Catholics VS Health Care in America: Morally Embarrassing

[dmelosi]

ah, milton friedman, the capitlists just love to use his straw-man arguments in defence of capitalism. that video was filled with errors and downright distortions of fact. first of all what friedman fails to realise is that communism is the same as capitalism, under both systems the means of production end up in the hands of a select few, under communiusm the state, while under capitalism a few monopolies control everything. (its no wonder the same people supported both systems) second, friedman blatantly admitted that capitalism is based on greed, it is incerdibly unethical to manipulate the system and multiply your wealth without mental or physical labour. ofcourse the politicians are no virtuos, but thats because the politicians work in collusion with the capitalists! and wow, i could say so much more, but here, read this, this is national socialist economics 101, it demolishes freidman’s argument. this is how a good economy should work:

aryanism.net/politics/economics/

When I opened the link, I saw the swastika, is this a nazi website?

The way you use blatantly admitted, shows your bias and refusal to think.

 

[someperson555]

When I opened the link, I saw the swastika, is this a nazi website?

The way you use blatantly admitted, shows your bias and refusal to think.

so you wont even listen to the other person’s argument? that is extremely ignorant. yes, it is “a nazi website”, but read what it has to say about economics. i think you could learn a few things. i think it is you who refuses to think, you wont even listen to a person’s point of view just because of his beliefs. but thats the way youve been programmed, “hurrr that guy has a different opinion than the mainstream therefore he must be wrong hurrr”. there are more than two sides to an issue. in the mean time consider this quote, i think it applies to you.
“look at what is said, not who said it”

 

[cyrusthegreat]

Animals just want to survive.

We are animals. What’s your point? The will to survive is also human.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

We are animals. What’s your point? The will to survive is also human.

An honest person with a real sense of humanity would understand my point. We are not just animals trying to survive and be powerful, the point of life isn’t simply to survive and have power, and in fact what we are willing to do for survival and power will determine whether you are a tyrant or a saint. The point of life is to become saints. War, and the weapons we use to fight wars is not always just, even if you are not the one who started it, and even if you will lose the war otherwise.

If I have to kill a child to win a war, I am not going to do it, and it would be wrong to do it. If I have to kill many civilians to win a war, I am not going to do it, and it would be wrong to do it. If I have to send people to blow themselves up and take many people to death with them, including civilians, to win a war, I am not going to do it, and it is wrong to do it. I am not willing to sell my soul for power and survival. This is a concept that many of our American brothers fail to grasp, even though they are Catholic. Dare I say they think a lot like animals? Not surprising, given that they have been systematically brainwashed by the system.

66000 people were killed at Hiroshima. Most of the dead were normal civilians, not the enemy. It is clearly not justified.

 

[cargau]

Hiroshima, native Americans, and many needless wars based on materialism and greed.

You’re living in a dream world.

I said that America is not perfect. Every generation of every society has sinned all the way back to the garden of Eden. Still. America’s generosity and the generosity of it’s people is unprecedented.

History will help us understand the nature of the “needless” wars. I do know that having been attacked on Sept 11th, a response was warranted and appropriate.

As for materialism and greed…I do acknowledge that there are individuals who possess and utilize power for personal gain. When people talk about oil being the source of greed, one should take into account the fact that oil is the lifeblood of the world’s economy. Imagine what would happen if all of the world’s oil were shut off tomorrow. It would drive nations into chaos, yes, maybe even wars.

Perhaps, one should consider giving world leaders a little bit of the benefit of the doubt. Maybe, just maybe they had insights in stabilizing a region, that if left unchecked, may have plunged the world into economic ruin.

Oh, and Hiroshima…You sit here as an armchair quarterback and take shots for hard decisions that had to be made for which there was no perceived positive outcome. Right or wrong, these leaders had the courage and skill to make the choices they felt best served their people knowing that one day they would be picked apart by someone who has nothing at stake. Just like Obama, apologizing to the world…

 

[MindOverMatter2]

As for materialism and greed…I do acknowledge that there are individuals who possess and utilize power for personal gain. When people talk about oil being the source of greed, one should take into account the fact that oil is the lifeblood of the world’s economy. Imagine what would happen if all of the world’s oil were shut off tomorrow. It would drive nations into chaos, yes, maybe even wars.

It does not justify war and theft. There are plenty of other measures that can replace fossil fuel, but nobody is going to make much profit from that are they. If you going support an indifferent form of capitalism, why be a hypocrite when you are on the losing end of it?

 

[MindOverMatter2]

Right or wrong, these leaders had the courage and skill to make the choices they felt best served their people

That’s the problem; they seem to think they only have a moral duty towards the lives of those living within their borders; and look at the way they treat some Americans!!

I understand you love America so much that you are willing to be an apologist for them, but I am not so naive as to not see the blatant draconian measures that America has taken to supposedly protect your generous way of life. I am not going to justify **evil.
**

 

[Al_Moritz]

Just like Obama, apologizing to the world…

Just that single sentence, factually inaccurate, betrays how much you and your Neo-Con Catholic brethren are brain-washed by right-wing commentators and politicians.

 

[pismopal]

the USA dropped those bombs AFTER the Japanese surrendered. the USA was also the one who provoked the Japs to attack pearl harbor. but you dont hear that part of history in school. also the allies who were the supposed “liberators” raped, pillaged, and tortured innocent German and Japanese civillians.

The reason you don’t hear “that part of history in school” is because it is not history at all. Your version of the use of atomic weapons after Japan’s surrender is simply bizare.
Our oil embargo of Japan was provocative but you might say that Japan’s attack on China and the brutal treatment of her civilians was beyond provocative.
The use of the term “Jap” is disrespectful and as outmoded as …“Injuns”.
You are correct but you probably don’t know why. The Red army was the Soviet Union’s addition to the “Allies” . The Red army raped and pillaged and to a lesser extent murdered, German women on an epic scale. The German army did the same in Soviet territory with an emphasis on murder.
Japanese citizens were not abused or tortured or raped by the forces of the US. The individuals who commited crimes against Japanese citizens were punished. just as they are in the United States.
If you are going to continue to repeat the lie that Japan had surrendered before the use of atomic weapons, you should submit a credible source for this theory.

 

[dmelosi]

The reason you don’t hear “that part of history in school” is because it is not history at all. Your version of the use of atomic weapons after Japan’s surrender is simply bizare.
Our oil embargo of Japan was provocative but you might say that Japan’s attack on China and the brutal treatment of her civilians was beyond provocative.
The use of the term “Jap” is disrespectful and as outmoded as …“Injuns”.
You are correct but you probably don’t know why. The Red army was the Soviet Union’s addition to the “Allies” . The Red army raped and pillaged and to a lesser extent murdered, German women on an epic scale. The German army did the same in Soviet territory with an emphasis on murder.
Japanese citizens were not abused or tortured or raped by the forces of the US. The individuals who commited crimes against Japanese citizens were punished. just as they are in the United States.
If you are going to continue to repeat the lie that Japan had surrendered before the use of atomic weapons, you should submit a credible source for this theory.

Did you look at one of his sources? It is a nazi link he provided.

 

[pismopal]

You are morally deformed if you think for a moment that dropping an atomic or nuclear bomb on a civilisation is okay. Its a joke that your excuse is that it would have been more difficult! Is that why we drop bombs on people because we don’t want the difficulty of being humane?!! A death isn’t just a death, and what we are willing to do in-order to survive or maintain power will expose whether or not we have any real sense of humanity. There are just wars, and then there is genocide and murder.

If it was your family, you would not be feeding me that line of ****.

The forces of the Empire of Japan waged aggressive and brutal war against any country with resources they wanted. They raped tortured and murdered innocent civilians and treated pows worse than animals. If you don’t think we have a right to defend ourselves by using any force at our disposal…you are the morally deformed and self righteous in the bargain. I am going to tell you that your position is the kind of silly stuff I heard discussed in junior college 40 years ago and it is no more valuable now than it was then.

 

[pismopal]

Did you look at one of his sources? It is a nazi link he provided.

Very revealing…

 

[MindOverMatter2]

If you don’t think we have a right to defend ourselves

That’s a red-herring and a straw-man of a just war. That we have a right to defend our selves is irrelevant and besides the point when determining the moral nature of what occurred at Hiroshima. That we have a right to defend our selves does not mean that we can use any method of war at our disposal.

You are just ignoring the facts to save face for America. Why? It is because you are an American apologist first and foremost, and you are quite happy to buy into any American propaganda so long as they protect your way of life, bottom line.

 

[Al_Moritz]

That’s a red-herring and a straw-man of a just war. That we have a right to defend our selves is irrelevant and besides the point when determining the moral nature of what occurred at Hiroshima. That we have a right to defend our selves does not mean that we can use any method of war at our disposal.

To say the very least, we could easily have dropped the bomb first in a relatively uninhabited area (e.g. off-coast) as a warning, and then go from there. To go all out in a surprise attack on a population center was morally utmost questionable – or even indefensible.

 

[pismopal]

That’s a red-herring and a straw-man of a just war. That we have a right to defend our selves is irrelevant and besides the point when determining the moral nature of what occurred at Hiroshima. That we have a right to defend our selves does not mean that we can use any method of war at our disposal.

You are just ignoring the facts to save face for America. Why? It is because you are an American apologist first and foremost, and you are quite happy to buy into any American propaganda so long as they protect your way of life, bottom line.

It is neither a “red herring” or “straw man” but it is a pointless discussion. I know people who would not defend themselves from an attack…simply because they do not have the will to do so. They are neither cowards or heroes…they just don’t have the disposition or the will. Stop making yourself into a morally superior person simply because you love to make outrageous assertions and then try to defend them.
As I said before , this is a junior college discussion that is pointless and solves nothing. We have nuclear weapons that could be used and presumably would be used in order to defend ourselves. That is the reality whether you like it or not. Have a nice day!

 

[MindOverMatter2]

It is neither a “red herring” or “straw man” but it is a pointless discussion.

Its pointless to you because you can’t defend yourself logically, so you would rather beg the question or imply that you are right with out giving a proper defence. You gave no valid argument for the idea that what happened in Hiroshima is morally in line with your right to self defence. You just asserted it. Yet it is evident to any reasonable person that not all acts of self-defence are necessarily moral. There is no necessary connection between the right to self defence and the guarantee that all actions made in self defence are moral actions. Your intentions are merely to mislead, not reason.

I know people who would not defend themselves from an attack…simply because they do not have the will to do so. They are neither cowards or heroes…they just don’t have the disposition or the will.

That is irrelevant to this discussion. Classic misdirection.

Stop making yourself into a morally superior person simply because you love to make outrageous assertions and then try to defend them.

I haven’t made any assertions; I have given only facts that you refuse to acknowledge. You are either dishonest or incapable of distinguishing between a moral act and an immoral one. There is no morally justifiable reason for what happened at Hiroshima and the excuses you have given are absolutely ridiculous and displays a lack of intelligence and moral discernment. You don’t seem to understand why killing a large number of civilians in-order to win a war is wrong. But to you they are just collateral damage and are dispensable in so far as your way of life is concerned. In your brainwashed mind, America is a good and holy force in the world, and everyone else that speaks to the contrary is either a terrorist or a liar.

As I said before , this is a junior college discussion that is pointless and solves nothing.

For you perhaps, But what you have to say on the matter is now irrelevant, since I see no point in having a discussion with somebody who thinks that nuclear war is a moral act.

 

[Al_Moritz]

In your brainwashed mind, America is a good and holy force in the world, and everyone else that speaks to the contrary is either a terrorist or a liar.

Or “unpatriotic” – the buzzword with which the Neo-Cons tricked America into agreeing to all kinds of questionable practices after 9/11.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

I enjoy this scripture, and I agree with its truth. But it would be foolish to interpret this as meaning that we cannot make moral judgements in either a general or philosophical discussion. And neither does it mean that the judge is wrong to judge or point out when somebody is doing something immoral. Such is our absolute moral duty to do so. But rather the scripture you have quoted is intended as a reminder to all judges to stay true to their faith, and not to be blinded by the idea that you are better-off than the people you judge. It means that you must live by the same measure by which you morally judge or risk being a hypocrite.

Of course we all risk being hypocrites every-time we sin; but that does not change the fact that we must judge.

But of course I am sure you already knew that.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

The lows to which people will stoop in-order to justify immorality.

 

[cyrusthegreat]

the USA dropped those bombs AFTER the Japanese surrendered. the USA was also the one who provoked the Japs to attack pearl harbor. but you dont hear that part of history in school. also the allies who were the supposed “liberators” raped, pillaged, and tortured innocent German and Japanese civillians.

I am a “yellow dog” democrat, as liberal as they come, but you are attempting to rewrite history. If you are going to suggest something this outrageous, you should be able to back it up.