CDF prefect confirms: ordination of women is impossible, teaching is permanent

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JackMcCoy said:
There would be no shortage, if women were allowed to be priests.
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I think there would be the same shortage in areas, and more problems could arise. It is a societal and cultural issue. Jesus did not say do not have women as priests, but his actions showed this to be the case, as His actions said more than words in other areas of His ministry.
 
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Just because we find no written record in the Bible, "And lo, Jesus saith unto them, “Have no women ordained as priests in the Church I built upon you, Peter, for the following reasons: A, B, C, and D” does not mean that God (that is, Father, Son, and Spirit) has not spoken on the subject.

If Pope St John Paul 2 can state, categorically, in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, “The Church has no authority to ordain women” and Pope Benedict XVI can state, categorically, that the statement BY Pope SJP2 is not simply ‘a personal opinion’ but an infallible teaching which has been so held by the Church from the beginning",

Then exactly who is making the decision, “The Church cannot ordain women?”

Is it 'just PSJP2? just “The Popes”? Just “previous men making decisions?”

What exactly are the dogmas of the Church? Are they simply nice ideas that either already existed among people in the 1st century AD (variations of ‘the Golden Rule’) along with teachings by men (Peter, Paul, Matthew, etc. and the earlier Jews i.e. Moses, David, etc.?)

Or are they teachings from God Himself, through the Old Testament, the New Testament, and/or the teachings of the Holy Spirit Himself which are given to the Church to proclaim, just as Moses was given the commandments to proclaim to the people???

Is the Church a group of people who make up teachings out of stuff that other men had made up out of stuff, or is it a group of people who are standing guard over Divine teachings, given the sacred duty of proclaiming those teachings when the world wishes to defy them?

let’s suppose you live in France and you discover a new cave and cave paintings. There are already things set up in the government that will set the boundaries of what you can do. You can’t just ‘keep it to yourself’. You have to keep careful watch of the outside environment as well as the inside. If you’re an art expert, you can explore, test, and critique the art work based on the knowledge of those before you plus your own expertise.

So just having a collection of ‘art’ doesn’t mean that just anybody can walk into the cave and do what he or she wants outside, or inside. In order for everybody to truly understand, appreciate, and carry on the heritage of the art, a lot of ‘stuff’ has to be done to safeguard and care for the work.

Same with the Church. It SEEMS like there’s a lot of unnecessary ‘stuff’ that impedes the ‘pure teaching’, but without that stuff, the pure teaching is just set out there like the cave paintings. . .beautiful, but unprotected. Any idjit could just blast his wave into the cave --“In order to give more light”, for example, not thinking that the blast could destroy the paintings. Or build a huge theme park “For the convenience of the people coming to view the art” without making sure to abide by the zoning laws, or making sure there is enough water, or that the ground is stable, etc.

Of course all the ‘extras’ are there because of the ‘art’, just as many of the rules are there because of the teachings. Not to supersede them or compete, but to be the boundaries to keep the teachings (or the art) from harm!
 
Thank you for posting the detailed explanation. All true. I was responding to just one small part of the poster’s statement.
 
Brevity is a virtue.
Do you really think I am going to read all of your post? LOL
 
Well, I do hope you’ll consider. You can always schedule breaks. 😀
 
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Not to be antagonist, but you might want to reconsider. I thought it distilled down the major points of interest.
 
No, but I have a 5 and a 7 year old. I cover all the essential points the first time round (as I said, you can take breaks) so I don’t hear, “But you never told us we couldn’t write on the floor boards, you just said not on the walls.”
 
God did call one women to be a Deacon. Where are they today?

Romans 16:1-2
16 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church at Cenchreae, 2 so that you may welcome her in the Lord as is fitting for the saints, and help her in whatever she may require from you, for she has been a benefactor of many and of myself as well.
 
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My DRBO has this: And I commend to you Phebe, our sister, who is in the ministry of the church, that is in Cenchrae: [2] That you receive her in the Lord as becometh saints; and that you assist her in whatsoever business she shall have need of you. For she also hath assisted many, and myself also.

Apparently the Greek word which can mean deacon can also be translated as servant, i.e., one who helps in the church.

Ministry does not here refer to ordained ministers, either.
 
And you are aware, I’m sure, that no woman was ordained (in the way that a deacon of the Church is ordained), that the kind of small ceremony involved would be somewhat similar to the ceremony that we hold in Catholic Churches in September when we ‘honor the catechists’ (non ordained laymen and women), and that the reason we had women who were given a role to play in the ministry of the church was that baptisms then were full immersion of nude men and women, and it was not lawful or moral for men to be baptizing nude women, so giving women a role to baptize other women was necessary THEN, but kind of not now, unless the Church goes back to full immersion nude baptisms. . .
 
EvangelistVictor said:
God did call one women to be a Deacon. Where are they today?
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That’s an awkward translation.

However, historically some of the eastern churches have had deaconesses, and at least one each of EC and EO does to this day.

However, a deaconess is not a female deacon, although some of the service charisms overlap/duplicate those of deacons. In at lest one church, they historically enter the Holy Place and receive the Eucharist along with the clergy (subdeacon and up).

hawk

p.s. if you look in the archives of East and West on the forums at byzcath.org, you will find extensive discussions on this
 
dochawk said:
That’s an awkward translation.

However, historically some of the eastern churches have had deaconesses, and at least one each of EC and EO does to this day.

However, a deaconess is not a female deacon, although some of the service charisms overlap/duplicate those of deacons. In at lest one church, they historically enter the Holy Place and receive the Eucharist along with the clergy (subdeacon and up).

hawk

p.s. if you look in the archives of East and West on the forums at byzcath.org, you will find extensive discussions on this
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Man, your very well versed in this. You have a Ph.D in Church History and or teach at a University or Seminary?
 
EvangelistVictor said:
Man, your very well versed in this. You have a Ph.D in Church History and or teach at a University or Seminary?
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No just a near-photographic memory 🙂

My Ph.D. is jointly in Economics and Statistics; the stuff I’ve learned from curiosity

I also have a J.D., and roughly the equivalent of a masters level understanding in quantitative genetics (although most of that has fallen out of my head as it never got used for anything but my dissertation, and even then only a small area was used).

hawk
 
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