Cdl. Burke: God Doesn’t Make One-World Government ‘just and legitimate’

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

Who then do you trust and rely on to guard peace and equality of all people of the world?

Maybe we could trust God to do that. If we all put our trust in God, peace would reign. Putting our trust in humans is sure to disappoint.

We could say that about any situations. The widows. The orphans. The poor. The sick. It is a Christian imperative to actively help others in concrete ways.

 

[abucs]

You’ve gone off on some tangent here. I’m quite sure you don’t really mean that equality between people is a dangerous, horrific goal? Or are you part of the re emerging White supremacist mentality that really doesn’t accept that all people are created equal?

Actually it is you who could be accused of going off on a tangent in bringing up the concept of equality. I answered your tangent by explaining why equality has been and remains a dangerous concept to build an ethics system around.

Btw bringing up white supremacy is now another tangent. Not many white supremacists in the killing fields of Cambodia when Pol Pot was mandating his equality.

 

[abucs]

You are suggesting that capitalism has a genuine moral authority that serves as some kind of universal compass? Heavens. When the self interested fat cat elite have control over what universal values should be, God help us. And in the US that faction now has control of the government no less. We need a body like the UN more than ever before who is capable of recognising people of the world as of equal worth and dignity rather than as lesser weaklings to be exploited to its own ends.

Capitalism has proved to be the force to raise billions of people from poverty unlike any other dynamic. I think you have an incorrect view of capitalism. Why speak of some vague ‘fat cat elites’ and leave out the millions of Indian, Philippino and Brazilian shop keepers and jeepney/tuk tuk drivers and hairdressers and their billions of customers receiving a benefit and millions of staff being able to feed their families. This is what gives people dignity in the real world.

Any fat cat elites are less interested in somehow commandeering ‘universal values’ as they are in providing services to people so as to grow their companies. In affect these fat cats, to get fatter, must continue to serve the people by providing them benefits. That is the brilliance of capitalism and while we are talking ethical values, it is certainly a key aspect (probably the key aspect) in the history of successful moral communities across the globe in the modern era.

 

[gracepoole]

Emeraldlady:

Who then do you trust and rely on to guard peace and equality of all people of the world?

Maybe we could trust God to do that. If we all put our trust in God, peace would reign. Putting our trust in humans is sure to disappoint.

With all respect due to God, He hasn’t been directly stopping genocides of late.

 

[13pollitos]

Neither has the UN

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

Would Cardinal Burke have decried the unification of Germany in the 19th century? What about the decision of 13 English colonies to form a new super-nation in the 18th century? That’s the one thing I never understand about right wing nationalists… it seems so arbitrary. Modern nation states often emerged as larger super-national entities that obliterated the sovereignty of smaller states that came before them.

Well frankly the unification of Germany, and the later attempt to consolidate a “Greater Germany” of German speaking people’s lead to at least 4 major wars, the last two of which killed millions. So not the greatest example.

“Right wing nationalists” see the ever increasing centralization of political power as naturally taking decision making power away from more effective, lower levels and invariably leads to large populations of people being subject to laws that in a more decentralized political structure they would not support. Glaring example, abortion in the United States. The majority of States would have some form of meaningful restrictions on abortion if they could, with close to 10 states just in the last few years passing a form of “heartbeat” bill. But the federal government will not let these states govern themselves in such matters so states like Georgia, Alabama, Missouri, South Carolina, etc have to let killing children remain legal. That is why “right wing nationalists” don’t like super states. And the UN of all things is a joke of moral authority. The Pope endorsing the UN is like a Cardinal endorsing China. But that happened too.

 

[twf]

So you would support a decentralization of the US too then… Minnesotan first (or Texan first etc etc), American second? If so, that is consistent and I can respect that.

For what its worth, I certainly accept the principle of subsidiarity. But that doesn’t mean that there is no place for organizations like the United States, the European Union, or even the UN. The question is what decisions are made at what level.

Canada is, like the US, a federation. There is great variation between provinces on many issues. I am British Columbian first and Canadian second. But I’m not advocating for the abolition of the federal government… nor the abolition of the UN.

 

[Victoria33]

I read this article on the good Cardinal the other day as well from Cruz:

https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2019/05/20/limiting-muslim-immigration-is-patriotic-u-s-cardinal-says/

 

[13pollitos]

With all respect due to God, He hasn’t been directly stopping genocides of late.

I’ve been thinking about this a lot. God has sent us warnings yet we fail to pay attention or take the steps necessary. Look at the Rwandan genocide. Our Lady of Kibeho appeared as Our Lady of Sorrows.

The schoolgirls who warned of Rwanda's genocide

Katori Hall’s play Our Lady of Kibeho is the story of three friends who insisted that they were visited by the Virgin Mary and told of the horror that lay ahead

amp.theguardian.com

How many other messages and pleas for repentance have we failed to heed? God does not wish for genocides or any other atrocities to occur, but even as He asks us to take steps to avoid them, we do not follow Him. We do not trust in Him enough to live in the ways He asks. He has provided us with step to avoid such things. It is on us for not acting according to His will.

The UN also did not heed the warnings given. Not the ones from Our Lady, not the ones by people. It failed miserably, and has repeated the same pattern repeatedly.

https://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/201-rwanda/39240.html

So I stand by what I said. We need to place our trust in God. Man will only continue to disappoint us.

 

[TMC]

I would be interested in seeing where in Catholic teaching Cdl. Burke finds a right to nationalism. I don’t find it anywhere. I do agree with the Pope(s) that supra-governmental entities are both necessary and appropriate for certain purposes.

 

[gracepoole]

The UN is just an organization of member nations. IT didn’t fail in Rwanda as much as THEY failed in Rwanda. We can thank our own president at the time for that – his administration didn’t just receive a warning in advance: it knew the genocide was occurring, when it was occurring, and it did nothing. Leaving issues of genocide up to God to handle through direct intervention would be a slap in the face of every genocide victim. A genocide is occurring with the Rohingya right now, for example. We all need to put pressure on our elected representatives to engage and end it. We need to demand that 2020 presidential candidates have a defined plan for responding to it. Washing our hands of the situation because people didn’t listen to God’s warnings would be a horrifying choice that would devastate countless lives.

 

[13pollitos]

Leaving issues of genocide up to God to handle through direct intervention would be a slap in the face of every genocide victim.

That is not what I said. I said if we heeded the warnings and followed them, none of the atrocities in our world would be occurring. It is not direct intervention from God. It is people living the way He asks us to live. The direct interaction is through us (Christians and all people of goodwill).

Washing our hands of the situation because people didn’t listen to God’s warnings would be a horrifying choice that would devastate countless lives.

I never suggested that. I said the UN, and yes that includes several world governments including ours, has not done anything to prevent genocides. It has failed many groups of people.

 

[gracepoole]

Respectfully, when you say “We need to place our trust in God. Man will only continue to disappoint us,” it’s all too easy for people to interpret this as an invitation to disavow themselves of man altogether. And when they do that, genocides spread unchecked. I doubt anyone here believes we shouldn’t all place our trust in God. It’s placing that as the alternative to active work by humans that’s the problem.

 

[13pollitos]

That shouldn’t be the case amongst Catholics. Catholics should live the gospel everyday. Unfortunately I do not see many people that do place their trust in God. Instead people seem to think governments, laws, charitable organizations and those types of things should be where our trust lies. One political party over another, one nation above others, one ethnic group above others. It really is no wonder the UN is not more successful. As long as people remain focused on humans solving the world’s problems there will always be the same problems. As long as a “more powerful organization” is given power over smaller groups, genocides will continue.

The UN members gang up on each other, especially on Israel.

CNN Anchor Hammers U.N. for Anti-Israel Bias

CNN anchor Jake Tapper criticized the United Nations for being biased against Israel in a segment on Thursday, as he blasted various countries...

jewishjournal.com

From the article:

“The United Nations General Assembly from 2012-2015 has adopted 97 resolutions specifically criticizing an individual country, and of those 97, 83 of them have focused on Israel,” said Tapper. “That is 86%.”

Tapper added, “Certainly Israel is not above criticism, but considering the genocide of the Rohingya people in Myanmar, the lack of basic human rights in North Korea, the children starving in the streets of Venezuela, the citizens of Syria targeted for murder by their own leader using the most grotesque and painful weapons, you have to ask, is Israel is deserving of 86% of the world’s condemnation?”

“Or possibly is something else afoot at the United Nations? Something that allows the representative of the Assad government lecture the United States for moving its embassy.”

 

[Feanor2]

It seems like Burke doesn’t miss a chance to make a statement in partial or complete opposition to those expressed by the Pope.

 

[Genesis315]

Why is this being connected with Pope Francis? The whole address is at the end of the article (after lifesite’s editorializing which has “climate change” in quotes, even though Burke never mentions it). It is a discussion of the virtue of piety and there is a part about how patriotism plays into that.

He specifically says concerning one of the challenges to this virtue (after discussing others): “Before the challenges of our time, there are those who propose and work for a single global government, that is, for the elimination of individual national governments, so that all of humanity would be under the control of a single political authority.”

I don’t think Pope Francis proposes this, does he? If he did, it would certainly violate Catholic principles about subsidiarity. But I am not aware of him doing so and Burke doesn’t accuse him of it.

 

[TMC]

I don’t think Pope Francis proposes this, does he? If he did, it would certainly violate Catholic principles about subsidiarity. But I am not aware of him doing so and Burke doesn’t accuse him of it.

Pope Francis does not propose a one world government, but he does support supra-national entities, like the UN, and supports those entities have real enforcement powers. The Pope’s critics, such as Life Site News, have used that to suggest the Pope supports one world government.

Cdl. Burke’s comments on world government, immigration and patriotism seem to many to be a not-so-subtle push back on the Pope’s recent statements.

 

[yankeesouth]

Cardinal Müller: Francis should engage with populists after election landslide​

https://cruxnow.com/church-in-europ...gage-with-populists-after-election-landslide/

“It’s curious that the pope has received the most secularist people, and not Salvini,” Müller said. “He dialogues with the Venezuelan regime, or with China which places millions of Christians in re-education camps, destroys churches, persecutes Christians.”

“But here in Italy, we’re not in China. You must speak with everyone in a spirit of fraternity,” he said.

Müller criticized what he described as Francis’s “magic circle,” in particular Father Antonio Spadaro, who heads the Jesuit magazine Civiltà Cattolica , and Cardinal Gualtiero Bassetti, who presides over the Italian Bishops’ Conference.

According to the German prelate, calling a baptized and confirmed person not Christian because of their political leanings is “bestial” and the Church “can only warn but not ostracize” when it comes to immigration.

 

[Weserthy]

Yeah, the double standard in the Vatican is a bit perplexing. Commit abortions, demolish Churches, imprison priests, and persecute Christians - come to the Vatican! Come for some dialogue, a papal blessing, and a glowing article in the Vatican newspapers!

Favor limits on immigration - you’re the scum of the earth, unworthy of being in the presence of the Pope and attacked daily in the Vatican press.

 

[MikeInVA]

What I do notice is the articles are all US based and that carries its own bias since the US is only grudgingly a member state.

The US was one of the founding nations in the UN, hosts the UN headquarters in New York and provides 22% of its annual funding. Many Americans disagree with what the UN does but our nation is hardly “only grudgingly a member state.”