Catholics Without Children-- On Purpose?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tink
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I just want to chime in here. I was in a mixed marriage in the past and I don’t recommend it either. I will be married in August to the most wonderful Catholic woman I have ever met! 🙂

Few things I want to add. No “SEX” is not just to create children and niether is marriage.

Children are a result of a marriage and should not be hindered. A marriage is the joining of a husband and wife, as is sex is the joining of husband and wife. The outcome of that union is children and their ultimate love for each other.
 
Sanctamaria,

I was not addressing the OP, I was addressing you. You said,

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanctamaria17 forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
*Just use a method that is approved by the Church and pray that God may guide you throughout your marriage:) *

NFP is not Catholic contraception or a loophole that lets Catholics get married and have no children on purpose. Unfortunatly, many people think that is what NFP is, and I would not want to confuse them further.

Whether or not the OP should get married is not something I addressed at all in that post. Here, I think you are responding to what others have posted and confused me with them.

OP, I would urge you to find a priest and speak with him about your situation.

God bless.
 
Please, Please don’t use the two day method…

I have had a very noticeable secretion flow just before a temp rise, but for the last few months I had nothing noticeable. Does it mean I did not ovulate? No. I did ovulate based on my temp. rise. and so the two day method will not always be reliable. Contact Couple to Couple and use a more reliable method. Especially if you are dead set against not having children now or ever.

I do agree that the institute of marriage was institute by Christ primarily to procreate. So if you are entering marriage having decided that you will go to any means to prevent pregnancy, including artificial contraception you are going against Church teaching. As you know when we get married in the Catholic Church we are agreeing to be open to life. I know you said that if you did become pregnant you would not have an abortion, and you would be the best parent possible. I think that is great, but as the Church teaches you are not supposed to us a spermicide. I have also read that if a women does become pregnant having used a spermicide there is higher risk for birth defects because of the spermicide.

You can find an orthodox priest you just have to look harder for one. There is one here on the boards that will answer your questions. You can find them on the internet and ask questions. I’m not sure where you live but you just have to seek them out. There are many blogs that priest have that you could email. Just keep looking.

I hope you will prayfully consider all that is being sugguested to you,
Angela
 
40.png
Tink:
I guess I haven’t been clear enough about my medical issues here: Severe, chronic depression and obssesive-compulsive disorder. Things that a 30 year old husband can deal with but a 3 year old might not. They are hereditary, and they are chronic. Those of you who have suffered from mental health issues know that this is just as crippling as a missing a major body part. Would God want me to have a child whose mother breaks down in panic attacks? Sure, there are women out there who can handle this. But they may also feel strongly called to motherhood. The combination of these two would not make for a responsible situation were I to have children.
Click to expand...
My mother has severe mental health problems which made parenting problematic for our family. I sympathize with your concerns, and I’m sure the thought of parenting with those added difficulties is even more terrifying than usual.

Still, as the child of a mother with severe BP, I am much, much happier existing than not existing, and thankful that God gave her the necessary grace and support through husband and family to raise me.

I do not think that God will ruin your life through having children. If you marry and have children, they will be a blessing, and you will be given what you need.

The Church teaches that marriage without the intention of being open to new life is inherently wrong, because marriage was ordained for the purpose of having, protecting, and raising children. It is also ordained for the goods of companionship and mutual support, but to marry with the intention of leaving out any of those goods would, I think, render a marriage invalid. By intending not to have kids, you’re leaving out a central part of the good of marriage.

If two people were to wait until they were well past childbearing to deliberately sidestep the possibility of children, I would think that would make the marriage invalid. It fulfils the definition of mortal sin- knowledge of wrong and wilful consent. People who happen to marry late in life without doing it to avoid children are not setting their will against God, and do not sin through their marriage.

It’s a difference of intent.

I may be hearing you wrongly, and please correct me if I am, but I think you’re afraid that God will wreck your life, and your children’s lives, if you have children. I think you have to trust that, if God is calling you to marriage, that the associated good of children will be okay. Certainly not without pain and stress and fear, but no parenting ever is without those things. Trust God. Do not set yourself against Him.

Blessings.
 
I had a nervous breakdown complete with Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome and Reactive Psychosis. I am also a mother of four. My children were basically traumatized for two years because of this condition. Thankfully, due to correct meds and time and God’s blessing I am now functional.
I understand the OP’s concern; mental health issues are very serious when considering having a family.
I don’t understand why, using NFP, she shouldn’t be allowed to plan on NOT having children. We’re not all called to be parents.
 
ElizabethAnne said:
Sanctamaria, it’s not quite that simple. The Church teaches that NFP should only be used for “just” reasons and should not be used to permanently exclude children from a marriage.
Click to expand...
Hi,

that’s technically not true.

If your “just cause” lasts for the entirety of your marriage, then you are able to use NFP to avoid having children for the entirety of your marriage.

What isn’t justified is to enter into marriage already with the intention of avoiding children for the entirety of one’ marriage.

Tink – I would really talk to a good Priest about this (if you don’t know anyone, then find one on the internet and email him. Or email jimmy akin at www.jimmyakin.org he is a Catholic apologist and will answer you on his blog. He knows the Church’s teaching on basically everything)

You need to check out this issue because it could prevent your marriage from being valid.
 
RWMorris said:
I don’t understand why, using NFP, she shouldn’t be allowed to plan on NOT having children. We’re not all called to be parents.
Click to expand...
Marriage is defined by God, not by us. The Catholic Church teaches that marriage is the foundation for a family, and that this means children. A ‘marriage’ of two people who do not intend to ‘start a family’ is not a marriage in God’s eyes. It is two people trying to legitimize purposefully sterile sexual activity. Marriage was not created for this purpose.

Intending to use NFP to never have children puts one at odds of the promise to be ‘accept children willingly as a gift from God.’ Trying to get married intending never to have children is not acceptance of the gift. It’s turning one’s back on the gift.

If one truly discerns that God is not calling him/her to parenthood, then He is not calling them to be married either. He does not call couples to be married just so they can have purposely sterile sex.
 
Dan_Grelinger said:
Marriage is defined by God, not by us. The Catholic Church teaches that marriage is the foundation for a family, and that this means children. A ‘marriage’ of two people who do not intend to ‘start a family’ is not a marriage in God’s eyes. It is two people trying to legitimize purposefully sterile sexual activity. Marriage was not created for this purpose.

Intending to use NFP to never have children puts one at odds of the promise to be ‘accept children willingly as a gift from God.’ Trying to get married intending never to have children is not acceptance of the gift. It’s turning one’s back on the gift.

If one truly discerns that God is not calling him/her to parenthood, then He is not calling them to be married either. He does not call couples to be married just so they can have purposely sterile sex.
Click to expand...
The OP already said she would accept children that God sent her. In any case, using your argument, older people shouldn’t get married, knowing they won’t have children.
I stick to my original belief: if someone has mental health issues as well as being on medications that may harm a fetus, using NFP is a viable option.
 
RWMorris said:
The OP already said she would accept children that God sent her. In any case, using your argument, older people shouldn’t get married, knowing they won’t have children.
I stick to my original belief: if someone has mental health issues as well as being on medications that may harm a fetus, using NFP is a viable option.
Click to expand...
Your extrapolation to ‘older people’ of my arguments is not where I could logically take it. The morality of intent and actions are age independent. If the intent is to never have children, and the actions follow that intent, then the marriage is not valid. Is there an ‘exception’ to any of the marriage vows for people because of age? May couples of a certain age just omit the commitment “accept children from God lovingly and bring them up according to the law of Christ and his Church.” If so, what is that age and where is it specified? I understand your reasons for suggesting this, but if you claim to have official teaching of the Catholic Church aligned with your conclusion, well, I’m from Missouri, you’ll need to show me.

Your last statement is correct inasmuch as it contains, but leaves out a very important issue made by the OP. NFP is a tool that can be used by married couples, but its morality is intent dependent. Even NFP can be immorally applied through mal-intent. If it is used to prevent having any children at all, its use is illicit, and the marriage likely invalid. If NFP and contraceptives are used in this marriage, the intent NOT to accept the natural ends of the marital act are apparent. Marriage cannot be reduced to just a license for two people to have sex.
 
On re-reading the Catechism, perhaps you’re right, Dan.
The Catechism states that “the refusal of fertility turns married life away from its supreme gift, the child”.
I stand corrected. :rolleyes:
Perhaps the OP could mull the idea of marriage over a little more thoroughly before marrying…although I too have had mental health issues, I am very glad we were open to life, and my children have really helped to bring me out of myself. Rather than focusing on myself I am forced to focus on them and on my husband.
Besides, having children is lots of fun!
 
I think that this forum is a very poor place to get good advice. You two sound like a neat couple, and you have every right to get married. It sounds like your reasons for avoiding parenthood are very serious.
 
Listener said:
I think that this forum is a very poor place to get good advice. You two sound like a neat couple, and you have every right to get married. It sounds like your reasons for avoiding parenthood are very serious.
Click to expand...
If this place is such a poor place for good advice why are you here?
 
Well this thread has got me thinking. After having our first (and only) child I was advised getting pregnant again would almost certainly be fatal for me do to the progression of my heart condition. We have used NFP since and will continue to do so until I reach menopause.
Now what if I had been told that before I married my husband? What if my heart disease had progressed so much that getting pregnant at all would be too dangerous? We would have had to use NFP to avoid children indefinitely. Would I have not been allowed to marry?
 
rayne89, I don’t have the answer to that question, but I look forward to the answer!

I was trying to imagine what the advice would have been 100 years ago, before NFP knowledge. If you knew that pregnancy would be likely fatal and thus needed to avoid it indefinitely, I think the only answer would have been total abstinence. And total abstinence as a plan for marriage makes it invalid.

If I understand the op’s objections to pregnancy correctly, they are:
  1. mental health issues of the mother
  2. severe side effects to the baby of the mother’s medication
  3. lack of maternal feeling
  4. large temporary financial burden
#3 is the one that I see as untenable. I agree with a previous poster that if you are truly called to marriage, you are called to parenthood whether you have the feelings or not. Not having the feeling of wanting children does not seem to me to be compatible with marriage. Feelings may change or they may not. In this case, I would say, consider more rationally whether or not now is the time for marriage.

Regarding #1 & #2: What if the OP had hope that in the future better medications would come along that would not adversely affect a baby in utero? Or that there would be treatment available for her condition or possibly her child’s condition?

Regarding #4: Obviously, with time this will be solved. Using NFP for a time until the financial burden is lessened is not wrong. Women over 35 do have children.

I sympathize with trying to find a reliable orthodox priest or counselor in your area! Don’t give up the search though. It’s worth the trouble.
 
The_Hidden_Life said:
I agree with a previous poster that if you are truly called to marriage, you are called to parenthood whether you have the feelings or not…
Click to expand...
80 yr old woman and an 80 yr old man get married. The church considers their marriage valid. They can’t have children and can’t adopt. It’s a given fact before they get married. Why is this marriage valid if marriage is to have children?
I already read that this type marriage is valid on the “ask an apologist” board. Anyone know???
 
littlepaperstar said:
80 yr old woman and an 80 yr old man get married. The church considers their marriage valid. They can’t have children and can’t adopt. It’s a given fact before they get married. Why is this marriage valid if marriage is to have children?
I already read that this type marriage is valid on the “ask an apologist” board. Anyone know???
Click to expand...
They can still be open to life. Remember, Abraham was 100 years old, and Sarah was 95 years old. 😉
 
angiegirl67 said:
If this place is such a poor place for good advice why are you here?
Click to expand...
I don’t know about the previous poster, but I started posting here to learn more about Catholicism. Threads like this make me realize that I did the right thing by dropping out of RCIA. Denying a person a life partner and extended family because they can’t or won’t procreate? That’s exactly what a paraplegic needs, to grow old and die alone. How wonderfully compassionate and Christlike.

Sick. Just sick.
 
JimmyJeff said:
I don’t know about the previous poster, but I started posting here to learn more about Catholicism. Threads like this make me realize that I did the right thing by dropping out of RCIA. Denying a person a life partner and extended family because they can’t or won’t procreate? That’s exactly what a paraplegic needs, to grow old and die alone. How wonderfully compassionate and Christlike.

Sick. Just sick.
Click to expand...
“For some people no explanation is neccessary, for others no explanation will suffice.”

You are purposely trying to convince yourself that the Catholic Church’s teachings are wrong, even though it is pretty evident that, deep down in your heart, you know the Church is God’s one & true Church.

You’re just looking for any excuse to try and justify what you know wasn’t the right decision (leaving RCIA)

Being compassionate doesn’t mean letting people do whatever they want.

Marriage and sex have a purpose and meaning as instituted by God and proclaimed by His Church.

We can’t change that.

Sex is a phyical expression of the marriage vows and it is the way by which God grants the gift of children.

If someone is completely and permanently unable to ever to physically engage in sex, then they simply can’t do what is required of a married person to do.

It’s not a case of being cruel or denying them something they have a right to.

Married people have certain duties and obligations towards one another (such as having sex), and if it is known before-hand, that a certain person can not, and will never (despite any medical help avaliable), ever ever ever be able to sustain an erection and have sex…well, then they are simply unable to do what a married person is required to do.

and so there marriage won’t be valid.

Today is Divine Mercy Sunday; may God be merciful to you, grant you the gift of a loving humble heart to accept his Truth.

and I hope you have a beautiful day!
 
That was one of the silliest and saddest justifications I’ve ever read. I absolutely didn’t anything that had anything to do with Jesus in your post.

I did get a chuckle out of the fact that you can read the minds of people on a message board though. Quite New Agey of you. 👍 However, you are wrong. I’m not going to explain why but maybe one day you’ll figure it out for yourself. Here is a hint though, there are RULES and then there are “rules”.

Anyway, you can continue to post on how you “know” what I know. I’m done with this thread. It’s way too upsetting and it confirms what people told me and what I suspected all along.

You have a terrifc day as well. I’m going to a baseball game with my wonderful family this afternoon, after 2 weeks of cold and rain, it’s sunny and beautiful.
 
I am concerned about the person who says that he or she is going to quit RCIA because of some opinions expressed in this forum. I would like to quote from Mark, Chapter 10, verses 6 through 9:

“But from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.”

This is Catholic teaching that comes directly from the New Testament. I think that the person who started this thread can consider herself “open to children.” For all she knows, God could heal the problem that requires her to take medication. Also, new medications come out all of the time. There could be one in the future that she could take during pregnancy. She has acknowledged that she would not have an abortion if she did get pregnant. Therefore, I believe that she is “open to life.”

There are many people hanging around these forums who have a much more conservative opinion than even the experts on “Ask an Apologist.” I don’t think they reflect the opinions of the ordinary Catholics that you will meet at Mass on Sunday.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top