Catholics who vote for those who kill the innocent are-

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I don’t care if you like Trump or hate him (I am not fond of him), but he has been clearly and vocally pro life. and he has done more to get the judiciary back to following the constitution rather than “reinterpreting” it by hi appointment of judges. That, in turn, makes it a bit more likely that Roe vs. Wade and related cases may be either overturned or restricted, thus giving the states the ability to pass pro life laws - as a number of them have been doing. He has been more proactive in pro life related issues than any President I can think of. And it doesn’t hurt in the least that Vice President is also very pro life.

I disagree with you that voting based on pro life is ignorant; further if all Catholics would vote pro life, matters would change rapidly (however, as better than 75% of them don’t go to Mass on a regular basis - or at all, according to CARA, that has never happened).

As to the issue of lies vs. abortion, one is murder of an innocent life; the other may or may not obfuscate facts and tends to be outed. In short, one is heinous; the other depends on a great variety of issues.
 
Now that you have taken your shot at the Republicans and the Constitution, I would suggest you review Ruth Bader Ginsberg’s public comment that the Constitution needs to be rewritten - and I don’t thnk anyone with a reasonable amount of knowledge would call her a Republican.

Now, back to the topic.
 
Given that Margret Sanger was a woman, and most of the individuals involved with NARAL and Planned Parenthood are women, you are going to have a hard time convincing me that women automatically will be better.

You also might want to do a bit of research on the Just War theory. Your statement about muder and the attachment to political decisions is a tad bit over-broad.
 
JimG said:
I think that if slavery were still legal in the US, there would no doubt be some counseling us not to be single issue voters, because after all, slavery is not the only issue out there.
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If we look at history, then it would depend on what year it was, 1792 or 1860, or even 1868. I recently posted something about how we cannot assume how historical figures would react to current situations. I believe the revers is true, that too often we forget we view the past with too much knowledge from the present to understand the choices people faced then.
 
otjm said:
As to the issue of lies vs. abortion, one is murder of an innocent life; the other may or may not obfuscate facts and tends to be outed. In short, one is heinous; the other depends on a great variety of issues.
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The quote is from Scripture. While I agree that all sins are different, we should at least acknowledge the similarities that God gives us as to what he sees as serious. Satan is the Father of Lies, not the Father of Death.

Likewise, from Catholic teaching:
There are particular mortal sins that are so evil that they are said to be sins that cry to heaven for vengeance: murder (Gn 4:10), sodomy (Gn 18:20-21), oppression of the poor (Ex 2:23), and defrauding workers of their just wages (Jas 5:4).
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I would furthermore add, that as heinous as abortion is, it is not the worst thing, if you think about it. The worst thing is causing others to stumble, as eternal damnation is worse than death. What is more tragic, being murder, or eternal condemnation?
 
otjm said:
I don’t care if you like Trump or hate him (I am not fond of him), but he has been clearly and vocally pro life.

I disagree with you that voting based on pro life is ignorant; further if all Catholics would vote pro life, matters would change rapidly (however, as better than 75% of them don’t go to Mass on a regular basis - or at all, according to CARA, that has never happened).

As to the issue of lies vs. abortion, one is murder of an innocent life; the other may or may not obfuscate facts and tends to be outed. In short, one is heinous; the other depends on a great variety of issues.
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Trump is not Pro Life.

Catholics make up just over 20% of the US population. You really think it is all up to them?

These are Gods words, not mine.

16 Six things I will tell thee, and name a seventh for good measure, the Lord hates and will never abide; 17 the haughty look, the lying tongue, the hands that take innocent life, 18 the heart that ever devises thoughts of mischief, the feet that hasten upon an ill errand, 19 the false witness whose every breath is perjury, and the sower of strife among brethren.
 
It is about 23.9% of the population; however about 75% of Catholics do not attend Mass regularly; they range from occasional to what we call CINO - Catholics In Nam Only.

You apparently have not followed break-outs of voting on issues by category; and many votes would clearly be of opposite results if they followed Church teachings.

I find you quotes amusing; they are selective.
 
I am inclined to think that those involved in abortion are risking eternal damnation. Comparing or paralleling lies and abortion offends me. There are serious lies; there are far less than serious lies, and not all lies are mortal sins. But I kind of doubt that any abortion is a venial sin.
 
otjm said:
I find you quotes amusing; they are selective.
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You find Proverbs amusing? The quote is a passage, not selections. The Catholic doctrine also has a real corker for you, if you find that funny. There are sins that are labeled sins that cry out to Heaven for vengeance.
 
You missed entirely what I was saying, and I am not getting into a disagreement with you. It is not the substance of the quote but the use of it which amuses me.
 
Yes, the Civil War was dreadful. But it wasn’t just about slavery. It was about state’s rights versus federal control.

The next issue in that realm is going to be marijuana. There certainly won’t be a civil war over it, but the states will end up winning that issue.

Abortion may end up being left up to the states, eventually, but there will not be a complete ban on it, as the fed gov, won’t allow it.
 
otjm said:
It is about 23.9% of the population; however about 75% of Catholics do not attend Mass regularly; they range from occasional to what we call CINO - Catholics In Nam Only.

You apparently have not followed break-outs of voting on issues by category; and many votes would clearly be of opposite results if they followed Church teachings.

I find you quotes amusing; they are selective.
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Kind of like the RINO’s that control the republican party right now.

The Church does not say one can not vote for a candidate who is supportive of having our laws left as they currently are with women allowed to make their own choices regarding abortion. To say otherwise is simply a lie. Will let you determine how serious of a lie it is.

Why does God tell us those things which he hates. My opinion is because they are all evil. They all lead to bad things. Most of them cause a person to loose trust in those around them, and seek to divide people from one other.

All of them go directly against our call to love our neighbor as our self. Whether you choose to rank them according to how bad they are, that is your call. The Scripture is clear, and in no particular order, unless you want to order them as they are listed, and in that case lying comes before murder. Again, your call. I will take it the way it reads, all are unacceptable by God.
 
otjm said:
Given that Margret Sanger was a woman, and most of the individuals involved with NARAL and Planned Parenthood are women, you are going to have a hard time convincing me that women automatically will be better.
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Margaret Sanger was actually anti-abortion.
 
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otjm said:
You missed entirely what I was saying, and I am not getting into a disagreement with you. It is not the substance of the quote but the use of it which amuses me.
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Right now, there are many who believe that abortion is in a category of sin all by itself. There are also those who believe the same thing about homosexuality. I think it good sometimes to step back and see what God has said. What does he hate? What sins cry out to him for vengeance?

I guess I am not seeing the problem with it being used here. And lest we forget, that while abortion may well be the biggest social concern in the United States at this time in history, it is still not the mission of the Church. We are not a social activities club. Whether people go to Heaven or Hell will always be the most important concern. To this end, the sin of abortion is very concerning, but so are other mortal sins. There is a good reason why I consider the character of leaders I vote form.
 
Aren’t most parents willing to do right by their kids, the issue is families need support and charities and non profits only go so far?
 
Well, we can split hairs on the matter, She founded the Clinical Research Bureau as a means of promoting birth control, and in 1932 she directed it to refer patients to hospitals for “therapeutic abortions”. You are welcome to contend that she was adamant that those referred were truly in danger of death. You may have a hard time finding adequate documentation to support that.
 
otjm said:
Well, we can split hairs on the matter, She founded the Clinical Research Bureau as a means of promoting birth control, and in 1932 she directed it to refer patients to hospitals for “therapeutic abortions”. You are welcome to contend that she was adamant that those referred were truly in danger of death. You may have a hard time finding adequate documentation to support that.
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Can you provide a citation for that? My statement that she was against abortion comes from the fact her ideology was based on the idea that if people didn’t get unwanted pregnancies they wouldn’t get abortions, and thus birth control would solve that problem by preventing the unwanted pregnancies. For example, there were pamphlets distributed by her clinic that told people (might not have the words exactly right) “Do not kill, but prevent.”
 
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