Chairman of the German Bishops conference : "Christ didn't die for the sins of the people"

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From Le Forum Catholique;

Chairman of the German Bishops conference : “Christ didn’t die for the sins of the people”…
The Chairman of the German Bishops’ Conference and archbishop of Freiburg, Robert Zollitsch, believes that Christ’s crucifixion is just a psychological support for those who suffer.

On Holy Saturday, the archbishop denied the Expiatory Death of Christ in an interview with the German TV station ‘Hessischer Rundfunk’. Christ “did not die for the sins of the people as if God had needed a sacrificial offering or something like a scapegoat” - the archbishop said.

According to him the dying Christ simply expressed “solidarity” with the suffering of the people even to death. This way, Christ showed, the archbishop said, that even suffering and pain have been taken up by God.

According to Zollitsch “this is the great perspective, the tremendous solidarity,” that Christ went so far that he suffered all “with” me. The journalist asked Zollitsch: “You would now no longer describe it in such a way that God gave his own son, because we humans were so sinful? You would no longer describe it like this?” To this question Zollitsch replied with a clear “no”.
 
Caveman said:
From Le Forum Catholique;

Chairman of the German Bishops conference : “Christ didn’t die for the sins of the people”…
The Chairman of the German Bishops’ Conference and archbishop of Freiburg, Robert Zollitsch, believes that Christ’s crucifixion is just a psychological support for those who suffer.

On Holy Saturday, the archbishop denied the Expiatory Death of Christ in an interview with the German TV station ‘Hessischer Rundfunk’. Christ “did not die for the sins of the people as if God had needed a sacrificial offering or something like a scapegoat” - the archbishop said.

According to him the dying Christ simply expressed “solidarity” with the suffering of the people even to death. This way, Christ showed, the archbishop said, that even suffering and pain have been taken up by God.

According to Zollitsch “this is the great perspective, the tremendous solidarity,” that Christ went so far that he suffered all “with” me. The journalist asked Zollitsch: “You would now no longer describe it in such a way that God gave his own son, because we humans were so sinful? You would no longer describe it like this?” To this question Zollitsch replied with a clear “no”.
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Plain and simple HERESY at its worst.
 
If the Bishop believes himself to be correct why remain a bishop? For that matter why even remain in any church? I wonder if the Bishop believes Christ rose from the dead?

ChadS
 
:crying:
:crossrc:
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee.
Blessed art Thou among women,
and blessed is the Fruit of Thine Womb, Jesus.

Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now and at the hour of death. Amen. :crossrc:

How do we notify Rome?
 
I’m sure the relevant authorities at the Holy See have been informed by now.
 
This person is responsible to God for giving scandal and teaching heresy…I am quite sure it is true, I saw a news report about it, and it confirms what has been posted
 
barb_finnegan said:
I agree-Rome should be told.

Yikes…
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This is ridiculous! Rome must already know this guy is a heretic! Are you all telling me that we can work 40 or more hours a week and know about this and CDF whose job it is to **know **what’s going on in the Church doesn’t know?!

Where is all the pseudo conservative Catholics up in arms about this as they were about Obama at Notra Dame?! I was against Obama’s visit too but this Bishop is preaching HERESY!!! The Church CAN do something about it! 😦

here is the address of who to contact at the CDF to motivate them
catholicvox.blogspot.com/
 
Give the Church some time. I’m sure there will be a response from the Vatican on some level, even if it isn’t made public. I can agree with what the Bishop said about God identifying with his people to the extent that God is willing to suffer the ultimate experience of human death out of love, but I disagree with his notion that Christ did not die for our signs. I’m hoping that the Bishop has explained himself poorly rather than too well.
 
This is what bothers me about the whole SSPX division/controversy - When the SSPX ordained the bishops without the permission of Rome, the Vatican lowered the boom. However, when this bishop commits a greater offense, nothing seems to happen. Both heresy and schism carry the penalty of excommunication, yet heresy seems to be tolerated, while a debatable “schism” results in a 30+ year division.

While I want to make it clear that I do not condone what the SSPX did, it seems that some in the leadership of the Church place greater scruitiny on the “Right” than they do on the “Left.” Hopefully this will begin to change under Benedict XVI - he has done some great housekeeping so far - maybe he will take some action here.
 
JaMc said:
This is what bothers me about the whole SSPX division/controversy - When the SSPX ordained the bishops without the permission of Rome, the Vatican lowered the boom. However, when this bishop commits a greater offense, nothing seems to happen. Both heresy and schism carry the penalty of excommunication, yet heresy seems to be tolerated, while a debatable “schism” results in a 30+ year division.

While I want to make it clear that I do not condone what the SSPX did, it seems that some in the leadership of the Church place greater scruitiny on the “Right” than they do on the “Left.” Hopefully this will begin to change under Benedict XVI - he has done some great housekeeping so far - maybe he will take some action here.
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yeah I agree with you well said! I don’t support what SSPX did either but they seemed to have reacted pretty harshly while a Bishop like this one can monkey aroud for years. Hans Kung is still not excommunicated! He is the representative of the Vatican in ecumenical dialog !

Then people wonder why we are losing so many Catholics to Protestants or even atheism :eek:
 
duckbill said:
yeah I agree with you well said! I don’t support what SSPX did either but they seemed to have reacted pretty harshly while a Bishop like this one can monkey aroud for years. Hans Kung is still not excommunicated! He is the representative of the Vatican in ecumenical dialog !

Then people wonder why we are losing so many Catholics to Protestants or even atheism :eek:
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Well it foolish heretical non-sense like this that I keep seeing that highly placed Catholic clergy and theologians come out with that makes conservative Evangelical Protestantism look more attractive every day to me.
 
Caveman said:
From Le Forum Catholique;

Chairman of the German Bishops conference : “Christ didn’t die for the sins of the people”…
The Chairman of the German Bishops’ Conference and archbishop of Freiburg, Robert Zollitsch, believes that Christ’s crucifixion is just a psychological support for those who suffer.

On Holy Saturday, the archbishop denied the Expiatory Death of Christ in an interview with the German TV station ‘Hessischer Rundfunk’. Christ “did not die for the sins of the people as if God had needed a sacrificial offering or something like a scapegoat” - the archbishop said.

According to him the dying Christ simply expressed “solidarity” with the suffering of the people even to death. This way, Christ showed, the archbishop said, that even suffering and pain have been taken up by God.

According to Zollitsch “this is the great perspective, the tremendous solidarity,” that Christ went so far that he suffered all “with” me. The journalist asked Zollitsch: “You would now no longer describe it in such a way that God gave his own son, because we humans were so sinful? You would no longer describe it like this?” To this question Zollitsch replied with a clear “no”.
Click to expand...
Apparently, this poor bishop is either ignorant of scripture or a deceiver and a liar, neither one is good for a bishop. Just a few scripture passages to expose the bishop’s error:

Rom 3:24-26 - They are justified freely by his grace through the redemption in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as an expiation, through faith, by his blood, to prove his righteousness because of the forgiveness of sins previously committed, through the forbearance of God–to prove his righteousness in the present time, that he might be righteous and justify the one who has faith in Jesus.
Rom 5:9, 10 – Christ died for us… for if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son…
I Cor 15:3 – For I delivered to you first of all, what I also received, that ***Christ died for our sins ***according to the scriptures…
Eph 1:7 – In him we have redemption through his blood, the remission of sin, according to the riches of his grace.
Heb 2:17 – Wherefore it was right that he should in all things be made like unto his brethren, that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest before God to expiate the sins of the people.
Heb 9:12 - … but by the virtue of his own blood, into the Holies, having obtained eternal redemption.
Heb 9:26, 28 – But as it is, once for all at the end of the ages, he has appeared for the destruction of sin by the sacrifice of himself… so also was Christ offered once to take away the sins of many.
I Pet 1:18-19 – You were redeemed… not with perishable things… but with the precious blood of Christ.
I Pet 3:18 - Because Christ also died once for sins, the Just for the unjust, that he might being us to God.
I John 1:7 - … and the blood of Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.
I John 2:2 - … and he is a propitiation for our sins, not for ours only but also for those of the whole world.
Rev. 1:5 - … To Him who has loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood…
 
unless the bishop denies the atonement explicitly, we can’t say for sure if he holds to a heretical view. i think the article is a little misleading. the bishop may be stressing an aspect of Christ’s pascal mystery, that we can unite our suffering with him.

Christ died for us to conquer death because he loves us so much. because sin brought us death and Christ’s death conquered death, he therefore died for our sins.
 
Here is an interview made by AP on April 8, 2009 (three days before the tv interview?) It is in German. I hope a German speaker might be able to provide a better translation. Here is a very rough translation made with Google Translate:

de.news.yahoo.com/1/20090403/ten-ein-liebesgeschenk-an-die-menschheit-207a97c.html

«A love gift to humanity"
background (repetition of the contribution from last Friday)

Wednesday, 8 April, clock 07:08
AP

Frankfurt / Main (AP) The chairman of the German Bishops’ Conference, Archbishop Robert Zollitsch, has warned the Easter message Easter bunnies and Easter eggs to be reduced. “Easter is the central and most important festival of Christianity,” Zollitsch said in an interview with the AP news agency. At Easter, the central question of meaning for the people asked: "Why I live and why is life even if it is earthly ends next?»

AP: Is Easter with the resurrection of Jesus from a Christian perspective is more important than Christmas? Born to be finally all people, but the victory of life over death is a central message of Christianity?

Zollitsch: Easter is the central and most important feast of Christianity. It is almost completed, what Christmas has begun. Easter is the feast at which the fear of man is overcome, there is hope, there is the prospect of life after death. By his death Christ has for us people to overcome death. This is something profoundly liberating: Life goes on, because we also have Easter with our own resurrection at heart.

AP: Why is it your opinion that Easter from social perspective less emphasis than Christmas?

Zollitsch: First, it is noted that the atmosphere of Christmas, the child in the manger, the Christmas tree decorated with burning candles many people emotionally much more attractive than Easter. All the more is about the importance of Easter to re-explain. The gleam of the Christmas trees and Christmas gifts characterize superficial, without always the message of the festival is understood. For Easter is the message of Easter bunnies and Easter eggs at reduced. But even this is too superficial. There is more: An Easter is the central question of meaning for the people asked. Why I live and why is life even if it is earthly ends next? From this hope, we need to re-tell.

AP: Many people find it difficult, the idea of a loving God with the suffering of the innocent Jesus on the cross to bring them into compliance? Does God is a sin offering?

Zollitsch: God needs no expiatory sacrifice, but theologically the death of Jesus wants to show the world that Christ death on the cross needed to be redeemed. In the Old Testament will give us the tradition of “scapegoat” survived: A goat was symbolically laden with sins, and hunted in the desert. Christ redeemed by his death, humanity and enables her to live in and with God. What initially sounds tragic and brutal, death on the cross is the ultimate expression of total self-giving of Jesus, a love gift to humanity. He died not for God, but for us.

(The interview was conducted by Stephan Köhnlein)

© 2009 The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved - All Rights Reserved

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