Catholics Without Children-- On Purpose?

[Tink]

I’m so glad to have found this forum, because it’s the only place I can imagine finding feedback on this issue of mine.

I am marrying a Protestant this summer. We have prayed and prayed and talked and talked, and neither of us feel called to be parents. I have mental health issues that are inheritable and require medication that may harm a developing fetus. In addition, I am also currently battling vaginismus. My fiance, for his part, is in horrific student loan debt (100k plus.)

I adore babies and he’s very good with children, so it’s not as if we do not like little ones. There are many small children in our families and I’m a very devoted godmother. In addition, God has blessed me with a writing and teaching career in which I do a lot of creating and mentoring.

All of these factors, plus the struggles of maintaining a marriage and family within a disparity of cult (although we have discussed this endlessly, worship together at both churches, and agree on the elements of the Apostle’s Creed) have led us to very seriously consider not becoming parents. Of course, if the unexpected happens, we will raise the child to the best of our abilities, and will also leave ourselves open to adoption.

The potential abortive properties of hormonal birth control makes us very uncomfortable, and he understands my desire to be in step with the Church on this. We will be using the Two-Day NFP Method with a spermicidal backup during my nonfertile phases. (Not the optimal, I know.)

I’ve tried finding support groups for this, but all I’ve turned up were very negative-sounding people who referred to families with children as “breeders” and who seemed to ignore the sharp decline of population in the Western world. Even on a Catholic website, there was an interview with a feminist who had written a book called “Good Catholic Girls” and who announced that when she goes to Mass, she just hopes “not to be offended by the sermon.” Sigh.

It just seems vastly irresponsible of us to have children at this time, if ever. Shouldn’t we follow our calling? How to discern this from selfishness?

I welcome your thoughts, as well as your shared experiences.

 

[1ke]

You need to talk to your priest, pronto.

First, marriage is properly ordered to children and a permanent intention against them can be an impediment to a valid marriage. You may not be called to marriage.

Second, I think you and your FH should really think long and hard about this disparity of cult situation. You are already agreeing to sin mortally by contracepting and you aren’t even married yet!

I have no idea what you are talking about when you say the Two-Day NFP method, but “spermicidal backup” is contraception, plain and simple. Also, spermicide can definitely distort your fertility signs, so it’s not compatible with NFP anyway.

If you are already compromising to the point of mortal sin on this issue, what will be next?

Thirdly, as to the permanent intent against children, I think you need to re-evaluate your situation. If your situation (mental, financial, etc) changed would you be open to having children?

You aren’t going to find a Catholic support group for not having children because the PURPOSE of marriage is children.

Go talk to a priest. This is quite serious.

 

[StratusRose]

As I understand it, one of the main purposes (if not, the purpose) of the marriage vocation is to bring forth children. If you are going into a marriage and do not plan on having children, do not expect the church’s blessing. If your circumstances such as health and financial troubles are known before your marriage, again, don’t expect the church’s blessing. I remember a while back a couple wanted to get married, the man was a parapeligic and was not able to consummate their marriage, so they were denied their request to be married in the church.

I would consult your priest immediately. One of the things the priest asks you when you professing your vows is “Will you willingly and lovingly accept children?”

The church takes marriage very seriously, way more seriously than Protestant churches do. You both really need to consider why you want to get married and not have children. In the eyes of the church, this notion is incompatible with marriage. You wouldn’t expect a man who wants to become a priest to say “I want to be a priest, but I’d rather not celebrate Mass unless I have to.” You just can’t accept a vocation with conditions.

 

[AngelRose81]

I remember a while back a couple wanted to get married, the man was a parapeligic and was not able to consummate their marriage, so they were denied their request to be married in the church.

Really?? Sorry, I just never had a discussion about a situation such as that and it seems a little cruel to not let them get married in the Church or to give the blessing…

Anyway, back on point…Tink, definitely go talk to your priest. He will be able to help. Also, continue to pray about it. I am also married to a Protestant and he didn’t agree to NFP until recently (Praise the Lord!!). He is still scared to have children but he finally understood that he needs to be open to it and that if he isn’t he is making it harder on me being Catholic and trying to follow the Church. I also agree with 1ke, seriously consider whether or not you may have been called to marriage. I know that sounds really really harsh but you never know what God has in store. Plus, you have to remember that God will provide for you…even though you may have financial problems, health problems, etc…you still have to put your trust in God that he will help you and see you through it. Don’t forget how much of a blessing children are!!

I’ll be praying for you!

 

[ElizabethAnne]

Really?? Sorry, I just never had a discussion about a situation such as that and it seems a little cruel to not let them get married in the Church or to give the blessing…

It’s not cruel. It speaks to what marriage is. You cannot enter into matrimony without being able to consumate it, to become one flesh. There are other people that due to their health or other reasons just aren’t called to be married. God will always call them to something else, and doing His will is what brings us all true happiness.

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

I would like to express my admiration to you for posting your challenges here. You obviously want to do the right thing, and have the virtue of humility.

The Catholic Church teaches that marriage is not man-made. This is so different from many of the messages that we get today, that tell us marriage is whatever we want it to be. But we know that true marriage has been defined by God. He is the one who designed us and made us, he alone knows us completely and everything that we truly need, especially with regards to one of the most important aspects of our lives on earth.

What is God’s plan for marriage? Christ and the Old Testament offer much on this subject. The Catholic Church has summed it up very beautifully by attaching these four characteristics of God’s plan for marriage: Marriage is freely entered, total, faithful, and fruitful. Christ’s gift of himself to us, and spouses gift of themselves to each other, are perfect synonyms when discerning God’s plan for marriage. Jesus did not hold himself back from the Church, but gave freely, totally, faithfully and fruitfully to us.

Marriage and sexual relations are essential parts a package that was designed by God to be complete. Purposely removing one of the parts of the package, in an attempt to have just what we want of the package, is selfish. I encourage you to discern God’s will for your life. God calls those to marriage who are capable of entering into a marriage that is free, total, faithful and fruitful. If for reasons beyond your control you are unable to enter into such a relationship, then you must question your plan. Is this really what God wants me to do? Why would God be calling me for this? Why do I want to do it? Am I ignoring another plan for me that God has? If God is calling you to marriage, and in particular, to marriage with this man, then He must be trusted to provide what you need to enter into marriage as He defined it, and as Christ modelled it for us on the cross. The gift of our bodies in marriage to our spouse must be the same; freely given, total (without reserveration [contraception]), faithfully (until we die), and fruitfully (not just for ourselves, but for God and his Church [and what gift can we give that comes anywhere close to new life]).

Peace,

Dan

 

[ElizabethAnne]

The potential abortive properties of hormonal birth control makes us very uncomfortable, and he understands my desire to be in step with the Church on this. We will be using the Two-Day NFP Method with a spermicidal backup during my nonfertile phases. (Not the optimal, I know.)

Tink,

I’m trying to understand clearly what you are saying about your plans. Have you taken a class on NFP? I’ve never heard of a two-day NFP method, and I use NFP. Also, using a spermicide is not “in step with the Church.” And why would you need to use a spermicide during your nonfertile phase? I mean, there are certain times of the month where you are pretty much postitive that you cannot get pregnant. Why would you need a backup then?

I want to second the advice of other people on this forum, please speak with a priest ASAP. Getting married with the intent to contracept and not have children is not in line with Church teaching. Also, I think you should continue speaking with your fiance about the mixed marriage aspect of your situation. It can be very difficult to continue to go to Mass every Sunday and, in addition, attend a protestant worship service. A Catholic cannot miss Mass for such a service.

God bless.

 

[AngelRose81]

It’s not cruel. It speaks to what marriage is. You cannot enter into matrimony without being able to consumate it, to become one flesh. There are other people that due to their health or other reasons just aren’t called to be married. God will always call them to something else, and doing His will is what brings us all true happiness.

I guess I’d just never heard of a situation like this. I guess that’s why I percieved it as cruel . Thanks for giving the perspective on it though, my brain isn’t working to the full extent this morning so I guess cruel was the only thing I could think of!

 

[LeahInancsi]

My fiance, for his part, is in horrific student loan debt (100k plus.)

This is a whole different topic, but I’ll never understand why someone would put themselves into this kind of debt for an education unless they are assured a very high paying job that will allow them to repay the debt in less than ten years, for example.

I never realized how lucky I was to pay for my education on the “pay as you go” plan.

 

[Lillith]

I guess I’d just never heard of a situation like this. I guess that’s why I percieved it as cruel . Thanks for giving the perspective on it though, my brain isn’t working to the full extent this morning so I guess cruel was the only thing I could think of!

Hey AngelRose…no worries! When I first heard that it confounded me also. I too thought it sounded cruel. The fact is that the consumation of a marriage is the binding of the ceremony. That’s why if there was no consumation, a person could receive an anullment immediately. There is no marriage, if there is no consumation.

 

[1ke]

Really?? Sorry, I just never had a discussion about a situation such as that and it seems a little cruel to not let them get married in the Church or to give the blessing…

Impotence is an impediment to a valid marriage.

Your concept of the church being “cruel” implies a misunderstanding regarding the nature and purpose of marriage.

 

[maria29]

I remember a while back a couple wanted to get married, the man was a parapeligic and was not able to consummate their marriage, so they were denied their request to be married in the church.

**Each diocesian Bishop has the authority to grant the right of a valid marriage in these kind of cases. So its not something that is done automatically across the board.

But anyways back to the OP i too recommend you speak with a priest before making anymore wedding plans, etc. He may give you some insight on what you’re thinking

**

 

[StratusRose]

**Each diocesian Bishop has the authority to grant the right of a valid marriage in these kind of cases. So its not something that is done automatically across the board. **

But anyways back to the OP i too recommend you speak with a priest before making anymore wedding plans, etc. He may give you some insight on what you’re thinking

You raise a good point, but I would find it hard to accept if a bishop did allow a valid marriage for this unfortunate circumstance.

 

[leonie]

The desire to marry is a good thing. But, if you don’t intend to ever have children, then you can’t marry in the Church. If you intend to use NFP to space your children until health and financial situations improve, then you can marry. In other words, you can say to Life–not now. But, you can’t say, Not ever.

I’m in a mixed marriage. And, as much as I love my husband, I would advise anyone discerning marriage to never marry outside the Church. In fact, I tell them not to date nonCatholics.

It is understandable to be confused about contraception. There has been a lack of clarity in the instruction of this constant teaching of the Church. You can’t use any artificial contraception and be a faithful Catholic. In fact, using artificial contraception is considered grave matter.

The Catholic Church like a good Mother cares more about your soul than making lilfe convenient.

God Bless You.

 

[ack]

Hello Tink,

Would you plan on adopting children, sometime in the future, when and if you take care of the financial issues?

You said that you’re “open” to adoption, but would you make adoption a definite part of your future plans?

This may be a key question towards determining if you’re able to enter a valid sacramental marriage.

I’m so glad to have found this forum, because it’s the only place I can imagine finding feedback on this issue of mine.

I am marrying a Protestant this summer. We have prayed and prayed and talked and talked, and neither of us feel called to be parents. I have mental health issues that are inheritable and require medication that may harm a developing fetus. In addition, I am also currently battling vaginismus. My fiance, for his part, is in horrific student loan debt (100k plus.)

I adore babies and he’s very good with children, so it’s not as if we do not like little ones. There are many small children in our families and I’m a very devoted godmother. In addition, God has blessed me with a writing and teaching career in which I do a lot of creating and mentoring.

All of these factors, plus the struggles of maintaining a marriage and family within a disparity of cult (although we have discussed this endlessly, worship together at both churches, and agree on the elements of the Apostle’s Creed) have led us to very seriously consider not becoming parents. Of course, if the unexpected happens, we will raise the child to the best of our abilities, and will also leave ourselves open to adoption.

The potential abortive properties of hormonal birth control makes us very uncomfortable, and he understands my desire to be in step with the Church on this. We will be using the Two-Day NFP Method with a spermicidal backup during my nonfertile phases. (Not the optimal, I know.)

I’ve tried finding support groups for this, but all I’ve turned up were very negative-sounding people who referred to families with children as “breeders” and who seemed to ignore the sharp decline of population in the Western world. Even on a Catholic website, there was an interview with a feminist who had written a book called “Good Catholic Girls” and who announced that when she goes to Mass, she just hopes “not to be offended by the sermon.” Sigh.

It just seems vastly irresponsible of us to have children at this time, if ever. Shouldn’t we follow our calling? How to discern this from selfishness?

I welcome your thoughts, as well as your shared experiences.

 

[chevalier]

Progeny is one of the goods of marriage - in plain words, children are a necessary quality of marriage. Exclusion of children makes marriage invalid. If marriage would be of doubtful validity, it is not to be celebrated.

 

[Tink]

Thanks to all for your honest replies.

Many of you have suggested that I talk to “my priest.” I don’t have one. I think, sadly, few Catholics do these days. I’d love to have a trustworthy priest to discuss this with, but in my experience, every priest I talk to is going to give me a different answer, and I’ve never really settled in a parish since I moved from my hometown because the diocese in which I am living is very liberal. Some priests are OK with the Pill, for example. I feel like I’m on my own.

I have to say I’m crying here, extremely frustrated, as I feel my fiance and I are totally alone. I feel terrified and almost nauseated at the thought of motherhood-- there is no joy or peace when I contemplate it. I wish I did. Oh, it would make my life so much easier. Not feeling the ticking of my biological clock, AT ALL, makes me feel abnormal, unwomanly, and like a terrible Catholic. It’s as if I had no hands and my Church kept telling me to love playing the piano. In a strange way, perhaps I somewhat understand what Catholics with homosexual tendancies experience.

Our Christian friends who marry can’t wait to be parents. Some of my female friends aren’t even dating anybody and they feel ready! But we certainly don’t fit in with those who look down their noses at those who have children and tell the Church, “You have no right to be in my womb.” That’s not where we are at all. Isn’t parenthood the most difficult job in the world? Shouldn’t I approach it with anticipation and surety? I feel neither of these.

Re: Student loan debt: Yes, he is in a line of work which will be very high-paying… eventually. But right now he is in the training phase. His salary is terrible. He can barely make his minimum student loan payments. And by the time we can afford children, I will very likely be past 35.

Re: Am I called to marriage… We have both reflected on this a great deal and we can both confidently say that we are are, and called to marriage to one another. It feels very right. We have an intensely close relationship and agree on many aspects concerning the Lord. We agree on more, faith-wise, than some of the Catholics I’ve dated. The priest who met with us in the Pre-Cana talks showed no concern and in fact praised us on how much thought and prayer we’ve put into our relationship.

It doesn’t feel right to not marry this man. I am 30. I’ve been happy in serious relationships, and happy single. So I’m neither grabbing the first man who comes along, nor acting out of desperation. We are both virgins and feel that we have truly found the one we’ve both been waiting for.

Re: Disparity of cult-- As we have been dating, we go to both a Catholic Mass and a service in his church, a practice we have no plans to interrupt. We have chosen a faith community in his religion as well as a parish to join after the wedding. He understands that I do not view Mass and a Protestent service as interchangable. He has even avoided meat on Fridays in Lent to show solidarity with me. We will most likely go to a Saturday vigil Mass and then a Sunday service in his faith. I would not marry a man for whom this were not important and who understood the importance of my Catholicism. He himself attends several church functions and Bible studies a week.

Re: The TwoDay method-- This is a 96% effective form of NFP recently unveiled by researches at Georgetown. It was developed for women like me with irregular periods and sleep modes, and for use by those who may not have the educational means to practice other methods. Link: irh.org/RTP-TDM.htm

When asked if we welcome children in the marriage ceremony, we will both honestly answer yes, because, as I mentioned, if I do become pregnant, I’m certainly not going to flush the baby down a sink. We will raise it as best we can, and, as I also mentioned, also consider adoption if finances allow.

I just don’t understand why some couples can’t be called to marriage and not parenthood, especially when dealing with the issues I’ve discussed here. Several Holy Fathers have written that sex is not purely for procreation, but necessary for a good, healthy marriage. It’s not as if we’re considering not having children because we want to buy a boat or go on weekend benders. Why, then, are some couples infertile if this is what God wants for us and if a marriage is not a marriage unless children are involved? Is their marriage invalid? Can a woman who has had a medical hysterectomy at an early age get married? Does this mean that two 80 years who find one another cannot have a full marriage? That doesn’t make sense to me. Really, honestly, I wish I felt differently.

Most people, when dealing with fertility issues, are trying to get pregnant. You see how utterly desolate I feel here.

 

[1ke]

Many of you have suggested that I talk to “my priest.” I don’t have one.
…

Some priests are OK with the Pill, for example. I feel like I’m on my own.

And yet, you plan to contracept yourself. That is a mortal sin.

I advise that you go and talk to a priest.

It feels very right.

“Feelings” can be persuasive, but are not reliable indicators when at odds with the revealed Truths of the Faith.

Re: The TwoDay method-- This is a 96% effective form of NFP recently unveiled by researches at Georgetown. It was developed for women like me with irregular periods and sleep modes, and for use by those who may not have the educational means to practice other methods. Link: irh.org/RTP-TDM.htm

Yikes! This is not a method I would use.

I suggest you look at Creighton if you do not want to take your temperature as in Sympto-Thermal.

I just don’t understand why some couples can’t be called to marriage and not parenthood,

Because the purpose of marriage IS parenthood.

Why, then, are some couples infertile if this is what God wants for us and if a marriage is not a marriage unless children are involved?

All of creation was damaged by original sin. And, diseases are a result of that.

Is their marriage invalid?

No

Can a woman who has had a medical hysterectomy at an early age get married?

Yes

Does this mean that two 80 years who find one another cannot have a full marriage?

No

That doesn’t make sense to me.

In none of these scenarios you listed do the couples assert a positive act of the will to exclude children.

I am sorry you are in despair. I really think, given your medical/psychological state and your concerns you need to seek help from a priest and a Catholic counselor… not a web board.

 

[katieq]

Hi Tink,

I have to say I’m crying here, extremely frustrated, as I feel my fiance and I are totally alone. I feel terrified and almost nauseated at the thought of motherhood-- there is no joy or peace when I contemplate it. I wish I did. Oh, it would make my life so much easier. Not feeling the ticking of my biological clock, AT ALL, makes me feel abnormal, unwomanly, and like a terrible Catholic. It’s as if I had no hands and my Church kept telling me to love playing the piano. In a strange way, perhaps I somewhat understand what Catholics with homosexual tendancies experience.

Having children in a marriage is not simply done because of a biological clock ticking (and if you don’t feel a clock, you’re not abnormal…I’m not really sure what the clock is and I already have one son ).

When asked if we welcome children in the marriage ceremony, we will both honestly answer yes, because, as I mentioned, if I do become pregnant, I’m certainly not going to flush the baby down a sink. We will raise it as best we can, and, as I also mentioned, also consider adoption if finances allow…

Welcoming children doesn’t mean “if it happens we won’t abort and will raise as best we can, but will attempt to prevent it”, but “we welcome children in this marriage”. NFP is not accepted by the church to be used with the intention of preventing pregnancy through the whole lifetime of the marriage, but only when serious reason calls for it.

I just don’t understand why some couples can’t be called to marriage and not parenthood, especially when dealing with the issues I’ve discussed here. Several Holy Fathers have written that sex is not purely for procreation, but necessary for a good, healthy marriage. It’s not as if we’re considering not having children because we want to buy a boat or go on weekend benders. Really, honestly, I wish I felt differently…

Holy Fathers have written that marriage is not purely for procreation, but it is to be both procreative and unitive. Just as the unitive aspect must be there, so must the procreative aspect. This is one of the reasons the Church does not allow ABC (and the use of NFP to this end is an incorrect use of it). And this is not to say that a marriage can’t exist without children *(if God intends it). *However, infertile couples have concieved. Your fertility is a gift. I suggest reading Theology of the Body, or a book or CD by Christopher West (I strongly suggest “Naked Without Shame”) as this will explain this section far more fully than I can.

Also, I am confused as to why you would adopt when you would not consider having children naturally (and I am all for adoption, it’s wonderful).

God bless,

PS. Sometimes I come off as harsh when I don’t mean to.

 

[jmcrae]

Tink;

Not everyone is called to the state of marriage.

What marriage is, is the founding of a family, and the creation of a safe home where children will be raised.

If after the wedding one is found to be infertile, that doesn’t invalidate the marriage - but if one goes into the marriage knowing that one is infertile, or with plans to deliberately make oneself infertile, then the marriage is of doubtful validity.

Marriage is not merely a contract to live together and have sex. It is not about whatever tax benefits or other social benefits may accrue to married persons. Indeed, the only reason those benefits exist at all is in order to encourage people to be married, so that they will bear and raise safe, secure children.