Catholics, what do you do with 1 John 5? It contradicts RCC doctrine concerning the assurance of salvation. See for yourself.

[twb1621]

hey bejohn, ill tell you the same thing i told guano, i dont have to worry about understanding god…i know the man

If you met him and you knew Him, you definitely would NOT be calling Him “the man”.
Your reverence to Him would be without limits and your awe would render you speechless. Now those deceived by the father of this world may look upon what they believe with such little reverence, no doubt. But then Satan is not stupid and many have been deceived and misguided by him.

 

[twb1621]

hey friend, sometimes i dont see all the answers. yes, a thread specific for this, capital idea. im taking my computer tomorrow to get fixed. or rather for this guy i know to put an operating system in it that is real enough to keep bill gates from shutting me off every 30 days. let me know what the name of the thread is and how to find it. you might be kinda rite about my humility, but my charity is giant. im in here offering myself and my experience, for free.

For everyone who cares to participate, this thread is created in regard to jp87’s position on the Blessing of being “Born Again” in Christ but is for all who wish to share their views credibly… Let us hope we can all discuss this in the light of our Savior. You included JP87….

jp87, we are also here offering ourselves and our experience, for free. Therefore we have something in common to start with. But you still haven’t answered the question why you claim to be Catholic in your personal information…

If you met him and you knew Him, you definitely would NOT be calling Him “the man”.
Your reverence to Him would be without limits and your awe would render you speechless. Now those deceived by the father of this world may look upon what they believe with such little reverence, no doubt. But then Satan is not stupid and many have been deceived and misguided by him.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=315416

 

[acw]

We are still waiting for you to show us where the Catholic Church teaches what you claim. I gave you a link. It has a search function.

You don’t have anything, do you?

a bit strong and challenging?
acw

 

[1holycatholic]

a bit strong and challenging?
acw

Mine was post #18 and yours is #839. :coffeeread:

It’s clear is that mmmcounts doesn’t have anything to offer but straw-men.

 

[jake23]

hey guano, so i dont know much about catholic teaching. what i do know is god, jesus, personally. ive met him. no one is the same when they meet the creatorof heaven and earth. he revealed himself to me. isnt hat much better than knowing catholic teaching?

Lol! I new jp was being dishonest when caliming he was catholic! This shows you are not to be trusted since you lie! The wholr milk to meat thing really gave it away! Ilearned this too back when I was protestant. Yes the thoery and quotes can be insperational for spiritual maturity but I learned in my studies at liberty university to become a protestant minister that protestant interpretation of the bible was skewed and not relevant to the original texts and there meanings, however the catholic church was right on with the original text. History shows also it is the first church and wrote the bible. So if you want to move on from the milk and mature to the meat then practice the catholic faith!

 

[SHW]

Hi johnpaul87

I started a new thread called "What does it mean to “abide in Christ”

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=315451

It is a good test to see if persons are “abiding in Christ” (or are “in Christ”) right now at this very moment and what they must do, until they die, if they want to inherit eternal life.

Pax,
SHW

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

Hi johnpaul87

I started a new thread called "What does it mean to “abide in Christ”

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=315451

It is a good test to see if persons are “abiding in Christ” (or are “in Christ”) right now at this very moment and what they must do, until they die, if they want to inherit eternal life.

Pax,
SHW

I think we are arguing with a troll as this is “her” first post:

hey all. found this site in a church flyer. just seeing what is going on. my name here is johnpaul but im a female

Read all “her” posts and you get a sense of the person behind the posts.

 

[SHW]

I think we are arguing with a troll as this is “her” first post: Read all “her” posts and you get a sense of the person behind the posts.

Yes, please do read them. You will find out that it is not my “first” post. You can start with #719 in this thread.

Also, I am “trolling” for fish (souls) for Christ.

Pax,
SHW

 

[SHW]

I think we are arguing with a troll as this is “her” first post:

hey all. found this site in a church flyer. just seeing what is going on. my name here is johnpaul but im a female

Hi Earnest Bunbury,

Please explain what a troll is. I have thought up too many possibilities. Is it a person who is not serious about learning and living the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Pax,
SHW

 

[Dchsknight]

Hi Earnest Bunbury,

Please explain what a troll is. I have thought up too many possibilities. Is it a person who is not serious about learning and living the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Pax,
SHW

A troll is some one who does one of these things.

Purposely comes onto a Thread and tries to derail it by spouting off wrong info and getting us off topic.

Purposely tries to pick fights on a thread that has no grounds what so ever.

Is completely Ignorant of what they claim and tries to put of the air that they are right and just and know better then everyone else.

also a troll is a mean green skinned monster that lives under bridges and tries to eat goats as they pass over.

 

[blackst]

I’ll start by saying I’m somewhat familiar with the “Warnings Against Private Interpretations.” Let’s deal with that upfront, shall we? Here’s that passage.

First, it tells you to pay attention to the word of the prophets. So pay attention to it! Second, I am not a prophet. I have never made any prophecies of Scripture. And I never will. So when you refer to a verse that says “No prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation,” it can’t be talking about me. I’m not a prophet. It can’t be talking about anything that came from me. I make no prophecy of Scripture or any other kind. However, what follows does include some prophecy that John contributed to Scripture as he was carried along by the Holy Spirit, and you will do well to pay attention to it.

The RCC says we can’t know that we have eternal life at any point before we die, nor will we actually have eternal life until some time after we die. Yet John writes these things about God’s testimony that we have eternal life, and he tells us he writes these things so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Remember that RCC doctrine is man’s testimony and 1 John is God’s testimony. Now refer to verse 9 (the one in magenta). “We accept man’s testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son.” I would strongly advise against denying God’s testimony so that you can continue affirming man’s testimony. That doesn’t seem very sound. Instead, follow the example of the Bereans. When Paul was with them, they examined the Scriptures every day to see if what he said was true. They were praised for this. If the Bereans were praised for doing this when an apostle was physically present and talking right to them, you should definitely submit “apostolic tradition” to the authority of Scripture in the same way. Examine the Scriptures to see if what it says is true.

It should go without saying that I do not welcome protests about “private interpretation.” The contents of 1 John are not the result of private interpretation. Its origin is in a man named John who spoke from God, and you will do well to pay attention to it. Deal with what is found there. That’s twice now that I’ve addressed the issue, so if you truly think I want to make it three, whatever is wrong with you is no small thing.

If you plan on posting on this thread, plan on answering that question. If you can’t figure out what to do with the passage, don’t post. Go away. If you do post, try to stay on topic.

The Whole letter must be read, it say’s that to be a child of God you can not sin, No one who is a child of God sins, take all the letter, not just a portion. It also says to obey jesus is to obey the commands, just believing is not enough, you must also do the will of God, There is such a thing as enabling, where you do harm instead of good by preventing the growth of an individual.

 

[distracted]

hi dis, hey i heard they did away with the confession booth. none in my church. id speculate why, but the thought control police might get me. so i do what He said to do then i get to heaven. you are one of the first people to give me a definit plan for salvation. most advice is…read this, study that, sign up for this, join that.

wow… they took the confessional out of your Church??? That’s bizarre… Nobody at my Church ever USES the confessional (except @ Christmas/Easter maybe) but at least its still there… (I think when its not Christmas or Easter, its used for a broom closet )…

Why am i laughing… its really not all that funny, is it??

anyway… thanks for the compliment… I don’t get many of them here @ CAF, as you may know…

…a definite plan of salvation…

yes, doing everything Jesus said is definitely that… I think a lot of non-Catholics think that we Catholics have absolutely NO assurance of salvation… but at least we have assurance of Purgatory (which IS salvation…) as long as we do all Jesus said… which involves being a member of His Church. You are a member of the Church, aren’t you?

I mean, it doesn’t say that, verbatim, in the Bible… so lots of Protestants disagree with it… but it is rather implied there… in my opinion. In any case, Jesus never wrote a book… He established a Church (St. Mt 16:18, etc)… and preached and told his apostles to preach… and baptize…

Anyway… God bless…

 

[paul_c]

The RCC says we can’t know that we have eternal life at any point before we die, nor will we actually have eternal life until some time after we die. Yet John writes these things about God’s testimony that we have eternal life, and he tells us he writes these things so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Remember that RCC doctrine is man’s testimony and 1 John is God’s testimony. Now refer to verse 9 (the one in magenta). “We accept man’s testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son.” I would strongly advise against denying God’s testimony so that you can continue affirming man’s testimony. That doesn’t seem very sound. Instead, follow the example of the Bereans. When Paul was with them, they examined the Scriptures every day to see if what he said was true. They were praised for this. If the Bereans were praised for doing this when an apostle was physically present and talking right to them, you should definitely submit “apostolic tradition” to the authority of Scripture in the same way. Examine the Scriptures to see if what it says is true.

It should go without saying that I do not welcome protests about “private interpretation.” The contents of 1 John are not the result of private interpretation. Its origin is in a man named John who spoke from God, and you will do well to pay attention to it. Deal with what is found there. That’s twice now that I’ve addressed the issue, so if you truly think I want to make it three, whatever is wrong with you is no small thing.

If you plan on posting on this thread, plan on answering that question. If you can’t figure out what to do with the passage, don’t post. Go away. If you do post, try to stay on topic.

Going back a month, it still strikes me how you separate out the Bible as God;s word from the Church that actually put it in writing. For you the written word has precedent over the spoken word of the same individual and you don’t value the tradition that went with the written word to interpret it.

Let me put this in the context of my real world experience. I am an engineer in a major technology company. We invent things that ultimately get patented and then we sell the intellectual property rights to use those patents to others. However, no one can really use the patents as written to do what they need to do. We then give workshops to explain how to put those patents into practical use. The same thing extends to the Bible. You need to understand the tradition behind the words to really put them to practical use.

Take to Heart St. Peter’s warning as he ends his second epistle (2Peter 3: 15-18):
And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you, speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures. Therefore, beloved, since you are forewarned, be on your guard not to be led into the error of the unprincipled and to fall from your own stability. But grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory now and to the day of eternity. (Amen.)

 

[mbrislawn]

hey mbris, superb line of reasoning. you hit one of the main points of the plan of salvation. if you dont understand the bible, how do you get saved. 99.99% of the people in here claim to have a working knowledge of the scriptures.but the main point of the new test goes un noticed.you ask questions that you should be able to answer. think for just one second. did ayone in the new test or old test become saved by reading the bible? jesus and paul and the others had to proclaim the good news. the jews had the tora for ever. they had holy men galore. they went to church religiously. but they didnt know god. cant you people see? god sent messengers to proclaim the kingdom.you people in here have someone who is crying in the wilderness.god sends you one of his to tell you how to get saved. thats how you get saved. then you qwill understand the bible. god had to come down here on earth to show men what they must do to be saved. jesus preached repent and be ye saved. also be born again. that was his whole ministry

What you say is absolutely right. Did anyone in the New Testament or Old Testament get saved by reading the bible? No, messengers had to proclaim the kingdom, the good news. Indeed, scripture itself says that faith comes from hearing, not from reading. Faith comes from hearing the messengers sent by God.

However, the Reformation principle is that we get our saving faith from reading. “A ploughboy with a bible in his hand is equal to the pope in Rome.” All you need then, is the bible, nothing else, to get saved. Therein lies the conundrum. The bible provides the way to salvation, but unless you are already saved, you can’t read and understand the bible!

 

[mbrislawn]

hi always, yes ive heard that train of thought befor. hundreds of times. im sorry always, dipping in water doesnt make you born again. you have to ask jesus to have you born again. you will be a different person.

Again, I agree 100 percent with jp87. Simply dipping you in water doesn’t make you be born again. You do have to ask Jesus to have you born again.

So, how do you ask Jesus to have you born again? The Bible tells us, and gives definite directions on the way Jesus wants us to ask him. Not just any old way, but Jesus’ way. This way is described in 1 Peter 3:20,21, “…eight persons were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience.”

When you are dipped into the waters of Baptism, you are not doing it to wash dirt off. Ordinarily when you bathe, you do it to wash dirt off, because water by its nature has that power.

In baptism, however, you do it to wash your conscience. Scripture explicitly states that baptism is itself the appeal, the prayer to God, to have your conscience washed.

So, baptism is the way Jesus wants you to ask Him to have you born from above.

And how do you know your prayer, your appeal, will be answered? Peter goes on to say, “…through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him.” Jesus’ resurrection proves he can and will give the waters of baptism the power to clean your conscience, and you will be born from above. (Of course, when you are born from above, you are also born again!)

And it is true, when you are born again, you are a different person. Not only that, but a new person, a new creature.

 

[guanophore]

hey guano, so i dont know much about catholic teaching. what i do know is god, jesus, personally. ive met him. no one is the same when they meet the creatorof heaven and earth. he revealed himself to me. isnt hat much better than knowing catholic teaching?

They are one and the same. It was the Catholic Church that has enabled you to meet Jesus.

If you are willing, you can now use this opportunity to learn more about what Jesus taught the Apostles.

if you want to approach this honestly, you might begin my addressing the misleading information in your profile.

hey guano, like i said, i know christ personally, and it dont bother him one bit that i dont know catholic stuff.

What makes you so sure?

What brings you here otherwise?

no guano, ill check myself if i start to sound like im preaching. i speak what i learned from the Father, the one who you also look to. being upset with me is missing the point.im just a slave. if you dont like my message, well, take it up with my boss. anyway, jesus said…no man is above his master. if they hate me, they will hate you.

I did not say I was upset with you. I said that duplicity is disturbing. I don’t know you well enough to hate you. I am trying to advise you that CAF is not a venue for you to evangelize.

you might be kinda rite about my humility, but my charity is giant. im in here offering myself and my experience, for free.

I appreciate your generosity. However, CAF is not a venue for you to pander your anticatholicism. We are here to answer sincere questions about the Catholic faith.

hey 1holy, you busted me, im a mormon. how did you figure it out? what gave me away?

I don’t know if this is true or not, but the anti-catholic sentiments, duplicity/deceptive approach, and referring to Jesus as “a man” is certainly grounds for suspicion.

 

[Dchsknight]

Be Careful, John Paul Mormonism is a Cult and straight from the hand of the Devil.

 

[SHW]

Again, I agree 100 percent with jp87. Simply dipping you in water doesn’t make you be born again. You do have to ask Jesus to have you born again.

So, how do you ask Jesus to have you born again? The Bible tells us, and gives definite directions on the way Jesus wants us to ask him. Not just any old way, but Jesus’ way. This way is described in 1 Peter 3:20,21, “…eight persons were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience.”

When you are dipped into the waters of Baptism, you are not doing it to wash dirt off. Ordinarily when you bathe, you do it to wash dirt off, because water by its nature has that power.

In baptism, however, you do it to wash your conscience. Scripture explicitly states that baptism is itself the appeal, the prayer to God, to have your conscience washed.

So, baptism is the way Jesus wants you to ask Him to have you born from above.

And how do you know your prayer, your appeal, will be answered? Peter goes on to say, “…through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him.” Jesus’ resurrection proves he can and will give the waters of baptism the power to clean your conscience, and you will be born from above. (Of course, when you are born from above, you are also born again!)

And it is true, when you are born again, you are a different person. Not only that, but a new person, a new creature.

Excellent post!

SHW

 

[SHW]

A troll is some one who does one of these things.

Purposely comes onto a Thread and tries to derail it by spouting off wrong info and getting us off topic.

Purposely tries to pick fights on a thread that has no grounds what so ever.

Is completely Ignorant of what they claim and tries to put of the air that they are right and just and know better then everyone else.

also a troll is a mean green skinned monster that lives under bridges and tries to eat goats as they pass over.

Hi Dchsknight,

If you already saw the following posted, my apologies. I could not find my previous reply on this thread so I don’t know if it posted or not:

Thank you for the definitions. I did know the last one.

SHW

 

[tmac1956]

Yes it is. When asked if they are saved, Catholics **are instructed to respond **by saying they are currently saved (a process which has been completed by Jesus), they are also currently being saved (a different process that began after the first one ended and may or may not be completed), and they will be saved by an entirely different process after death- after the second process ends.
snip…

“… Instructed to respond…”? Really. Salvation for this Catholic comes by Baptism and by the Grace of God. By choice you remain ignorant of Catholic doctrine, even when this is repeatedly pointed out to you in love and kindness.

I don’t know about the rest of you, but as of late, I am seeing an attitude in some of these threads that smacks of downright intellectual dishonesty and real anger toward Catholics. How sad.