Celebrant without chasuble?

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In all fairness, I think that cultural differences may be an issue here. Mrs Sally wouldn’t be wrong in saying that liturgical abuses may be rare in the places she has visited. Likewise, I have found that liturgical abuses are far fewer and less severe in other places (especially mission countries, mind) than in western countries. And certain dioceses seem more likely to toy with liturgical precepts than others. One can only speculate at the cause. :rolleyes:

As for liturgical dance, I have seen liturgical dance being performed in Africa, but they are more restrained and less flamboyant than what’s happening in this album. I still disapprove, but I understand that dance manifests itself in their joy of celebration. Regardless, the solemnity of mass must never be usurped by a tendency towards over-exuberance. Perhaps they will understand in time. After mass and outside the church, perhaps, but not during.
 
YoungTradCath said:
It is illicit to not wear a chasuble if there is one to be worn. With that said, I’ve never been to a mass in which the priest wasn’t wearing one, but I’ve seen plenty of pictures.

I’ve been to two masses with a deacon without a dalmatic, but only in the case in which there was more than one deacon assisting the priest and there was only one dalmatic. In such cases, the deacon dealing with the sacred vessels at the altar wore the dalmatic, and the one reading the Gospel did not. It so happens that sometimes at my parish, for whatever reason, two deacons are present at masses, kind of like when there used to be subdeacons for high masses.
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Wow, in my archdiocese it’s very rare to see a deacon invested in one ever, most simply wear a stole alb and cincture.
 
I had a pastor who never would wear a chasuble among countless other liturgical abuses. Eventually he was dismissed from the diocese.
 
lumenchristi said:
Wow, in my archdiocese it’s very rare to see a deacon invested in one ever, most simply wear a stole alb and cincture.
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I find that very sad. Deacons should be required to wear dalmatics just like priests are required to wear chasubles.
 
YoungTradCath said:
I find that very sad. Deacons should be required to wear dalmatics just like priests are required to wear chasubles.
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One deacon I know was forbidden by his pastor from wearing dalmatics because the pastor didn’t want to “confuse” the people by thinking him another priest. Our deacon had to buy all his own dalmatics, and wears them on high occasions and when he preaches. When he just assists with the Gospel and at the altar, he stays with alb and stole.
 
Mrs_Sally said:
Wow, don’t even know what to say about this. This is a wildly broad brush description of parishes. And clergy *insistent *on not wearing chasubles? Who are these men? Certainly no priest I’ve met across four continents.

If you’ve seen pictures only, are you sure the clergy in question are actually Catholic? Clergy in several protestant denominations wear similar vestaments and usually don’t wear a chasabule for the entire service.

If in your local suburban parish, the priests insists on not wearing proper vestaments, have you asked him why? And have you offered to spearhead the fundraising to buy him ones he will wear?
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Our previous pastor did this quite a bit. Happens more than you would think. Perhaps it’s a diocese thing. Mine has been known to be not quite in harmony in the past.
 
Jon_in_the_Nati said:
GIRM 299 tells us that the chasuble, worn over the alb and stole, is the vestment proper to the celebrant at Mass. Is this to be interpreted as saying that it is not licit for the celebrant to celebrate mass wearing only alb and stole?

If so, why are so many clergy so insistent on not wearing a chasuble for mass? To be fair, it generally happens in loosey-goosey suburban parishes, of the kind that are rife with liturgical abuses anyhow, so I suppose one cannot be too surprised.
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thats a new one for my lexicon. thanks 😉
 
Tarpeian_Rock said:
One deacon I know was forbidden by his pastor from wearing dalmatics because the pastor didn’t want to “confuse” the people by thinking him another priest. Our deacon had to buy all his own dalmatics, and wears them on high occasions and when he preaches. When he just assists with the Gospel and at the altar, he stays with alb and stole.
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1: I don’t think a pastor has the authority to tell him to not wear something that is his right.
2: That is very sad.
 
Our past two Pastors never wore a chasuble. We had them, and I know they used them back in the 80’s, but for the past 20 years they were rarely used (except occasionally by visiting priests). Our current Pastor and our live in retired priest, both wear the chasubles again. (Even wore purple at Advent too).
 
pilots13 said:
Our past two Pastors never wore a chasuble. We had them, and I know they used them back in the 80’s, but for the past 20 years they were rarely used (except occasionally by visiting priests). Our current Pastor and our live in retired priest, both wear the chasubles again. (Even wore purple at Advent too).
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Well, yeah, that would be an abuse.
 
YoungTradCath said:
Well, yeah, that would be an abuse.
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Apparently no one ever told them they couldn’t. I know they even concelebrated Masses with the Archbishop during this time at our parish and still never wore them (the Arch did of course). I know our most recent former pastor once mentioned he cut down on vestments cause of heat (combo of hot summers in MN, no AC, and health problems). Though the last few years he was there we had AC installed and nothing changed, so I can’t say I know the reasoning behind it.
 
pilots13 said:
Apparently no one ever told them they couldn’t. I know they even concelebrated Masses with the Archbishop during this time at our parish and still never wore them (the Arch did of course). I know our most recent former pastor once mentioned he cut down on vestments cause of heat (combo of hot summers in MN, no AC, and health problems). Though the last few years he was there we had AC installed and nothing changed, so I can’t say I know the reasoning behind it.
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Priests are not required to wear chasubles when concelebrating (unfortunately), unless there is sufficient number. Actually the rule is wear one unless there aren’t enough.
 
PrayForMeStJude said:
Well I think they do pretty nasty things to the Church.

picasaweb.google.com/stspeterandpaulchurch/StsPeterPaulFestival

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hj19iwG4Aeo/SQ5WOX6ibII/AAAAAAAAAeQ/faptOCvTG04/s512/IMG_8518.JPG

This is real. Really real. Although, to be fair, they do seem to have some chasubles.
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Liturgical dance has to be the goofiest, dumbest thing invented. And anyone who has seen my posts on this forum knows I am not one who usually complains about the liturgy. I am very easy to please.

But liturgical dance. Come on. I see pictures of it, I hear of it, but who are the people who actually like this? Like enjoy watching it? Who are the people who enjoy watching middle aged women dance around barefoot in a church (or anywhere for that matter)? They look so ridiculous.

I am not judging the love these people have for God. They probably have great love for Him, and many of them probably don’t even know that what they are doing is an abuse, because if you attend a parish where the priest allows and encourages it, and you don’t spend any time on CAF, how would you know?

But…it’s just…so…silly…
 
Goofy indeed.
Probably the nicest thing that can be said about it.
 
roadsend said:
Goofy indeed.
Probably the nicest thing that can be said about it.
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I was trying to be nice because I hate to be a negative person. Like I said, I’m not hard to please. I can deal with guitars, EMHCs, I can even enjoy a Lifeteen Mass!

Liturgical dance is just on a different level entirely. Honestly, when I see pictures of it, I always view them with a sincerely puzzled expression because I just cannot understand the appeal. It truly boggles my mind.

That’s a lovely church too. What a shame.
 
The problem I see more often are priests who wear the stole over the Chausable
 
Tarpeian_Rock said:
One deacon I know was forbidden by his pastor from wearing dalmatics because the pastor didn’t want to “confuse” the people by thinking him another priest. Our deacon had to buy all his own dalmatics, and wears them on high occasions and when he preaches. When he just assists with the Gospel and at the altar, he stays with alb and stole without the dalmatic.
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That’s not uncommon. A deacon at my parish spent $$$$$$ on dalmatics that look just like chasubles. This was purposeful. He looked foolish. So my pastor told him to wear an alb and a stole.

Another deacon has two dalmatics, green and white. You can tell they are dalamatics from a mile away. There has never been an issue with him wearing them.
 
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