Chairman of the German Bishops conference : "Christ didn't die for the sins of the people"

[Soutane]

Pope Paul VI was right-the smoke of Satan has entered our Church.I wish that Pope Benedict would purge the Church of these snakes.

 

[redrosetea]

Pope Paul VI was right-the smoke of Satan has entered our Church.I wish that Pope Benedict would purge the Church of these snakes.

We need to remember God is still in charge and I am sure things will be settled in time

I think that going slowly isn’t a bad thing…It is better to gather facts and give people a chance to repent , and come back to the fullness of the church than to barge in and maybe get things wrong

Hans Kung finally hung himself with his own rope…the church moves slowly but it does move…better to be just and fair even though it might not always be the popular thng to do

God promised he would be with us to the end of the world

Fr Groescehl always says in times of spiritual darkness God raises up His greatest saints

Look at thoes that have been alive during my lifetime…Padre Pio, Mother Theresa, Mother Cabrini,Cardinal Cook, Bishop Sheen, Fr Solanus Casey…and I am sure I am forgetting many others

WE know the end of the book and we win…take heart everyone…look at the wonderful people on this forum like Jr Education…we still outnumber those that preach heresy

 

[maggiemay2u]

If the good bishop really said this, I imagine he’ll be glad he was wrong…eventually…

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

This is ridiculous! Rome must already know this guy is a heretic! Are you all telling me that we can work 40 or more hours a week and know about this and CDF whose job it is to **know **what’s going on in the Church doesn’t know?!

Where is all the pseudo conservative Catholics up in arms about this as they were about Obama at Notra Dame?! I was against Obama’s visit too but this Bishop is preaching HERESY!!! The Church CAN do something about it!

here is the address of who to contact at the CDF to motivate them
catholicvox.blogspot.com/

Thank you so much for the link. It is much appreciated.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

We need to remember God is still in charge and I am sure things will be settled in time

I think that going slowly isn’t a bad thing…It is better to gather facts and give people a chance to repent , and come back to the fullness of the church than to barge in and maybe get things wrong

Hans Kung finally hung himself with his own rope…the church moves slowly but it does move…better to be just and fair even though it might not always be the popular thng to do

God promised he would be with us to the end of the world

Fr Groescehl always says in times of spiritual darkness God raises up His greatest saints

Look at thoes that have been alive during my lifetime…Padre Pio, Mother Theresa, Mother Cabrini,Cardinal Cook, Bishop Sheen, Fr Solanus Casey…and I am sure I am forgetting many others

WE know the end of the book and we win…take heart everyone…look at the wonderful people on this forum like Jr Education…we still outnumber those that preach heresy

The only thing wrong with taking things slowly is that he is a teacher in the Church…a big leader. He can lead MANY, MANY astray while things are going slowly.

Hail Mary, full of grace,
The Lord is with Thee.
Blessed art Thou among women,
And blessed is the Fruit of Thine Womb, Jesus.

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners
now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

 

[redrosetea]

The only thing wrong with taking things slowly is that he is a teacher in the Church…a big leader. He can lead MANY, MANY astray while things are going slowly.

Hail Mary, full of grace,
The Lord is with Thee.
Blessed art Thou among women,
And blessed is the Fruit of Thine Womb, Jesus.

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners
now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

gods ways are mysterious, and he can’t do more than God will allow…Even this interview has worked against him…perhaps it is all part of God’s plan

 

[CatholicGirl7]

Well it foolish heretical non-sense like this that I keep seeing that highly placed Catholic clergy and theologians come out with that makes conservative Evangelical Protestantism look more attractive every day to me.

Then that’s where you should be. No devout Catholic would allow their faith to be compromised by someone else’s words.

 

[LilyM]

The only thing wrong with taking things slowly is that he is a teacher in the Church…a big leader. He can lead MANY, MANY astray while things are going slowly.

Hail Mary, full of grace,
The Lord is with Thee.
Blessed art Thou among women,
And blessed is the Fruit of Thine Womb, Jesus.

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners
now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

How many years between the ninety-five theses and a) Luther’s excommunication and b) the Council of Trent?

For that matter how many years between the Fall and Christ’s death?

God does NOT work to our timetable. And remember the parable of the wheat and the tares as well - sometimes there are reasons, best known to God, why the two are allowed to grow together.

 

[JReducation]

yeah I agree with you well said! I don’t support what SSPX did either but they seemed to have reacted pretty harshly while a Bishop like this one can monkey aroud for years. Hans Kung is still not excommunicated! He is the representative of the Vatican in ecumenical dialog !

Then people wonder why we are losing so many Catholics to Protestants or even atheism

There is a misunderstanding here. Fr. Kung was ordered not to teach Catholic theology or Catholic philosophy and he has obeyed. There is no reason to excommunicate him.

As to this particular bishop, there will have to be a clarification of his statement before the Holy See takes action against him. That takes time. We will just have to wait and see. Maybe we will never see, if the issue is cleared up internally within the Sacred Congregation for Bishops.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Then that’s where you should be. No devout Catholic would allow their faith to be compromised by someone else’s words.

What about those who are searching for the Truth…and trust that the priests and bishops that they listen to know what they are talking about?

What about those who are just coming into Christianity?

What about children?

Yes, those who are devout and very educated in our Catholic faith would not be compromised by someone else’s words. But we are called to evangelize. This gives scandal and confusion to the TRUTH…and many people’s faith could easily be compromised by it.

Hail Mary, full of grace,
The Lord is with Thee.
Blessed art Thou among women,
And blessed is the Fruit of Thine Womb, Jesus.

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners
now and at the hour of our death. Amen

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

gods ways are mysterious, and he can’t do more than God will allow…Even this interview has worked against him…perhaps it is all part of God’s plan

My faith is in Christ Jesus. But this is contrary to God’s plans. He does NOT cause confusion. However, He had to allow it, or it would never be. And God can bring good out of anything.

 

[redrosetea]

My faith is in Christ Jesus. But this is contrary to God’s plans. He does NOT cause confusion. However, He had to allow it, or it would never be. And God can bring good out of anything.

Yes he can, and he isn’t causing confusion, but He might be using it for a great good…this Bishop needs our prayers, more than our anger…he is more to be pitied than scorned, for he has lost his way

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

There is a misunderstanding here. Fr. Kung was ordered not to teach Catholic theology or Catholic philosophy and he has obeyed. There is no reason to excommunicate him.

As to this particular bishop, there will have to be a clarification of his statement before the Holy See takes action against him. That takes time. We will just have to wait and see. Maybe we will never see, if the issue is cleared up internally within the Sacred Congregation for Bishops.

Fraternally,

JR

May it be so. Thank you for telling us about the outcome of Fr. Kung, and how he obeyed the Holy See. I pray he is converted…just as I pray that this German Bishop is converted to the Truth.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Yes he can, and he isn’t causing confusion, but He might be using it for a great good…this Bishop needs our prayers, more than our anger…he is more to be pitied than scorned, for he has lost his way

Yes. And Jesus loves him very much. He is a lost sheep, and through our prayers, Jesus and this bishop will come together in the Divine Mercy of Christ. That is the Will of God. Let it be done.

I thank you for your posts.

Cherie

 

[JReducation]

Our founder in his great wisdom and holiness always insisted that we follow the lead of the Church, particularly the Holy Father. Sometimes, on these forums we tend to go too fast or too slow. I’m referring here to the judgment on this statement. We’re beginning to use words that the Holy See rarely uses, such as scandal and heretic.

Our holy father always believed that the greatest act of humility was to be patient, even in the face of sin. He called it Perfect Joy. God has his way of acting through the Church, despite our inadequacies.

Some of our greatest saints were also some of the most patient people, while at the same time being very proactive. They had a gift of spiritual balance. This is important when responding to this kind of situation.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[redrosetea]

Our founder in his great wisdom and holiness always insisted that we follow the lead of the Church, particularly the Holy Father. Sometimes, on these forums we tend to go too fast or too slow. I’m referring here to the judgment on this statement. We’re beginning to use words that the Holy See rarely uses, such as scandal and heretic.

Our holy father always believed that the greatest act of humility was to be patient, even in the face of sin. He called it Perfect Joy. God has his way of acting through the Church, despite our inadequacies.

Some of our greatest saints were also some of the most patient people, while at the same time being very proactive. They had a gift of spiritual balance. This is important when responding to this kind of situation.

Fraternally,

JR

I recall the church was in a terrible state when Saint Francis started to rebuild it…they did it 2 by 2 just like Paul and Silas…

At first Francis thought he was to physically rebuild, but God had greater plans for him

Maybe we can all work a little harder to rebuild …it worked before

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

JR, I am not disagreeing with you…I certainly am not.

It’s just that we personally see and hear so many attacks on Christianity…Catholicism in particular. The offense to God hurts me in the face of His awesome sacrifice to take away the sins of the world…mine in particular.
It isn’t that I want to attack back…prayer is the most powerful weapon. I also realize that the attack is coming from hell…it is just coming through these people.
I truly believe that.

And when I see the attacks go on, and on, and on, and on it does create a scandal against the Truth. I admit that I want the Church to investigate and act more quickly. I also admit that my desires are totally irrelevant…and that I do much damage each and every time I sin.
I truly do not mean to judge a person’s heart. I truly desire that everyone be saved, and I offer up everything for priests and bishops when I make my morning offering.
I am not tooting my own horn…I just want you to realize that I am aware that those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

I just want all that are attacking my Jesus to be converted.
I need to hit my knees much more often.

Thank you for helping me to see myself more clearly.
God bless you and your intentions.

Cherie

 

[JReducation]

I recall the church was in a terrible state when Saint Francis started to rebuild it…they did it 2 by 2 just like Paul and Silas…

At first Francis thought he was to physically rebuild, but God had greater plans for him

Maybe we can all work a little harder to rebuild …it worked before

The Church of the 13th century was in greater crisis than we are today. It faced heresies, political forces, financial crisis, poor communication, curruption among the clergy and intervention from corrupt lay men, just to name a few things. I believe the greatest difference was that today news travels faster and unfortunately it is often distorted.

Father Francis started to rebuild the Church by converting Catholics. After several attempts to travel to the foreign missions in the Middle East he became convinced that the mission of the order lay within the Church. Its mission is primarilly the conversion of the Catholic laity. We still send missionaries to non-Christian lands, but we try to focus more on the laity of our own Church. They need us more. This is why he founded the first canonical order for secular men and women, the Brothers and Sisters of Penance, known in the USA as the Secular Franciscans. It is a real order with a mission among the secular Catholic world.

Francis understood that the Church is made up of the faithful, not just the clergy and religious. He also understood the faithful very well. He knew that the faithful talked a good talk when it came to pointing the finger at others labeling them heretics and schismatics while they themselves were guilty of many sins. His rule to the Secular Franciscans was to live a life of penance for the sake of the faithful.

History often repeats itself. Therefore, we need more men and women who are willing to commit their lives to a life of penance for the sake of the faithful. We need more men and women who are willing to see Christ in others and to connect with him through prayer, fasting, abstinence and the perfection of charity.

Above all, Francis and the many great reformers in the Catholic Church’s history taught by their obedience and fidelity to the Holy See and the process of the Church.

The great Teresa of Avila never took a step without the will of obedience from those above her, no matter how sinful they were. Catherine of Siena became holy not because of what she wrote, but because of her great obedience to the Church. Even in her negotiations with the papacy she was eloquent, but humble.

The great Thomas Aquinas was one of the most humble men in Christian history. His theological greatness was the product of an intense life of prayer and penance, but above all his obedience to Dominic. The same can be said of the great Bonaventure.

Brother Bonaventure was a cardinal and yet he submitted to the authority of Father Francis who was a lay brother. He spent the last 20 years of his life writing and preaching about Francis’ humility and obedience.

The point I’m making is that the sanctity is achieved through humility and through the perfection of charity, not through arbitrary judgments of others.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[CatholicGirl7]

What about those who are searching for the Truth…and trust that the priests and bishops that they listen to know what they are talking about?

What about those who are just coming into Christianity?

What about children?

Yes, those who are devout and very educated in our Catholic faith would not be compromised by someone else’s words. But we are called to evangelize. This gives scandal and confusion to the TRUTH…and many people’s faith could easily be compromised by it.

Hail Mary, full of grace,
The Lord is with Thee.
Blessed art Thou among women,
And blessed is the Fruit of Thine Womb, Jesus.

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners
now and at the hour of our death. Amen

Oh, please do you know how many denominations of Protestants exist? That road will be even more difficult. There wil always be supposed blanket statements in the “news”. The media has proven itself over and over to be extremely unreliable and hostile to Catholics. “Journalists” have been known to use trickery and sensationalize and distort statements to no end in order to villify Cathholic clergy. Obvious examples are what happened with Williamson who was tricked into making his now famous statements and is suffering for it, how the Pope’s statements on birth control were sensationalized and printed out of context just so the public could ridicule him and organizations could condemn him, the priest abuse scandals which have been blown way out of proportion to give Catholics a black eye and reduce the power of the Church. I place no import on what the media says at all. If these statements of the German bishop are true I prefer to learn about them from more reliable sources and see what comes of it. I advise anyone coming into the faith to go by what their Church doctrine says and to question their own priests accordingly.

Bless you for caring enough to ask my opinion.

 

[CatholicGirl7]

The Church of the 13th century was in greater crisis than we are today. It faced heresies, political forces, financial crisis, poor communication, curruption among the clergy and intervention from corrupt lay men, just to name a few things. I believe the greatest difference was that today news travels faster and unfortunately it is often distorted.

Father Francis started to rebuild the Church by converting Catholics. After several attempts to travel to the foreign missions in the Middle East he became convinced that the mission of the order lay within the Church. Its mission is primarilly the conversion of the Catholic laity. We still send missionaries to non-Christian lands, but we try to focus more on the laity of our own Church. They need us more. This is why he founded the first canonical order for secular men and women, the Brothers and Sisters of Penance, known in the USA as the Secular Franciscans. It is a real order with a mission among the secular Catholic world.

Francis understood that the Church is made up of the faithful, not just the clergy and religious. He also understood the faithful very well. He knew that the faithful talked a good talk when it came to pointing the finger at others labeling them heretics and schismatics while they themselves were guilty of many sins. His rule to the Secular Franciscans was to live a life of penance for the sake of the faithful.

History often repeats itself. Therefore, we need more men and women who are willing to commit their lives to a life of penance for the sake of the faithful. We need more men and women who are willing to see Christ in others and to connect with him through prayer, fasting, abstinence and the perfection of charity.

Above all, Francis and the many great reformers in the Catholic Church’s history taught by their obedience and fidelity to the Holy See and the process of the Church.

The great Teresa of Avila never took a step without the will of obedience from those above her, no matter how sinful they were. Catherine of Siena became holy not because of what she wrote, but because of her great obedience to the Church. Even in her negotiations with the papacy she was eloquent, but humble.

The great Thomas Aquinas was one of the most humble men in Christian history. His theological greatness was the product of an intense life of prayer and penance, but above all his obedience to Dominic. The same can be said of the great Bonaventure.

Brother Bonaventure was a cardinal and yet he submitted to the authority of Father Francis who was a lay brother. He spent the last 20 years of his life writing and preaching about Francis’ humility and obedience.

The point I’m making is that the sanctity is achieved through humility and through the perfection of charity, not through arbitrary judgments of others.

Fraternally,

JR

Great response. You humble me. I would add Cathholics need to show greater charity towards each other as sometimes we need it more.