, in addition to giving us so many wonderful things and accomplished so much in its history in terms of creating positive values. But to believe that we are not going to evolve into a better more open church is to defeat the purpose of our wonderful teachings. "Deviancy"defined by you and some of your friends today is not appropriate. Long skirts on women is not appropriate, stoning is not appropriate, judging someone for loving someone of the same sex is not appropriate. So if your argument of the church teachings being infallible and never changing for 2000 years were right and if we didn’t have so many historical apologies by the different Popes during our 2,000 years of Christ, I would have to give in and agree with you.

But all of us know that the Church has made mistakes and is not infallible and all of us know that just in the years we have been on the earth, the Vatican Council has changed its mind on so many of its teachings and principals. Too many to list here. So please be open that we are not infallible and that maybe we are wrong again this time. I don’t understand why Gay Marriage is so important to homosexual’s because I don’t get it but I know many of them who have found Christ, and not become “straight” rather just accepted that they too are Gods Children and that he MADE them that way. Or they would be hetero sexuals. May God Bless us and show us the wisdom of his kingdom and guide us to be fair, honest, and loving Christians.

 

[Lance]

I am sorry but you are wrong and your statements are wrong about the absolute infallibility of Church teachings. If you read history correctly you will see clearly that the Church teachings have evolved over the 2,000 years. It continues to evolve, because it is organic. Our church has made so many changes, so many mistakes, in addition to giving us so many wonderful things and accomplished so much in its history in terms of creating positive values. But to believe that we are not going to evolve into a better more open church is to defeat the purpose of our wonderful teachings. "Deviancy"defined by you and some of your friends today is not appropriate. Long skirts on women is not appropriate, stoning is not appropriate, judging someone for loving someone of the same sex is not appropriate. So if your argument of the church teachings being infallible and never changing for 2000 years were right and if we didn’t have so many historical apologies by the different Popes during our 2,000 years of Christ, I would have to give in and agree with you.

But all of us know that the Church has made mistakes and is not infallible and all of us know that just in the years we have been on the earth, the Vatican Council has changed its mind on so many of its teachings and principals. Too many to list here. So please be open that we are not infallible and that maybe we are wrong again this time. I don’t understand why Gay Marriage is so important to homosexual’s because I don’t get it but I know many of them who have found Christ, and not become “straight” rather just accepted that they too are Gods Children and that he MADE them that way. Or they would be hetero sexuals. May God Bless us and show us the wisdom of his kingdom and guide us to be fair, honest, and loving Christians.

Show me just one instance where the Church has changed it’s stance on faith and morals.

 

[estesbob]

I am sorry but you are wrong and your statements are wrong about the absolute infallibility of Church teachings. If you read history correctly you will see clearly that the Church teachings have evolved over the 2,000 years. It continues to evolve, because it is organic. Our church has made so many changes, so many mistakes, in addition to giving us so many wonderful things and accomplished so much in its history in terms of creating positive values. But to believe that we are not going to evolve into a better more open church is to defeat the purpose of our wonderful teachings. "Deviancy"defined by you and some of your friends today is not appropriate. Long skirts on women is not appropriate, stoning is not appropriate, judging someone for loving someone of the same sex is not appropriate. So if your argument of the church teachings being infallible and never changing for 2000 years were right and if we didn’t have so many historical apologies by the different Popes during our 2,000 years of Christ, I would have to give in and agree with you.

But all of us know that the Church has made mistakes and is not infallible and all of us know that just in the years we have been on the earth, the Vatican Council has changed its mind on so many of its teachings and principals. Too many to list here. So please be open that we are not infallible and that maybe we are wrong again this time. I don’t understand why Gay Marriage is so important to homosexual’s because I don’t get it but I know many of them who have found Christ, and not become “straight” rather just accepted that they too are Gods Children and that he MADE them that way. Or they would be hetero sexuals. May God Bless us and show us the wisdom of his kingdom and guide us to be fair, honest, and loving Christians.

Nice try but you have yet to show where the Church has changed its teachng on Faith or Morals(long skirts! give me a break). Meanwhile I would not recommend people puting their immortal souls in danger based on the opinion of an anonymous internet poster.

 

[Father_of_9]

Jesus teaches us about marriage from a positive standpoint, meaning what or who constitutes a valid marriage. He talked about a man and a woman being joined together and that the bond is permanent. He didn’t talk in a negative standpoint about who couldn’t be married, That means that only a man and a woman can be married, not any other combination of people or things. This has been the accepted norm for most Christians and societies since then until recently. Now you have some people and groups promoting all types of marriage combinations. Marriage between a husband and wife with resulting children is the fundamental building block of society. If we allow society to condone or even promote alternative types of marriage, we will weaken the structure of society and it will come crumbling down, much like a house that is built with substandard materials.

 

[Adonis33]

Well Duh! Then you know that the Catholic Church has made multiple mistakes in its “teachings” over 2,000 years. Too many to list in the forum. Complete 360 degree idealogical changes. It just moves slower which is ok, I guess. But you should know all of the teachings by now, if you don’t, I suggest you look into it. You will marvel at some of them. The Church condemned those that thought the earth was round at one time. So the “teachings” luckily for all of us WILL change as long as the Church is run by mankind. It will only benefit our Christian rooted beliefs on love and acceptance and not judging others for being different. That is the real power of the church and the Holy See. May God bless the Catholic Church always.

When you spin 360 degrees, you are where you started from.

Name a doctrine the Church has changed?

 

[fix]

I am sorry but you are wrong and your statements are wrong about the absolute infallibility of Church teachings. If you read history correctly you will see clearly that the Church teachings have evolved over the 2,000 years. It continues to evolve, because it is organic. Our church has made so many changes, so many mistakes,

Please list the teachings that have been reversed.

 

[Crow]

When you spin 360 degrees, you are where you started from.

Name a doctrine the Church has changed?

The pope and the entire magisterium does not have the authority to allow same sex partners to get married, nor change any teachings on matters of faith or morals.

This has always been, and has always been applied, hence why teachings on faith and morals has never cahnged however they have evolved.

 

[estesbob]

The pope and the entire magisterium does not have the authority to allow same sex partners to get married, nor change any teachings on matters of faith or morals.

This has always been, and has always been applied, hence why teachings on faith and morals has never cahnged however they have evolved.

On come now-everybody knows its only a matter of time until the Church not only allows women priests but allows them to be narried toieach other.

 

[Adonis33]

On come now-everybody knows its only a matter of time until the Church not only allows women priests but allows them to be narried toieach other.

Maybe the Church will turn 360 degrees on the issue.

 

[robertla]

Thanks for your replies and requests.

The moral teachings of the Catholic Church have changed and evolved over time. This is certainly undeniable by anyone today. There are so many examples, too many to list however, I have four large examples of such change in moral teachings in the areas of usury, marriage, slavery, and religious freedom. There is an abundant amount of research and information on line including from EWTN sources. Furthermore, there are so many examples of change in the way we worship and how we have worshiped throughout the centuries that have changed based on Society and its norms at the time. So to say that the church has not changed or evolved its moral stand on issues concerning humanity can certainly be challenged.

We certainly don’t put to death those that are heretics - we don’t encourage slavery, even though for centuries the Church did. The issues of “marriage” have evolved over the centuries as well. This all available on line and for those of you that might think not, they are on Catholic sites.

Finally, regarding EstesBob comment “Meanwhile I would not recommend people puting their immortal souls in danger based on the opinion of an anonymous internet poster” - My response is that I am no more anonymous than you. And don’t you think that using fear and paranoia is outdated? As outdated as some of the churches OLD doctrines I have mentioned above. I am sure that our fellow Catholics can think on their own and not have to worry that they are putting their immortal souls in danger with a discussion. So I would ask that we don’t use scare tactics using the words “our soles.”

May God Bless

 

[fix]

TI have four large examples of such change in moral teachings in the areas of usury, marriage, slavery, and religious freedom.

None of those four items has shown any reversal in teaching. To be sure, doctrines can be developed with time, but not reversed.

Usury is still a sin. The meaning of money has changed.

Marriage is still between one man and one woman.

• Chattel* slavery has always been understood as intrinsically evil.

Religious freedom does not mean the Church teaches indifferentism now.

 

[estesbob]

Thanks for your replies and requests.

The moral teachings of the Catholic Church have changed and evolved over time. This is certainly undeniable by anyone today. There are so many examples, too many to list however, I have four large examples of such change in moral teachings in the areas of usury, marriage, slavery, and religious freedom. There is an abundant amount of research and information on line including from EWTN sources. Furthermore, there are so many examples of change in the way we worship and how we have worshiped throughout the centuries that have changed based on Society and its norms at the time. So to say that the church has not changed or evolved its moral stand on issues concerning humanity can certainly be challenged.

Well you did manage top dig up the top 2 alleged changes in moral teachngs. I really dont know what you mean by religious freedom but the other two are easy to address:

catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9709fea3.asp

catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9907fea2.asp

Haivng handily disposed of those cannards should I now beginn preparing to answer questions Gallelio, the Crusdaes and the Inquisitions?

May God Bless