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RebeccaJ
Guest
I’m sorry.
Glad you’re out though. Enjoy the evening. Whats left of it.
Oh yeah, you’re a night owl! :yawn: :aok:
Back at it soon enough. Here we go!! I emailed ya.
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Back at it soon enough. Here we go!! I emailed ya.
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CrossoverManiac
Guest
[sarcasm]Absolutely! We ought take a cue from Edgar Allen Poe and wall him up with a cask of amontillado. What idiot came up with the stupid concept of Freedom of Religion anyway?
[/sarcasm]
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RebeccaJ
Guest
Blood Atonement of Mormonism:
“It is true that the blood of the Son of God was shed for sins through the fall and those committed by men, yet men can commit sins which it can never remit… There are sins that can be atoned for by an offering upon an altar, as in ancient days; and there are sins that the blood of a lamb, or a calf, or of turtle dove, cannot remit, but they must be atoned for by the blood of the man.” Brigham Young, Sept. 21, 1856
"I could refer you to plenty of instances where men have been righteously slain, in order to atone for their sins. I have seen scores and hundreds of people for whom there would have been a chance… if their lives had been taken and their blood spilled on the ground as a smoking incense to the Almighty, but who are now angels to the Devil… I have known a great many men who have left this Church for whom there is no chance whatever for exaltation, but if their blood had been spilled, it would have been better for them…
“This is loving our neighbor as ourselves; if he needs help, help him; and if he wants salvation and it is necessary to spill his blood on the earth in order that he may be saved, spill it…if you have sinned a sin requiring the shedding of blood, except the sin unto death, would not be satisfied nor rest until your blood should be spilled, that you might gain that salvation you desire. That is the way to love mankind.” Brigham Young, Feb. 8, 1857
(How about it bukowski…compare this one to limbo.)
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dianaiad
Guest
and to you “Happy Valley” (which is a pejorative aimed at both the SLC and Provo areas, also known as the ‘Wasatch Front’) is just Provo?Let’s see… did I actually tell you that or not? Nope. Didn’t say that. I don’t like being misquoted. Please refrain from doing so again, please.
Well as far as Geography goes… Since Orem/Provo is about 34 miles south of Salt Lake City proper and from what you’re telling me that Logan is 75 miles from Salt Lake and Bear Lake County is another 30 miles… hmmmm.
I’m counting about 139 miles between the two. Of course I’m no Math genius.
in Christ
Steph… I’m 41, btw.
OK.
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nancy_dalrymple
Guest
Hay Vinney if your milk is this sour,I wouldnt want to think of what the meat would be like Moo,Moo,PS I’m more into Spiritual foodIt is always fascinating to me how I can bear my testimony of Christ, and it receives no acknowledgement from those who wish to contend rather than discuss.
The passages you quoted are indeed there and regulate something I do not have experience with, so I can’t comment directly without some research - research you would probably discount in any case. There is an underlying message of obedience to God’s law in these verses, regardless of how you feel about them at present.
It is also a very curious position to oppose the concept of polygamy in the Christian and Jewish world. From what I know, the twelve tribes of Israel were not born from the same wife, both living at the same time, to the same man… yet they play such a significant role in our rich Christian legacy… perhaps the law of plural wives is in fact approved by God, even if you or I do or don’t believe in it.
How about you start with the milk before the meat… just a loving recommendation from the cow (me)…
You people go out of your way to defend not your faith but your saviour Joseph Smith,What ever happened to defending the Lord Jesus? Nancy:thumbsup:
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tundramom
Guest
I called it “Happy Valley” when I lived there and when I was still a Mormon. To anyone who grew up there it WAS Happy Valley. If you recall, I believe I called it “Utah Valley” in my original post.
and since Provo is the capitol of Utah County, home of BYU, Not to mention the MTC, etc. yup… most people look at Provo as the heart of Utah “Happy” Valley.
and since the point of the mountain is/was the edge of Utah Valley and Provo is pretty much in the center… well go figure. I realize the “point” isn’t there any longer but to those who grew up there, the “point” was where the valley ended and the evil of SLC started.
in Christ
Steph
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truthsilence
Guest
Hey, everyone I work with is from ‘Happy Valley’. Great people.I called it “Happy Valley” when I lived there and when I was still a Mormon. To anyone who grew up there it WAS Happy Valley. If you recall, I believe I called it “Utah Valley” in my original post.
and since Provo is the capitol of Utah County, home of BYU, Not to mention the MTC, etc. yup… most people look at Provo as the heart of Utah “Happy” Valley.
and since the point of the mountain is/was the edge of Utah Valley and Provo is pretty much in the center… well go figure. I realize the “point” isn’t there any longer but to those who grew up there, the “point” was where the valley ended and the evil of SLC started.
in Christ
Steph
I heard they’ve put in a ‘sweet’ sledding hill there at the “point of the mountain”. We should have a senior outing.
As long as they have the paramedics waiting at the bottom of that hill, I’m game, if you are!
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tundramom
Guest
I’m sitting here in Minnesota where we have a blizzard warning and I’m looking out my window. I just drove home from a morning meeting about 45 miles away. It normally takes me about an hour. Took me about double that today. I’ve stoked up my wood stove and drinking a nice hot cup of tea.Hey, everyone I work with is from ‘Happy Valley’. Great people.
I heard they’ve put in a ‘sweet’ sledding hill there at the “point of the mountain”. We should have a senior outing.
As long as they have the paramedics waiting at the bottom of that hill, I’m game, if you are!
Sure, I’m game!
I was driving home from SLC one night coming around the point and just before Lehi (this was pre-olympic game times) there was a steep drop off after the exit to the prison. I was going about 15 miles an hour and a limo came up on my left, hit his brakes, tried to go into my lane and ended up sliding with his back end and disappeared over the edge. The last thing I saw of him was the absolute terror.
At the time I didn’t even pray for them. I don’t know how many people were in the limo as their windows were darkened.
Today while coming home from my meeting I was reminded of that night. All before I happened to get on my computer.
Could you all join me in prayer for that limo and his passengers? At the time I was a snot nosed kid trying to make it home… I wish I had stopped. I think it was about 1983 or so. Please pray for their souls.
in Christ
Steph
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truthsilence
Guest
Scary, Steph! My daughter drives that route everyday. She tells me it amazes her that anyone makes it to their destination. Lots of crazy drivers, apparently, and with snow and ice, its a bad combination.I’m sitting here in Minnesota where we have a blizzard warning and I’m looking out my window. I just drove home from a morning meeting about 45 miles away. It normally takes me about an hour. Took me about double that today. I’ve stoked up my wood stove and drinking a nice hot cup of tea.
Sure, I’m game!
I was driving home from SLC one night coming around the point and just before Lehi (this was pre-olympic game times) there was a steep drop off after the exit to the prison. I was going about 15 miles an hour and a limo came up on my left, hit his brakes, tried to go into my lane and ended up sliding with his back end and disappeared over the edge. The last thing I saw of him was the absolute terror.
At the time I didn’t even pray for them. I don’t know how many people were in the limo as their windows were darkened.
Today while coming home from my meeting I was reminded of that night. All before I happened to get on my computer.
Could you all join me in prayer for that limo and his passengers? At the time I was a snot nosed kid trying to make it home… I wish I had stopped. I think it was about 1983 or so. Please pray for their souls.
in Christ
Steph
I’ll bet it is haunting to think of that limo drivers face. Hopefully they made it out alright. God bless them.
Peace,
Tami
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mfbukowski
Guest
So we kill Joseph and pray for crazy driving limo drivers. Makes sense.
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zaffiroborant
Guest
Um no one here killed JS, talk about making sense.
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dianaiad
Guest
Actually…
Here is a selection of quotes from posters to this thread:
sheesh.
Though I do appreciate his willingness to take ‘the challenge’ and make the sacrifice required to not kill him.
Here is a selection of quotes from posters to this thread:
(I see. Before he would agree not to kill the man, the question has to be reworded in order to eliminate any possibility that what he claimed was ‘true.’ That’s rather odd.)
“they saw no other option?” “frontier justice?” The problem here is that the principles of justice that we hold dear now were very much available then…and they were observed by being smashed to smithereens. Yet this opinion romanticizes it; 'frontier justice?"
sheesh.
What’s so ‘tough’ about this question?
Though I do appreciate his willingness to take ‘the challenge’ and make the sacrifice required to not kill him.
Interesting how judgmental she was about JS…and never once condemned the men who murdered him.
Murder isn’t justified…unless the victim actually attempts to defend himself?
Ok, that last was from a real weirdo and I don’t judge Catholics or Catholicism by him.
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truthsilence
Guest
Sheesh. This is so wrong. On so many levels.
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jonnyws
Guest
That would be a mortal sin.
We try and avoid those
We try and avoid those
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truthsilence
Guest
I think there are about 18 pages of posts to this thread. It seems like you went to some effort to pull out a few that sound even “iffy”. Still, the only one who actually said they’d kill ANYONE, you yourself said was a real weirdo and that you don’t judge us by him. (thanks, by the way)
So lets just say no, Catholics would NOT kill Joseph Smith. I think thats a fair conclusion.
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why_me
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Would catholics kill JS? It depends on the year. For example, if the year was 1211 and a man by the name of Joseph Smith claimed to have the visions that he had, and brought forth a book called the book of mormon in christianized Europe, yes, catholics would kill him for being a heretic. This act would be either a burning at the stake or decapitation. Think of poor Jan Hus who was burned at the stake for a far less serious infraction.
Also, although JS was murdered, it is widely believed among mormons that the restored gospel was brought at that time because the message of the restoration would be received due to the safeguards in place due to the US constitution. In old europe, the punishment of blasphemy would have been severe.
Also, although JS was murdered, it is widely believed among mormons that the restored gospel was brought at that time because the message of the restoration would be received due to the safeguards in place due to the US constitution. In old europe, the punishment of blasphemy would have been severe.
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why_me
Guest
Again it would depend on the year. Catholics would have certainly killed him for heresy in the bygone past and this act would have been condoned by the church. Many were burned for far less infractions. Even Saint John of the Cross was imprisioned by his own friars and starved before being rescued years after his imprisionment. Catholics and the catholic church were not very tolerant of different viewpoints in matters of religion before the reformation and during it.
And if we go back to 1820 Europe, there would have been great hostility to JS’s message and yes, he would probably have been killed before the message could spread.
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dianaiad
Guest
Well, it’s a hopeful conclusion, anyway.I think there are about 18 pages of posts to this thread. It seems like you went to some effort to pull out a few that sound even “iffy”. Still, the only one who actually said they’d kill ANYONE, you yourself said was a real weirdo and that you don’t judge us by him. (thanks, by the way)
So lets just say no, Catholics would NOT kill Joseph Smith. I think thats a fair conclusion.
…but the claim was that NOBODY on the thread approved of it, and quite frankly, more than one, obviously, did.
To be honest, I think that members of any belief system are capable of catching the mob spirit, and doing things that they would not dream of doing individually.
Anybody.
And Catholics, bless you, have nearly two thousand years of history that proves this to be true.
I hope that modern almost instant communication and equally rapid judgment would stop most of it, but as I look around the world and see what people are capable of in spite of it, I don’t feel all that sanguine about it.
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dianaiad
Guest
I didn’t include the many comments about not believing he was a prophet…though quite honestly, that very comment is a justification. To say, in essence, “I wouldn’t kill him” BUT “he was a fraud” is to in some way justify the action. Saying that is an attempt to make oneself feel better about the fact that he was murdered.
Nobody wants to think that such a thing could happen to a completely innocent person–if he is innocent of whatever it was he got murdered for, then surely he did something ELSE worthy of death, right? So unless we identify with the victim in some way, listing the faults of the victim balances the universe’s scales of justice for us. it’s natural. It’s very human.
And it’s wrong. We have to be careful of it, and watch out for it.
Nobody wants to think that such a thing could happen to a completely innocent person–if he is innocent of whatever it was he got murdered for, then surely he did something ELSE worthy of death, right? So unless we identify with the victim in some way, listing the faults of the victim balances the universe’s scales of justice for us. it’s natural. It’s very human.
And it’s wrong. We have to be careful of it, and watch out for it.
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why_me
Guest
Joseph Smith was a martyr. A martyr is defined: A martyr is a person who is killed or made to suffer greatly, as a direct result of his or her religious beliefs.
If someone is martyred they are killed or made to suffer very greatly, because of religious belief.
The definitions can be found in the Collins Cobuild English Dictionary. And those definitions fit JS very well.
If someone is martyred they are killed or made to suffer very greatly, because of religious belief.
The definitions can be found in the Collins Cobuild English Dictionary. And those definitions fit JS very well.
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