One, I often wonder how one who flat-out broke from the Church (Luther)and another who wasn’t formed for another couple hundred years(Wesley) could claim apostolic succession.
The EO, which is practically indiscernable as far as doctrine goes, is gradually returning to Rome as we speak.
The post had to be broken in 2 Sorry
I often hear Roman Catholics and Protestants for that matter claiming Apostolic succession. Where do you get this unbroken chain non-sense. Neither the Apostles creed nor the Nicene creed contain the words Apostolic succession. One Holy Catholic and Apostolic church. Not Apostolic succession. The church is based on the foundation of the Apostles not Aposolic succession. Being able to say you have 1 unbroken chain of Bishops that traces back to Peter although great for historical teaching hardly justifies the Roman Catholic church as the
only church of Jesus. An Apostolic church means:
- Pertaining to an apostle, or to the apostles, their times, or their peculiar spirit; as, an apostolical mission; the apostolic age.
- According to the doctrines of the apostles; delivered or taught by the apostles; as, apostolic faith or practice.
I believe the Bible constitutes number 2. Any church that teaches the Bible is teaching what the Apostles taught. I’m pretty sure our church believes what the Apostles believed and teaches what the Apostles teach. I would say then that we are part of the Catholic (universal) and Apostolic church. We don’t need Apostolic succession. Besides that how do we know one of our founders couldn’t trace themselves back to the Apostles?? Or any church for that matter.
Two, I always find it strange that those who leave the Church like to blame the Church instead of looking at themselves first. They think that for going to Mass that the Church owes them something.
The church does owe them something my brother. The church is responsible for saving those that are lost and for edifying those that are already saved. If you can’t get fed spiritually going to church then why go. To say you are a member?? Does Jesus just want members so the numbers can look great?? No he gave us the great commission which started with the Apostles. Go and make disciples. Sound familiar? The attitude you are masking for the church is the same arrogant attitude that is driving people away. If the church doesn’t offer anything then no one will come.
Given that I would definitely say when you come to church you better be ready to worship and Praise GOD. No one should just sit back and say “OK what do you have for me? ho hum ho hum, are we done yet” I think we both have probably seen plenty of that. But when you leave the feeling should be WOW I really heard a rich message and was able to join my fellow Christians in deep fellowship.
Three, I bounced through my fair share of Protestant “churches” and heard their falsehoods and their wide range of ideas-which now number denominations into the tens-of-thousands, all of which were supposedly based on “scripture alone”. I doubt this kind of confusion is what Christ had in mind.
I wouldn’t disagree with you. We just had this discussion at our church. One of our Pastors was commenting on all the “watered down” versions of Christian churches that seemed to be popping up today. I for one love the rich tradition of the Christian church and don’t believe in ever compromising our beliefs in an effort to cater to the changing times. Our beliefs morally and ethically are still applicable today and will be forever.
The Bible is neither self-interpreting, nor self-authenticating. Everywhere it draws together people who read the Bible differently and which in turn begin their own faith traditions that are no more or no less based on scripture than anything the Church teaches.
That was sort of confusing. But basically what you are saying is there is danger in just picking up the Bible, reading it, and then starting your own church. Correct?? I agree 100%. Just as I went to school to learn technology and have been a technology professional for over 20 years, I would hardly think I can start my own church just after readnig the Bible. Paul even cautions us on letting new members in the church become leaders within the church let alone starting their own church.
With that said that doesn’t mean that there aren’t alot of really great churches non Roman catholic, but still Catholic out there. I believe ours is one for sure and didn’t pick it by just walking in and saying “this feels good enough”. There are some real wacky beliefs out there.
The difference between Protestants and Catholics is that the Catholic Church has 1500 years of interpretation from men who were much closer to Christ and the Apostles than Luther, Calvin, or Wesley, to measure itself against.
You’re implying that the Protestant churches started in a complete vacuum. Like they basically said “OK, forget all that history and tradition, let’s start over” They were Protesting some very specific doctrines, not all doctrines as folks imply on these boards. If that’s what the Roman Catholic church is teaching then maybe they should take a history lesson. Our church always references beliefs and practices that stem back to ancient times.
hi the original question of this thread “how can any religion that goes by the bible not beleive in the catholic church” the simplest answer to this question can be pride. ie i beleive God told me this so i beleive it to be true because i beleive it to be true so it must be true.and because i beleive what i believe to be true i do not need some one to tell me what to beleive.the fact is no single church but the catholic church can trace it’s leadership back to Christ Himself. fact Christ’s church began with Himself and those He Himself sent forth.if i choose to beleive one thing i can easily find some group to support that beleif even if it is against God’s word.