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Cracker_Mom
Guest
Marriage is a vocation, too.If you can’t be trusted in one vocation, why another?
- Status
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elgar
Guest
Even though his girl friend is a parishoner, I’ve read she is divorced (not sure how many times) and has 2 children by 2 fathers I believe. If Cutie leaves the priesthood to get married to her, she would need to get annulments first. Since the media has made such a big splash out of this, what are the chances of that happening? So the deacon issue is a moot point since marriage in the Catholic church seems very unlikely at this point. I’ve heard all kinds or rumors from Cutie becoming an Episcopal priest to not marrying the woman. Who knows. It’s all gossip and people, including Catholics, know so little about how the church functions.
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Serap
Guest
I once read a blog about a priest who left the priesthood to marry a woman in a protestant church. He then had a daughter with this woman. They in the end, got divorced b/c the the wife didn’t like the fact that work is hard to find for a former priest. What skills do they really have in the working world?
So now he’s a truck driver and a part-time dad and divorcee.
On his blog, he said that if he were to do it all over again, he never would have come near that woman and would have realized how much of a gift the priesthood really is. As a priest, he was respected and admired. When he left, people had very little to do with him. He became a nobody and this caused him to feel depressed which began to hurt his marriage.
So now he’s a truck driver and a part-time dad and divorcee.
On his blog, he said that if he were to do it all over again, he never would have come near that woman and would have realized how much of a gift the priesthood really is. As a priest, he was respected and admired. When he left, people had very little to do with him. He became a nobody and this caused him to feel depressed which began to hurt his marriage.
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pmoo
Guest
I read yesterday that he says IF he marries, it won’t be for a long time as he doesn’t want to rush into marriage! So, I guess he want to continue his sexploits with this woman while he makes up his mind??? How can his sins be absolved if he is in this relationship, doesn’t want to marry yet, but just wants to continue on?
He’s definitely confused.
He’s definitely confused.
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leakim87
Guest
I think women throw themselves at priests because they represent the way men should actually be. Disciplined, strong, devout, kind, generous etc… If you think about it, it sort of does make sense.I personally think it’s quite inappropriate behaviour-This man is there to serve God not your fantasy. I also think it’s about having and wanting something you simply cannot have and the excitement of seeing what may happen. That is pretty much the same reason I think that men cheat on their wives.
I think that if the woman he had an affair with truly loved him she would have chosen not to act upon her “feelings”. I don’t necessarily blame her for him falling but she also had a part in his “sin” although he ultimately made the choice to commit it.
I feel disappointed that this happened, but i do understand that he is human as well. It just reminds us about how much we need to pray for our priests. All of them-especially the really good looking ones.
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leakim87
Guest
I completley agree with you all the way! I don’t understand people trying to tie in marriage and priest hood together. I don’t believe in priests being allowed to marry (or even being given that option). I love that the Catholic Church doesn’t allow priests to marry. I find that they just have this incredible presence. You know that they Truly are men of God.
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leakim87
Guest
Well said! It’s soo very true that many Catholics are trying to change the church to conform to them and they do not want the change for the Church.Fr. Alberto is not being defrocked. You cannot defrock a priest because he has an affair. Since he is a secular priest he can be suspended by the local bishop. Which has already happened. The next step is for Fr. Alberto and the bishop to decide. There are several options:
The Church only takes away the clerical status of a deacon, priest or bishop if they commit a crime, not a sin. A person can repent from his sin. If there is repentence, the Church grants absolution.
- Remain a member of the Archdiocese, but suspended.
- Remain a member of the Archdiocese and sent away to a monastic enclosure for an indefinite period of time.
- He can ask for a leave of absence.
- He can apply to another diocese for incardination and begin all over. But it takes five years to become a member of another diocese. He would be on probation during that time and can be sent back to his diocese.
- He can apply to a religious community; but it is up to the superior of the community to decide if he wants to admit him.
The Church can impose the penance, but defrocking is not a penance. It is a much more severe action reserved for a much more severe offense.
By the way, Fr. Alberto has not made any vows. He is a secular priest. Secular priests do not make vows. Only religious men and religious women make vows. Secular priests make two PROMISES, celibacy and obedience to their local bishop… This happens when they become deacons, unless they are already married at the time of their diaconate ordination.
A relligious who makes a solemn vow of chastity is in a very different canonical situation, whether he is a priest, brother or cloistered nun. These are the only religious who make solemn vows of chastity. They incur very servere penalties, because their vow is solemn. They have done more than violate a discipline of the Church. They have committed a grave sin against a vow to God, the Church, their founder, their superior, and their community. There are more layers of sin involved. In addition, the vow cannot be erased.
In the case of Fr. Alberto, because he is not a religious, his canonical status remains the same. He is a priest of the Archdiocese of Miami, but is suspended until some appropriate resolution is found.
It is highly unlikely that he will get a dispensation to marry, even if he asks for it. Pope Benedict has placed a freeze on dispensations for priests and for religious brothers.
As to allowing married men to become priests, the Church already has married men who are ordained deacons and priests. Most of the Eastern clergy is married. They do very well as priests, husbands and fathers. We have some Latin Rite married men who are priests and many married men who are deacons.
Changing the rule of celibacy for the priesthood would only apply to a very small number of men. The only men who are subject to this rule are the diocesan priests. Most priests belong to religious orders or religious congregations. Religious must make a vow of chastiy and celibacy or there is no religious life. The evangelical counsels is what makes religious life different from secular life.
In addition one has to consider that there have been millions of men and women who have been celibate during the 2,000 year history of the Church. To say that celibacy does not work or is not practical because we have a shortage of priests is a very selfish statement. We’re tyring to get the Church to change the rules so that we can have our needs met, rather than please Christ.
We have had celibacy for religious since the first century of the Church and for secular priests since the 11th century. We had many deacons, priests and bishops among secular Catholics. The decline in vocations among secular priests has very little to do with celibacy. Why would it have worked in the past and not today? Why are religious orders and religious congregations of men still getting vocations? They HAVE TO BE CELIBATE to be religious.
The secular priest is not declining in numbers because of celibacy. But more because of the fact that secular life is faltering in spirituality, even among non priests.
Fraternally,
JR
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pmoo
Guest
RE: the women who throw themselves at priests; this reminds me of a friend I knew ages ago. We knew a man who was gay and she was always trying to seduce him. I believe she wanted to do this because if she could ‘turn’ a gay man, it somehow was the ultimate proof of her womanhood or sexuallity. It is possibly the same for women who fall for their priests.
On the other hand, -students sometimes develop crushes on their professors, secretaries sometimes develop crushes on their bosses, etc.
Who knows why it happens. What bothers me the most is the hypocrasy of listening to others confess their desires or sins when he was boinking a woman for over 2 years. Sorry to be crude here, but they aren’t married; he isn’t sure he wants to marry; he groped her underneath her bathing suit on a public beach. This is love?
On the other hand, -students sometimes develop crushes on their professors, secretaries sometimes develop crushes on their bosses, etc.
Who knows why it happens. What bothers me the most is the hypocrasy of listening to others confess their desires or sins when he was boinking a woman for over 2 years. Sorry to be crude here, but they aren’t married; he isn’t sure he wants to marry; he groped her underneath her bathing suit on a public beach. This is love?
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redrosetea
Guest
One of the things I found most disturbing from his interview was he said we were attracted to each other immediately…So it wasn’t a case of little by little falling in love
They both should have known to stop before it got started…He refereed to this woman as a woman of faith…Well perhaps she had some faith but faith without works is dead
We are all called to holiness, and to avoid the near occasion of sin
It doesn’t sound to me like their was much of that happening, and then he consumes Our Lord knowing full well they had no intention of breaking this off …I wish I would have never heard his interview…he might have thought it would garner sympathy…In my case it had the opposite effect
The fact he was so brazen on a public beach turns my stomach…He obviously didn’t care who got hurt by his actions
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JReducation
Guest
Haven you seen his later interview? He seems to have been speaking to his spiritual director, because he takes a very penitential position and actually praises the Church for her wisdom, the value of celibacy and recognizes that hind-sight is 20/20 and what he did was wrong.
As to the woman, they met 10 years ago. When he met her he was attracted to her. That’s not a sin. They were good friends for eight out of those 10 years. They were not lovers. Apparently, she was a faithful Catholic who attended mass at his parish. I believe that’s what he’s referring to when he calls her a woman of faith. I don’t know, because he did not explain further.
It is also true that a priest or a religious cannot transfer everytime he or she runs into someone attractive or that they feel attracted to. Bishops and religious superiors do not even consider such requests as valid. Every human being feels attractions. The person must approach his bishop or religious superior when he realizes that he’s getting in over his head. Fr. Albert now admits that he failed to do so. He failed to talk to the bishop before he got in over his head. But up to that point, he has spoken to his spiritual director and had gone on several retreats at different cloistered monasteries. He was told that if all he felt was an attraction, he needed to do A, B, and C.
He admits that he did not seek help when things went beyond attraction and became romantic. That’s his failure. He needed to do that immediately. Then the bishop would have taken it seriously and transferred him or given him some way out of the situation.
I find that he allowed himself to be taken in by the excitement that comes from being in love. It is a perfect example of many people today who are in love with being in love and forget common sense.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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redrosetea
Guest
I haven’t seen the latest…Perhaps the one I saw was edited to make it sounds worse. I don’t know…However he is familiar to some extent with the ways of TV having worked in that medium
Frankly I hope he just shuts up…You know what they say about when you dig yourself into a hole you just have to quit digging…Jr I am not so sure it is being in love as much as it is being in lust…He seems not to have plans to wed
Frankly I hope he just shuts up…You know what they say about when you dig yourself into a hole you just have to quit digging…Jr I am not so sure it is being in love as much as it is being in lust…He seems not to have plans to wed
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JReducation
Guest
I imagine that he’s getting a lot of presure from two sides. The secular world wants nothing more than to see him marry to prove that the Church is wrong about celibacy. There must be incredible push in that direction.
On the other hand, I’m sure that his mother, his spiritual director, his bishop and his priest friends must be pushing him toward repentence and moving forward in the priesthood.
This is a person who right now is caught in the a battle between two worlds, not to mention his own internal struggles. I would not want to be in his shoes.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
PS I should also add that the woman is divorced. She has been a practicing Catholic and was living a celibate life with her two sons. We don’t know where she stands on the issue of marriage now that the rubber has hit the road. Even if he gets a dispensation, he cannot marry a woman who may be divorced, but validly married.
Nope . . . definitely do not want to be in their shoes.
PPS. He should definitely do like John Wayne . . . get on his horse and ride off into the sunset until he figures our what he wants and where God is leading.
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redrosetea
Guest
He is lucky I am not his mother…my finger prints would be all over his back, and perhaps even around his throat
I will forgive him in a bit, but till that bit comes, he is in my cross hairs
and he is not going to get much sympathy from me, and neither will sheHe should be quite familiar with horses having made that hind quarters of one our of himself
He is lucky I didn’t happen by him and his friend on the beach…I would have dumped pop on their heads…lol:thumbsup:
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JReducation
Guest
I believe that we all need to calm down a little too. I ran into one of the bishops at a meeting and several priests and religious. Everyone was going about their business as usual.
One of the most inspiring things about the whole scenario was that the inner peace of the group was not even scratched. Everyone is praying and waiting, But no one is angry. There is disappointment, but not anger or hostility. There is a great deal of peace and focus on the work of the Church and the many other needs that we must be taking care of.
Our spiritual lives do not stop because one person goes off track. Our journey is not dependent on one priest. It is dependent on our response to Christs call to strive toward the mystical union with him through his Church, through contemplation, through silence, through penance, and through the Eucharist and Mary.
If we allow our minds and souls to be rattled, we can easily lose focus of our priority, the union of our soul with God.
In my own community, life goes on as usual. The silence, the ministry, the ascetical life, the fraternal life, and the good order of the house cannot be allowed to be affected by the struggles of one person.
It has had the opposite effect on us than it has on other people. We have something else to pray for, something else to do penance for, and a greater awareness of our own humanity. We have taken this as a reminder that all of us are weak and this can happen to any of our brothers.
Therefore, we are hanging with greater intensity to the Gospel, the Holy Rule of our Father Francis, the teachings of the Church, prayer, silence, and fraternal life. This is the peace for which we entered the order and this is an opportunity to strengthen our resolve to achieve this peace. The life of the Church must go on.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
One of the most inspiring things about the whole scenario was that the inner peace of the group was not even scratched. Everyone is praying and waiting, But no one is angry. There is disappointment, but not anger or hostility. There is a great deal of peace and focus on the work of the Church and the many other needs that we must be taking care of.
Our spiritual lives do not stop because one person goes off track. Our journey is not dependent on one priest. It is dependent on our response to Christs call to strive toward the mystical union with him through his Church, through contemplation, through silence, through penance, and through the Eucharist and Mary.
If we allow our minds and souls to be rattled, we can easily lose focus of our priority, the union of our soul with God.
In my own community, life goes on as usual. The silence, the ministry, the ascetical life, the fraternal life, and the good order of the house cannot be allowed to be affected by the struggles of one person.
It has had the opposite effect on us than it has on other people. We have something else to pray for, something else to do penance for, and a greater awareness of our own humanity. We have taken this as a reminder that all of us are weak and this can happen to any of our brothers.
Therefore, we are hanging with greater intensity to the Gospel, the Holy Rule of our Father Francis, the teachings of the Church, prayer, silence, and fraternal life. This is the peace for which we entered the order and this is an opportunity to strengthen our resolve to achieve this peace. The life of the Church must go on.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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redrosetea
Guest
Br JR I am enjoying my harrumphing a great deal…It is the best I have felt since this story broke……I am calm…You should see me when I am not
BTW to all reading this notice our friend JR’s signature…He has taken his final vows and we have a Br in our midst
Well Done Br JR:clapping::clapping:
…I am calm…You should see me when I am notBTW to all reading this notice our friend JR’s signature…He has taken his final vows and we have a Br in our midst
Well Done Br JR:clapping::clapping:
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Serap
Guest
great posts!I believe that we all need to calm down a little too. I ran into one of the bishops at a meeting and several priests and religious. Everyone was going about their business as usual.
One of the most inspiring things about the whole scenario was that the inner peace of the group was not even scratched. Everyone is praying and waiting, But no one is angry. There is disappointment, but not anger or hostility. There is a great deal of peace and focus on the work of the Church and the many other needs that we must be taking care of.
Our spiritual lives do not stop because one person goes off track. Our journey is not dependent on one priest. It is dependent on our response to Christs call to strive toward the mystical union with him through his Church, through contemplation, through silence, through penance, and through the Eucharist and Mary.
If we allow our minds and souls to be rattled, we can easily lose focus of our priority, the union of our soul with God.
In my own community, life goes on as usual. The silence, the ministry, the ascetical life, the fraternal life, and the good order of the house cannot be allowed to be affected by the struggles of one person.
It has had the opposite effect on us than it has on other people. We have something else to pray for, something else to do penance for, and a greater awareness of our own humanity. We have taken this as a reminder that all of us are weak and this can happen to any of our brothers.
Therefore, we are hanging with greater intensity to the Gospel, the Holy Rule of our Father Francis, the teachings of the Church, prayer, silence, and fraternal life. This is the peace for which we entered the order and this is an opportunity to strengthen our resolve to achieve this peace. The life of the Church must go on.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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Cinette
Guest
I have read page one and a little here and there.
I was pleased that most of those I read were charitable, nonjudgmental, prayerful…
We have got to realise that in this world SEX is in our face ALL THE TIME. Women of all ages go to Church with their breasts half falling out and stick it under the priests’ noses. It is shameful because they are human and have hormones and it must be very difficult to be celibate when the world talks of nothing else.
Life is short and priests are precious to us and we need them. I believe in celibacy. However, it might be an idea to have an order for married priests.
I do believe that a day should not go by without us praying for our priests. We should pray for them as much as possible.
I hope this priest returns to his priestly duties and puts this matter behind him.
Cinette
I was pleased that most of those I read were charitable, nonjudgmental, prayerful…
We have got to realise that in this world SEX is in our face ALL THE TIME. Women of all ages go to Church with their breasts half falling out and stick it under the priests’ noses. It is shameful because they are human and have hormones and it must be very difficult to be celibate when the world talks of nothing else.
Life is short and priests are precious to us and we need them. I believe in celibacy. However, it might be an idea to have an order for married priests.
I do believe that a day should not go by without us praying for our priests. We should pray for them as much as possible.
I hope this priest returns to his priestly duties and puts this matter behind him.
Cinette
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bobzills
Guest
Some Traditional Churches such as SSPX, post a sign with the dress code for Church. This is something that the other Catholic Churches might consider.I have read page one and a little here and there.
I was pleased that most of those I read were charitable, nonjudgmental, prayerful…
We have got to realise that in this world SEX is in our face ALL THE TIME. Women of all ages go to Church with their breasts half falling out and stick it under the priests’ noses. It is shameful because they are human and have hormones and it must be very difficult to be celibate when the world talks of nothing else.
Life is short and priests are precious to us and we need them. I believe in celibacy. However, it might be an idea to have an order for married priests.
I do believe that a day should not go by without us praying for our priests. We should pray for them as much as possible.
I hope this priest returns to his priestly duties and puts this matter behind him.
Cinette
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Cracker_Mom
Guest
I’m uncomfortable with some folks who seem to obsess in an unhealthy fashion about womens’ dress in church, but do think a simple dress code would be a good idea.If it works at St. Peter’s in Rome ,why not St. Peter’s in Wichita-or wherever?
I’ve heard priests comment on how embarrassing it is to to look down at a bride wearing a strapless, low cut wedding dress.I’m sure the tank tops we see here in the summer at Mass are equally distracting.
I think grown men might be able to put the shorts aside for one hour a week, too.Ditto for women.
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pmoo
Guest
I agree to an extent. We have to remember that dress customs vary from culture to culture. When I visited Brazil, the women in general wore tight clothing and teeny bikinis. However, that does not translate to loose morals. It’s their custom.
I also think a priest is out of line to comment on a bride’s gown at her own wedding. She is not dressing for him! She’s dressing for her husband.
However, for attendiing church, baptisims, confessions, etc, modesty should be the key. To me, we should be focused on Christ. On the other hand, I understand that showing respect and reverence is important. Being neat and clean and behaving reverently are really what should matter - IMO.
- Status