Catholics, what do you do with 1 John 5? It contradicts RCC doctrine concerning the assurance of salvation. See for yourself.

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guanophore said:
You are right. Natural man has an inherent resentment against authority. there is a rebellion against God, and those appointed by God. It is clear all through the Scriptures. Jesus gave His authority to the Apostles. They passed this to their successors. There have always been people in rebellion against this authority.

John 17:21-26
22 The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23 I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me. 24 Father, I desire that they also, whom thou hast given me, may be with me where I am, to behold my glory which thou hast given me in thy love for me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father, the world has not known thee, but I have known thee; and these know that thou hast sent me. 26 I made known to them thy name, and I will make it known, that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them."

Jesus shares His glory with His Bride, the Church. He is glorified in the unity that exists in the Church. Unity is found in adherance to the Truth.

The lack of unity in the Body results from difficulty discerning the Truth.

This is one of the most serious errors emanating from Sola Scriptura. Individuals who read the scripture (or anything, for that matter), interpret what they read. The information goes through the filters of the persons’ heart, mind, and soul. Most people believe that they are enlightened by the HS, and that this means how they understand what they read is revealed to them by God. They don’t realize that their own experiences and knowledge (or lack of it) affects how they understand what they read.

Your beliefs are as much influenced by yourself as they are what you have read.

1 Cor 14:32
32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets.

What a person believes is subject to the person themselves. The individual is in control, not the Scripture.

Many people do, however, you are in the Apologetics section. this is the area where we answer questions about the Catholic faith. We believe we are born again in baptism, and that being born is the beginning. Most of the emphasis of the Catholic life is on working out our salvation with fear and trembling. Being born again is elementary, or “milk”. Most of what you encounter in this area is “meat”. 😃

You are right. If that were true, every time we got in and out of a pool of water or a tub we would be born again! 😃

However, baptism is much more than just dipping in water.

This is what the candidate does in baptism. I scripture, it is called professing the faith, and “calling upon His name”. It is when this profession of faith is made, and we call upon His name as the “dipping” occurs that grace from God meets faith, and we are born again by water, and Spirit.

I am glad that you had this spiritual awakening jp. It is becoming more clear that you have been strongly influenced by Protestant theology, and that explains why your posts do not reflect Catholic teaching.
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hey guano, so i dont know much about catholic teaching. what i do know is god, jesus, personally. ive met him. no one is the same when they meet the creatorof heaven and earth. he revealed himself to me. isnt hat much better than knowing catholic teaching?
 
guanophore said:
Did you think someone was trying to do this?

Not everyone has the personal experience you have, jp. It is true that people ask for baptism, and receive it, but not everyone has a “road to Damascus” experience. We believe by faith that God does what He said He would do.

It seems like you are focusing on a transforming “born again” experience like the one you have had. For Catholics, this is elementary, and a starting point. In order to mature, at some point you will have to be willing to leave these elementary things behind and press on to the higher knowledge, like how to Love.

This seems quite duplicitious, jp. Why choose a popular Catholic username, and promote yourself in your public profile as catholic, when you rejoice in ignorance?

How dies it honor God in any way for you to be ignorant of the Church founded by Christ?
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hey guano, like i said, i know christ personally, and it dont bother him one bit that i dont know catholic stuff.
 
guanophore said:
The fact that you are my brother in Christ does not make it loving to confirm you in error. :o

I find duplicity troubling, yes.

You have come to a Catholic forum, with clear anti-catholic bias.
You appear to be promoting your conception of evangelism, and it seems that you are invested in making converts of Catholics, so that we may become “bible christians” as you seem to see yourself.
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no guano, ill check myself if i start to sound like im preaching. i speak what i learned from the Father, the one who you also look to. being upset with me is missing the point.im just a slave. if you dont like my message, well, take it up with my boss. anyway, jesus said…no man is above his master. if they hate me, they will hate you.
 
Bejohn said:
Jp
your quote about dipping in water does not make you Christian makes as much sense to me as a person vacinating a child who does not understand how the vacine works does not make the child vacinated. Because we do not understand the working of things does not mean tht they will nor or do not work.
I am wondering where you stand with God in your mind. Are you angry, don’t care/ not interested, or passionately in love?
The only one we need worry about is the middle condition for Jesus says they are the ones He spits from His Mouth.
Are you here to learn about God or are you here to show us how much wisdom and knowledge you have as a debator?

These questions can remain rhetorical if you like.
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hey bejohn, ill tell you the same thing i told guano, i dont have to worry about understanding god…i know the man
 
twb1621 said:
Why do you claim you are Catholic and why did you not respond to my posts? I offered to discuss all this in a thread specific to your issues yet you don’t respond… according to the Bible a true Christian practices Charity and Humility. You seem to be lacking in both these traits… are you interested in learning more than you believe you know in God?
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hey friend, sometimes i dont see all the answers. yes, a thread specific for this, capital idea. im taking my computer tomorrow to get fixed. or rather for this guy i know to put an operating system in it that is real enough to keep bill gates from shutting me off every 30 days. let me know what the name of the thread is and how to find it. you might be kinda rite about my humility, but my charity is giant. im in here offering myself and my experience, for free.
 
The RCC says we can’t know that we have eternal life at any point before we die, nor will we actually have eternal life until some time after we die.

Where did you ever get this idea?
 
1holycatholic said:
Where does the Catholic Church state this?

vatican.va/phome_en.htm
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I would ask the poster to answer this also.
I do not appreciate the original posters arrogance giving rules about how to answer the post. If you have stipulations about how your post should be answered make sure you have facts to back up your incorrect assumptions.
Typical long winded babble.
 
Mike_Dye said:
I would ask the poster to answer this also.
I do not appreciate the original posters arrogance giving rules about how to answer the post. If you have stipulations about how your post should be answered make sure you have facts to back up your incorrect assumptions.
Typical long winded babble.
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Completely agree.👍
 
johnpaul87 said:
hi always, yes ive heard that train of thought befor. hundreds of times. im sorry always, dipping in water doesnt make you born again you have to ask jesus to have you born again. you will be a different person.
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Wrong. Nowhere in the Bible does it state that the how of being “born again” is to ask Jesus to have you born again.".

Jesus said you must be born “of water and spirit”. He is very specific about that. This is baptism.

Read up on what Baptism means so that you will learn how to be really “born again”. The ritual that protestants go to do not make them born again because this is not according to Christ’s prescription.
. you cant ask just because i asked you to. god wont do it unless you want it.
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Wrong again. Paul was “born again” even though He did not want it at first. Remember his road to Damascus experience? He was very far from wanting to be baptized when Christ appeared to him.
ask him to reveal himself to you. i met him. not in flesh, but in mind and spirit. he showed me that it was him.i asked for things, and he did them. the craziest things, and he did them to show me that we were now friends. the new christian gets that kind of stuff because he wants to let you know that you are saved and can come to him. once yopuve been saved for a whiile, the miricles taper off.but all the promises in the bible i can stand on and he makes good those promises. try it. youll like it
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Petal, that is your own interpretation. That is not what the Bible teaches. Before ascending Jesus said to His disciples :

Matthew 28: 19-20
Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age."

And that last bit in blue is Christ’s promise to His Church.
 
johnpaul87 said:
hi brother bastoune, you cant rationalize away being born again. if one is born again, he knows it, mainly because he or she asked for it and got it. if one is not born again, one theorizes and blows smoke and mirrors about it.either one is born again or one is not. and you have to be born again to enter into heaven…jesus
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I asked this in another thread.

Let us look at Jimmy Swaggart. Would you say that he was “born again”? Yet look at what happened,. he committed adultery again and again.

So, was he born again really? I am sure he was convinced that he was “born again”.
 
johnpaul87 said:
hey mbris, superb line of reasoning. you hit one of the main points of the plan of salvation. if you dont understand the bible, how do you get saved. 99.99% of the people in here claim to have a working knowledge of the scriptures.but the main point of the new test goes un noticed.you ask questions that you should be able to answer. think for just one second. did ayone in the new test or old test become saved by reading the bible? jesus and paul and the others had to proclaim the good news.
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Voila! Yes, the good news had to be proclaimed and it was and is the Catholic Church who proclaimed this good news.
the jews had the tora for ever. they had holy men galore. they went to church religiously. but they didnt know god.
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Now you are terribly stupid and ignorant by saying this. The Jews did not know God? Helloooo, the Jews are God’s chosen people. God chose them. God revealed Himself to them through the prophets and through the law. The OT came from the Jews!!!
cant you people see?
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You are the one who can’t see.

god sent messengers to proclaim the kingdom.you people in here have someone who is crying in the wilderness.god sends you one of his to tell you how to get saved.
And the messengers
thats how you get saved.
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NO IT IS NOT!!!
then you qwill understand the bible.
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We do. You don’t.
god had to come down here on earth to show men what they must do to be saved. jesus preached repent and be ye saved. also be born again. that was his whole ministry
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No. Jesus did not say you must be “born again” to be saved. It was Nicodemus who said “born again” because he misunderstood Jesus but Jesus meant “from above”.

Here is an explanation from the NAB.
Born: see the note on John 1:13. From above: the Greek adverb anothen means both “from above” and “again.” Jesus means “from above” (see John 3:31) but Nicodemus misunderstands it as “again.” This misunderstanding serves as a springboard for further instruction.

Your post did not answer mbrislawn’s point

So re-read his post and reply according to the point he raised.

Here is his post again.
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mbrislawn:
I thought the reason for the Gideon bibles in all the motel rooms is so an unsaved person could find it and read it and get saved.

But if he is unsaved to begin with he is unable to understand it, and hence unable to get saved by reading it!

A Catch-22 seems to be built into JP87’s quote above.
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And this was in reply to your post where you said that to understand the Bible you need to be saved. But how can you be saved if you do not understand the Bible.

To put it in simple terms it is like when people ask you for experience so they will give you a job but how can you get experience if they will not give you a job.

As mbrislawn said, your post is a Catch22.
 
johnpaul87 said:
hey guano, so i dont know much about catholic teaching. what i do know is god, jesus, personally. ive met him. no one is the same when they meet the creatorof heaven and earth. he revealed himself to me. isnt hat much better than knowing catholic teaching?
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If you have truly met the Lord then you would know His Church. But I do think you have been acquainted that is why He has led you to this forum so that you will come to truly know Him.

Have a read of this link.

[catholic-convert.com/Portals/0/Story%20Patty%20Bonds.pdf](http://www.catholic-convert.com/Portals/0/Story Patty Bonds.pdf)
 
johnpaul87 said:
hey guano, like i said, i know christ personally, and it dont bother him one bit that i dont know catholic stuff.
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My you are presumptous. How do you know that it doesn’t bother Him one bit.

He built the Catholic Church so that all people will become her member. That is His plan of salvation. So far you have dilly dallied in joining the Church he has established.

Acts 2: 46- 47 "Every day they devoted themselves to meeting together in the temple area and to breaking bread in their homes. They ate their meals with exultation and sincerity of heart, praising God and enjoying favor with all the people. **And every day the Lord added **to their number those who were being saved.

Those who were being saved were being added to the Catholic Church.

So have you been added? If your answer is no then I think you better start the ball rolling.🙂
 
johnpaul87 said:
no guano, ill check myself if i start to sound like im preaching. i speak what i learned from the Father, the one who you also look to. being upset with me is missing the point.im just a slave. if you dont like my message, well, take it up with my boss. anyway, jesus said…no man is above his master. if they hate me, they will hate you.
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Hey, JP87, Guano said she dislikes duplicity. Now why would she think that. Could that be because you may be lying in your profile that you are Catholic. Because if you are, then I am probably the Queen of England.

Now if you are lying (and it really seems to us you are) then that means the Father you speak of is the devil, because according to Jesus Himself, the devil is the Father of lies.
 
johnpaul87 said:
hey bejohn, ill tell you the same thing i told guano, i dont have to worry about understanding god…i know the man
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Well as I have said in the previous post, if you are lying in your profile by claiming to be Catholic then you you don’t know God but you are probably in speaking terms with the father of lies.
 
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