Catholics VS Health Care in America: Morally Embarrassing

[MindOverMatter2]

The truth about ending the Pacific war with nuclear weapons is that it succeeded in saving lives not the other way around. Estimates of casualties in the planned invasion of Japan, based on a model derived from the Okinawa campaign, ranged from 500,000 to a million. Defeating the Japanese after such horrific loses would have made normalizing relations with the Japanese far more difficult and lengthy and may have prevented efforts by the allies to restore Japan’s economy. A death is a death…sadly what counts are the numbers not how they died. It is your opinion of Hiroshima that is knee jerk…dreaming.

You are morally deformed if you think for a moment that dropping an atomic or nuclear bomb on a civilisation is okay. Its a joke that your excuse is that it would have been more difficult! Is that why we drop bombs on people because we don’t want the difficulty of being humane?!! A death isn’t just a death, and what we are willing to do in-order to survive or maintain power will expose whether or not we have any real sense of humanity. There are just wars, and then there is genocide and murder.

If it was your family, you would not be feeding me that line of ****.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

Wars are indeed caused by greed and power but whose?

People came from Britain and proceeded to take what certainly did not belong to them (which is equally true in regards to Africa) ; its irrelevant what local disputes or wars were taking place.

Are you really that naive?

Who do you really serve?

 

[Al_Moritz]

It shows how far apart the country is, I said what I believe.

There are some glaring differences in what I said and what you twist. The republican party is not against general healthcare, helping the poor or against fairness in taxes.

Oh really? Doesn’t seem that way, does it.

But the one thing that cannot be disputed is that the democratic party is the party of abortion and the republican party is NOT the party of abortion. Millions of the most innocent of human lives are snuffed out because of those democrats that are married to their party.

You are living in a world of illusion and delusion.

1. Roe vs. Wade was decided under a Republican president by a Supreme Court with a majority of judges appointed by Republican presidents.
2. Millions of the most innocent of human lives are snuffed out because of the individual decisions mothers and fathers make by their own responsibility. These includes Republican voters.

 

[dmelosi]

Oh really? Doesn’t seem that way, does it.

You are living in a world of illusion and delusion.

1. Roe vs. Wade was decided under a Republican president by a Supreme Court with a majority of judges appointed by Republican presidents.
2. Millions of the most innocent of human lives are snuffed out because of the individual decisions mothers and fathers make by their own responsibility. These includes Republican voters.

Your 1) That doesn’t change the fact that the democratic party and those Catholics married to their party allow abortion to become accepted as something other than killing another human being.

 

[Al_Moritz]

Your 1) That doesn’t change the fact that the democratic party and those Catholics married to their party allow abortion to become accepted as something other than killing another human being.

Actually, Republicans did, see above.

 

[dmelosi]

Actually, Republicans did, see above.

Would you like for me to post the link again where Obama argued the infants born alive act? In case you don’t know what that is, Obama argued that if the original intent was to abort the human being, that if the abortion failed and the baby lived, that it is ok to withhold medical care from the baby so the baby would die.

Would you like the voting records of the politicians broken out by party line?

Would you like to see the party platform of each party?

Would you like the ruling records of the judges appointed by each party?

You are doing nothing but sticking your head in the sand if you think there is even a close comparison on who is the pro choice party.

 

[andrewstx]

So long as they are receiving the right health care. You seem to be under the impression that there is no link between those people dying and the lack of proper health-care.

When I went into ER for my stroke, I received some care. But the care did not include clot-busting drugs that would have ended the stroke. I was unconcious for an entire week, and they kicked me out of the hosp before I could walk or even think.

Sure no one is turned away, but I had to sign papers promising to pay. I was never able to work, but I still have that agreement hanging over my head.

 

[Al_Moritz]

You are doing nothing but sticking your head in the sand if you think there is even a close comparison on who is the pro choice party.

Obviously you don’t get my point, but that’s o.k. I am not particularly surprised.

 

[cyrusthegreat]

Just curious why you believe the U.S. were in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars?

Your question was not directed to me, and it’s a bit off subject, but I offer the following:

Iraq: Oil
Afghanistan: Pipeline

good read- Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia, by Ahmed Rashid

Realize countries like Costa Rica, having no army, navy or air force were offered a portion of the future spoils of war merely to be counted as among the “coalition of the willing”. I was in Costa Rica about that time, and the peace loving people of that country protested against their leadership involving them in the war. The country eventually withdrew their 50 person contribution.

Angola was another member of the “coalition of the willing”. Do a little research on Jonas
Savimbi leader of the UNITA party of Angola. Savimbi was a mass murderer. In 1986, Savimbi was received, at the White House, by president Ronald Reagan, who said, “Jonas Savimbi was the Abraham Lincoln of Angola”. The Reagan US Ambassador to the UN, Jean Kirkpatrick, described Savimbi as, “one of the authentic heroes of our time”.

War is a very dirty business.

 

[cyrusthegreat]

That is an incredibly arrogant statement. I do oppose Obamacare because I believe that it is bad for our country and its people. Obamacare or whatever you want to call it, is unsustainable. Look at Romney care in Mass.

I am all for health care reform. Health care costs have gotten out of hand. But legislators (the dems who pushed this legislation through without even reading it) never considered the real issues keeping health care unavailable to many.

Do not presume to tell me what I think about my fellow man. Do not infer that if I don’t follow the president I am uncaring. You don’t know me or others who sensibly oppose this very destructive piece of legislation

My statement was, “at the root of the political opposition”.

I am surprised to find someone conversing on this Catholic site to be listed among those “at the ROOT of the political opposition to national health care”. Such a list would surely include such names as Grover Norquist, Karl Rove, Paul Wolfowitz, Bill Kristol, Lewis Libby, Ann Coulter, William Bennett, Rush Limbaugh, Dick Cheney and many others. If you think the likes of Rush Limbaugh, who exceeds $50 million a year in salary and bonus, for spreading conservative propaganda, has one ounce of feeling for an unborn child… I’’ve got a bridge I’’ll sell ya. The hart of such people lies in their pocket book.

 

[dmelosi]

My statement was, “at the root of the political opposition”.

I am surprised to find someone conversing on this Catholic site to be listed among those “at the ROOT of the political opposition to national health care”. Such a list would surely include such names as Grover Norquist, Karl Rove, Paul Wolfowitz, Bill Kristol, Lewis Libby, Ann Coulter, William Bennett, Rush Limbaugh, Dick Cheney and many others. If you think the likes of Rush Limbaugh, who exceeds $50 million a year in salary and bonus, for spreading conservative propaganda, has one ounce of feeling for an unborn child… I’’ve got a bridge I’’ll sell ya. The hart of such people lies in their pocket book.

Did you listen to or watch Obama arguing the infants born alive act? Would you like for me to post the link again where Obama argued the infants born alive act? You claimed that was a lie, but watch or listen for yourself, you must have missed my earlier response to you. Obama argued that if the original intent was to abort the human being, that if the abortion failed and the baby lived, that it is ok to withhold medical care from the baby so the baby would die.

 

[someperson555]

How very untrue.
Freak out over condoms? I have not seen that.
No problem people dying because of lack of health care. Everyone I know or has talked to has a problem with that. Very silly statement.
Support the war? If it is a just war as the Church teaches, yes.
Support the death penalty? Only as the Catholic Church defines it.
I hate to generalize, but most of the democrats I see post and those democrats who are friends in real life have a couple things in common. They are married to their party because of selfish issues of their own. To ease their conscience, they usually make silly arguments on how to “cut down the number of abortions”.
If there was a way to do a poll on who gives time and treasure, I would bet that those Catholics who are in the category of belonging to a party because of what is in it for them, would give much much less than those Catholics that belong to a party because they really search and study to follow the Church’s teaching rather than let their own needs get in the way of understanding the true teaching. I believe there are some democrat Catholics that truly try to follow church teachings, but sadly I believe most are more in it for themselves.
Right or wrong, my view of those that are married to democratic party are those that want the government to do their “Christ” work. An example of how to explain that…John Kerry donates zero of his fortune to charity, yet claims that he is for the working class, and as in the news, Mitt Romney donates over 10% of his income to his church.

I cannot understand how any Catholic can call themselves a democrat unless they are truly trying to change their party’s strong pro abortion stance.

whatever gave you the idea that i support democrats? the democrats are also hyper-capitalists like the republicans. both parties are 2 heads of the same dragon. look at Obongo’s healthcare bill, it just benefits the corporations while it does nothing for the poor. it could just as well have been written by a republican. this is the insanity of democracy, it is not a rule by the people, rather it is a rule by plutocrats.

 

[dmelosi]

whatever gave you the idea that i support democrats? the democrats are also hyper-capitalists like the republicans. both parties are 2 heads of the same dragon. look at Obongo’s healthcare bill, it just benefits the corporations while it does nothing for the poor. it could just as well have been written by a republican. this is the insanity of democracy, it is not a rule by the people, rather it is a rule by plutocrats.

I never said you supported democrats, re read my response to your other comments.

What political system do you think is the best?

 

[someperson555]

Did you listen to or watch Obama arguing the infants born alive act? Would you like for me to post the link again where Obama argued the infants born alive act? You claimed that was a lie, but watch or listen for yourself, you must have missed my earlier response to you. Obama argued that if the original intent was to abort the human being, that if the abortion failed and the baby lived, that it is ok to withhold medical care from the baby so the baby would die.

well under the republicans, if the baby’s parents dont have good insurance then the baby will be allowed to die. thats so much better, right? republicans dont care about babies or children one bit, they just use abortion, gay marriage and other emotional issues to try and win over christians. sadly, many times their tactics work. we christians should see past their lies.

 

[cyrusthegreat]

You are morally deformed if you think for a moment that dropping an atomic or nuclear bomb on a civilisation is okay. Its a joke that your excuse is that it would have been more difficult! Is that why we drop bombs on people because we don’t want the difficulty of being humane?!! A death isn’t just a death, and what we are willing to do in-order to survive or maintain power will expose whether or not we have any real sense of humanity. There are just wars, and then there is genocide and murder.

If it was your family, you would not be feeding me that line of ****.

We have no right to judge that generation. You will never know how close you may have come to speaking Japanese. That generation had a legitimate reason to be afraid and they fought for their lives. It’s easy to judge them now, in our safety and comfort. War is a failure of humanity. There should be no glory in killing another human, but our people invaded Pacific island after Pacific island. There were invasions, where the first several waves may have had 95% causalities. I can assure you, at times like that one does not contemplate a more humane way to kill his enemy. He only wants to survive.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

We have no right to judge that generation. You will never know how close you may have come to speaking Japanese. That generation had a legitimate reason to be afraid and they fought for their lives. It’s easy to judge them now, in our safety and comfort. War is a failure of humanity. There should be no glory in killing another human, but our people invaded Pacific island after Pacific island. There were invasions, where the first several waves may have had 95% causalities. I can assure you, at times like that one does not contemplate a more humane way to kill his enemy. He only wants to survive.

Animals just want to survive.

 

[someperson555]

I never said you supported democrats, re read my response to your other comments.

What political system do you think is the best?

the best political system would be a national socialist one. (no i am NOT racist) basically what national socialism teaches, is that the economy and the state should be subservient to the people (the folk). i think it can be applied to a multi-ethnic society like the USA. you see, capitalism fails because it is based on self-interest, and communism fails because it is based on class conflict. national socialism is the best option because it places the common good before self interest, and it encourages class cooperation, not class conflict. but thats just my opinion.

 

[dmelosi]

well under the republicans, if the baby’s parents dont have good insurance then the baby will be allowed to die. thats so much better, right? republicans dont care about babies or children one bit, they just use abortion, gay marriage and other emotional issues to try and win over christians. sadly, many times their tactics work. we christians should see past their lies.

I have never seen nor ever heard nor ever have seen even once anything that republicans don’t care about babies or children one bit. Simply wrong.

What is sad is how the democrats so openly promote the killing of the most innocent.

And for the record as I have said in the past, I do believe that healthcare is something that the government should make sure that everyone has. But those arguing that anyone that disagrees with Obamacare is uncaring, is showing their allegiance to the democratic party, not to the Catholic Church

 

[dmelosi]

the best political system would be a national socialist one. (no i am NOT racist) basically what national socialism teaches, is that the economy and the state should be subservient to the people (the folk). i think it can be applied to a multi-ethnic society like the USA. you see, capitalism fails because it is based on self-interest, and communism fails because it is based on class conflict. national socialism is the best option because it places the common good before self interest, and it encourages class cooperation, not class conflict. but thats just my opinion.

Do you have an example of anywhere this has ever worked? Please watch this very short you tube on video on socialism vs capitalism.

youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

 

[someperson555]

Do you have an example of anywhere this has ever worked? Please watch this very short you tube on video on socialism vs capitalism.

youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

ah, milton friedman, the capitlists just love to use his straw-man arguments in defence of capitalism. that video was filled with errors and downright distortions of fact. first of all what friedman fails to realise is that communism is the same as capitalism, under both systems the means of production end up in the hands of a select few, under communiusm the state, while under capitalism a few monopolies control everything. (its no wonder the same people supported both systems) second, friedman blatantly admitted that capitalism is based on greed, it is incerdibly unethical to manipulate the system and multiply your wealth without mental or physical labour. ofcourse the politicians are no virtuos, but thats because the politicians work in collusion with the capitalists! and wow, i could say so much more, but here, read this, this is national socialist economics 101, one example of where this has worked was the third reich, Hitler eliminated unemployment, and the reich’s production grew 150% in 6 years. this is how a good economy should work:

aryanism.net/politics/economics/