Catholics shouldn't try to convert Jews

[TMC]

Well, Mr. Akin does offer a useful service for many readers. I too can understand most Vatican documents, at least at face value. But some things I would miss. His articles address: What does the document say? What does it not say? What is the context? and What is this likely to mean in my ongoing life as a Catholic? The problem isn’t Akin, the problem is the way some use Vatican documents to push through their own agenda.

Documents don’t directly mislead people, they imply things and people jump to wrong conclusions, strongly helped by biased media. We live in an age of specialization. There are groups that live/breathe/eat Catholic/Anglican ecumenism, that regularly issue statements about how the TEC and Catholic Church are drawing closer together each year, we are on the verge of a breakthrough for unity! Specialists tend to live in a bubble (in this case a 1965 bubble) oblivious to other developments going on.

There are lots of other specialized groups, each of which has a contact at the Vatican. Somewhere there’s a Church Commission on the Shortage of Bees, for whom this is the Crisis of Christianity. Their Vatican document will be released April 2016. It will hint at the drastic changes in liturgy, dogma and Social Action that will be forthcoming, and that diocesan neglect of the bees MUST COME TO AN END. Akin will then write a commentary to put this in perspective that ecological concern is important, but Catholic doctrine is not changed. The media will say doctrine is changed.

The problem is the Vatican’s Communications office.

I disagree to an extent. The problem is that the theology on some issues is complex, and on some issue the theology is unsettled. The Vatican documents attempt to reflect those complexities and uncertainties. I agree that they don’t always do a good job of that. But simply stripping away the complexities and uncertainties is also not the answer.

Let me add an example of what I mean. The same document could also be explained as containing four main points:

1. The Old Covenant with the Jews remains in effect and has not been superseded or revoked.
2. Jews may be saved without confessing Christ in this life, although the Church is unsure exactly how this occurs.
3. The Church has no institutional mission to convert the Jewish people.
4. Individual Catholics may witness Christ to individual Jews, if they do so respectfully and in a sensitive manner.

That summary give a very different feel than Mr. Akin’s summary, but it is accurate. His summary is also accurate. By focusing on different points, making points in different order, and glossing over different nuances, the document appears very different. If the Church wanted to communicate Mr. Akin’s message it would have done so. If the Church wanted to communicate my message, it could have done that. It made a deliberate choice to communicate what it did, nuances and all.

 

[Peter_J]

Not meaning to put too fine a point on it, but is this thread being pushed into a discussion of Jimmy Akin’s blog?

 

[JimG]

Let me add an example of what I mean. The same document could also be explained as containing four main points:

1. The Old Covenant with the Jews remains in effect and has not been superseded or revoked.
2. Jews may be saved without confessing Christ in this life, although the Church is unsure exactly how this occurs.
3. The Church has no institutional mission to convert the Jewish people.
4. Individual Catholics may witness Christ to individual Jews, if they do so respectfully and in a sensitive manner.

That summary give a very different feel than Mr. Akin’s summary, but it is accurate. His summary is also accurate. By focusing on different points, making points in different order, and glossing over different nuances, the document appears very different. If the Church wanted to communicate Mr. Akin’s message it would have done so. If the Church wanted to communicate my message, it could have done that. It made a deliberate choice to communicate what it did, nuances and all.

Well, your summary is even more succinct than Mr. Akin’s. You say that the Vatican document made a deliberate choice to communicate what it did, nuances and all. To me, it seems that it may have made a deliberate choice to muddy the waters without answering the questions that would inevitably arise.

I can hardly wait for the magisterial document on bees.

 

[commenter]

I can think of 50 problems for the Church, either internally or externally, in my city, or in my country. “Catholics proselytizing Jews” isn’t one of the top 50. Incredibly I haven’t read about any situations in the world where it is going on. But if it is an issue, say, in Bolivia, let the Bolivian bishops issue a document; or better yet, the local diocese where that is a problem.

The more issues that go out as a “Vatican document”, the less attention is paid to the actual world wide issues, such as the international campaign for abortion, same sex marriage, and persecution of Christians. The Vatican had more moral authority when it allowed fewer Vatican documents.

The problem is not so much what is in the documents, but that there are lots of movements and organizations that only want to hold their press conferences in Rome, where they struggle to get their views over someone’s signature, with some Vatican department stationary. In the fine print, there is usually mention that this is not a magisterial document, or this is just a draft, or something like that, but the media omits that, and blows up a few points to make it sound like the Church doctrine is changeable.

If the “boy cries wolf” too many times, people pay little attention if the pope denounces the media or politicians for supporting the killing of unborn children.

 

[phil19034]

FYI - Dr. Taylor Marshall recently posted a good Podcast discussing this topic in light of the document from the congregation.

taylormarshall.com/2015/12/99-should-catholics-share-the-gospel-with-jewish-friends-podcast.html

 

[Augustine_fan]

Well, your summary is even more succinct than Mr. Akin’s. You say that the Vatican document made a deliberate choice to communicate what it did, nuances and all. To me, it seems that it may have made a deliberate choice to muddy the waters without answering the questions that would inevitably arise.

I can hardly wait for the magisterial document on bees.

 

[commenter]

Well, your summary is even more succinct than Mr. Akin’s. You say that the Vatican document made a deliberate choice to communicate what it did, nuances and all. To me, it seems that it may have made a deliberate choice to muddy the waters without answering the questions that would inevitably arise.
**
I can hardly wait for the magisterial document on bees**.

It’s working title is “A Metaphysics of Beeing”

 

[Paganus]

I am unable to think of anything more anti-Semitic than to refuse to share the Truth with someone because they are a Jew.

To not provide them the opportunity to enter the Church and to receive the God of the Universe in Eucharistic form merely because they are Jewish?

That’s seems wicked to me. Especially since some of the very finest Catholics I know were converts from Judaism.

 

[commenter]

I am unable to think of anything more anti-Semitic than to refuse to share the Truth with someone because they are a Jew.

To not provide them the opportunity to enter the Church and to receive the God of the Universe in Eucharistic form merely because they are Jewish?

That’s seems wicked to me. Especially since some of the very finest Catholics I know were converts from Judaism.

It is troubling there seems to have been so little (name removed by moderator)ut from Jews who have converted to Catholicism. What are their perspectives on this topic? It is a kind of anti-semitism to exclude their views, and to say well, if Jews really feel the need it is ok for them to convert, but really Jewish individuals have less need of Christ than others; that their conversion to Christ is of little real consequence, a non-essential.

 

[CompSciGuy]

It is very pleasing to see so many Catholics posting here who get it. The Church does not and has never condemned evangelization of the Jewish people. To do so would be to go flatly against scripture. St. Paul would have been the worst saint of all if this were the case.

 

[CompSciGuy]

It is troubling there seems to have been so little (name removed by moderator)ut from Jews who have converted to Catholicism. What are their perspectives on this topic? It is a kind of anti-semitism to exclude their views, and to say well, if Jews really feel the need it is ok for them to convert, but really Jewish individuals have less need of Christ than others; that their conversion to Christ is of little real consequence, a non-essential.

Glad you asked. Look up the story of Sr. Rosalind Moss, also listen to David Moss’s story and his talk: “Why Jews deserve the gospel.” It used to be on Catholic Answers but I can’t find it anymore; you can find it on google.