Change of heart on socialized medicine

[royal_archer]

That’s never going to change. People will work hard, to not have to work, ironically. You cannot weed those people out without tossing actual needy individuals out at the same time.

Your only answer is ‘well if the world worked completely differently, you’d be ok’. Well if the world worked completely differently, then I wouldn’t have been born with the wreck of a body I have.

But instead of trying to fix the problem you are just going after the people who are easy to take from.

 

[pathia]

There are not 46 million “Americans” with out insurance. 10 million are illegal ailiens, about 3 million are legal aliens, and a million or two are self insured and many choose not to get insurance for other reasons.

If you get those who are able to work working, you will have more resources available to those who are truly needy.

That still leaves about thirty million.

 

[pathia]

But instead of trying to fix the problem you are just going after the people who are easy to take from.

The problem is endemic of any society. The only time I’ve ever heard of this not occurring in a society, is when those individuals were kicked out into separate colonies, along with the sick and dying.

 

[royal_archer]

Well good for you.
46.3 million are uninsured news.aol.com/article/number-o…surance/664816

nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml

Again, a misrepresented number and fails to take into consieration those who are not working to their potential.

As to the rising costs. Much of that is due to advances in medicine and new regulation. If there were an apple to apple comparison with the prior years the increase in rates would be much less. For instance if Insurance comanies had the option to exclude any procedure or medicine made available after a specific date, then you would see cost stabilize.

If we are pro life - we are pro health care / health coverage reform -
Per the USCCB

I am also for health car reform, I’m just not in favor of the lynch mob mentality towards those who earn more.

I am unsubscribing from this thread

It is a shame you won’t answer the question about having empathy for those who disagree with you.

 

[royal_archer]

20? I’m assuming you mean 200. I could have died at birth, I wouldn’t have had any conversations. However, barring that, I wouldn’t have been mutilated at birth, thus the major culprit for my chronic health issues wouldn’t have ever happened.

Yes you are correct I meant 200 years ago. Many of us would not have lived to this point in our lives. and for that we should be thankful instead of begrudging third parties because they are not doing more for us.

 

[royal_archer]

That still leaves about thirty million.

Now take away the willful underachievers…

I am thinking the level of truly needy is around 3% as a rough order of magnitude.

When we get to that number, charity will be more than enough.

 

[pathia]

Then we get to that number, charity will be more than enough.

The last time I relied on charity, I was cast out of multiple homeless shelters. They were afraid of me. My trust of ‘charity’ is low. I thought I wouldn’t experience bigotry and hate from them, but I did, even catholic staffed shelters.

 

[royal_archer]

The problem is endemic of any society. The only time I’ve ever heard of this not occurring in a society, is when those individuals were kicked out into separate colonies, along with the sick and dying.

And It could not happen over night. It took us nearly a hundred years to get to this level of entitlement mentality and it will take a while to pull ourselves out of it. The first step to start changing the perception of the bums from some type of traggic urban hero to a perception of them as bums. And to change the perception of hoboes for some type of traggic urban hearo to a perception of ecentric free spirit.

This is an allusion to an email going around a few years ago distinguising hoboes from bums. The email made the distinction that Hoboes did work around the train yard to pay for their meager living but were not dependent on society even though they were “poor”. We need to start respecting these people as people and not treat them as fodder for political agendas.

 

[pathia]

This is an allusion to an email going around a few years ago distinguising hoboes from bums. The email made the distinction that Hoboes did work around the train yard to pay for their meager living but were not dependent on society even though they were “poor”. We need to start respecting these people as people and not treat them as fodder for political agendas.

When are the insurance companies going to start treating me like a human being?

 

[royal_archer]

The last time I relied on charity, I was cast out of multiple homeless shelters. They were afraid of me. My trust of ‘charity’ is low. I thought I wouldn’t experience bigotry and hate from them, but I did, even catholic staffed shelters.

Most of my experiences with bigotry and hate were with it comming from agents of the government.

 

[royal_archer]

When are the insurance companies going to start treating me like a human being?

I am treating you like a human being and an equal and that is all I can control.

 

[apromisemade]

On these boards there is a tendancy to drag out the unusual annecdotal case and portray it as the norm. Outside of here, in real life I find that the overwhelming majority are not representative of these annecdotal cases.

As for experimental surgeries, That is something in the contract with the insurance company, They should be forced to honor their contract. Like I have said a zillion times companies should be obligated to continue coverage as long as the customer keeps paying.

There is nothing unusual about these examples. If you know where to look you can see that thousands upon thousands of people have their own health insurance horror stories to tell.

And, quite honestly, the fact that insurance companies even reserve to right to refuse to cover someone in the first place is ridiculous. And that they would refuse to cover a procedure recomended by the persons doctor and the person *dies *as a result because the company wants to save a buck is simply outrageous. These are middle class people who work hard and pay up when the monthly bill comes in and still get screwed over.

Even if a small percentage of insurance “customers” were treated this way, I would still be outraged.

Again, I ask you, what advice are these people supposed to be taking that they aren’t?

 

[aspawloski4th]

There is nothing unusual about these examples. If you know where to look you can see that thousands upon thousands of people have their own health insurance horror stories to tell.

And, quite honestly, the fact that insurance companies even reserve to right to refuse to cover someone in the first place is ridiculous. And that they would refuse to cover a procedure recomended by the persons doctor and the person *dies *as a result because the company wants to save a buck is simply outrageous. These are middle class people who work hard and pay up when the monthly bill comes in and still get screwed over.

Even if a small percentage of insurance “customers” were treated this way, I would still be outraged.

Again, I ask you, what advice are these people supposed to be taking that they aren’t?

Even if this happens to one person it is unforgivable, but it’s rapant. It’s time to stick it to the insurance companies and their excecutives. The mob is more ethical and moral than they are. At least the mob keeps their promises.

 

[cynic]

1. Many of those jobs are service industry which is representative of bad macro ecconomic planning. Bringing industry back to America will replace those jobs with better paying jobs.

The only way to attract industry back would be by reducing labour costs, abolishing the minimum wage and other labour laws.

1. Better trained people will reduce the number of individuals willing to take those entry level jobs and the reduced availability of qualified labor will result in an increase in pay.

Good point, but there’s the issue of who pays for the training.

 

[pathia]

As if that’s going to happen…the only way to attract industry back would be by reducing labour costs, abolishing the minimum wage and other labour laws.

Pretty sure not even the republicans would want to lower the minimum wage to 50cents an hour, or lower, which is why industry moved out in the first place. Labor costs are almost negligible in countries where they can abuse their workers.

 

[Arwen037]

One reason why an insurance company may not want to pay for a procedure recommended by a physician is because lots physicians are becoming corrupt. Which ties into high health care costs. Physician owned clinics/labs, hospital kickback for within hospital referrals. There is an increasing number of unnecessary procedures being recommended. Look into it. It’s really bad.

 

[aspawloski4th]

This response shows that you do not undersand my possition. All of these are areas of personal responsibility. I have a duty to help my neighbor but this is not license to go and take money from another in order to provide that assistance. I have a duty to help and a personal obligation to God. That is an obligation I accept voluntarily, not through force of government or even the force of God. It is something I give freely out of love. If you cometo my door with a cut I will bandage the wound. I could even stitch it if you are willing to forgo anesthetics. However, if the wound were more serious, I don’t have a right to hold a gun to my doctors head and force him to treat you. It is specifically this use of force or the threat of force that is so offensive, not the acts of kindness or charity.

Your idea od personal responsibility goes much further than any philosepher or theologin in Christianity will ever go. With the way you are implying the definition of personal responsibility, the rape victim is resposible because she wore a bit of a short skirt. The little kid who got beat up by the bully is responsible for not fighting the bully strong enough. There is a word in the English lanuage called can’t, a word you need to relearn sir. No one of ligitimate language authority is looking to take it out. There happens to be some things that some CAN’T do, whether can’t is in you vocabulary or not. You have to get off the stupid mindset that anyone can do anything. Everyone has things they are able to do and things they are not able to do. I can forcast severe weather as a degreed meteorologist with the best of them, but I couldn’t sing or dance if my life depnded on it. Some people are more disabled than others, I went to school around many disabled children, but you’d leave them out in the cold because no one will employthem one they becaome adult. The specific cause of Pathia’s problems may be rare, but there are many her age with other kinds of problems just as bad. What about someone who gets Lou Gehrig’s disiease? What about someone who gets altzheimers in their 40’s? What about my wife having psoriatic arthraitis? Iv’e woken up in the middle of the night more times thean I care to count from her screaming from severe pain, but you’d say she has to work, which would kill her likely sooner rather than later.

 

[pathia]

One reason why an insurance company may not want to pay for a procedure recommended by a physician is because lots physicians are becoming corrupt. Which ties into high health care costs. Physician owned clinics/labs, hospital kickback for within hospital referrals. There is an increasing number of unnecessary procedures being recommended. Look into it. It’s really bad.

Even when not doing it, means death? Something like oh, a brain tumor?

youtube.com/watch?v=aiIBs0mZb9o

I was denied coverage for appendicitis surgery for example, by using pre-existing condition clauses. They said my transsexuality ‘caused’ it, which quite dumbfounded all my doctors and every doctor I’ve ever met since.

 

[aspawloski4th]

One reason why an insurance company may not want to pay for a procedure recommended by a physician is because lots physicians are becoming corrupt. Which ties into high health care costs. Physician owned clinics/labs, hospital kickback for within hospital referrals. There is an increasing number of unnecessary procedures being recommended. Look into it. It’s really bad.

Because I have a grandmother who was a nurse not overly long ago , and my wife has a cousin who is a nurse, who actually woiked with my grandmother for a little time. I can tell you it’s not as rampant as you think it is. The doctor or doctors doing the diagnosis shoud be the people that decide if a certain procedure is needed, not some paper pusher at an insurance comapny. They should just do thier pen pushing and leave medical decisions to those liscensed to practice medicine.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Iv’e got to say I never thought I’d see some many so stridently defending eveil greedy insurance comapnies as I have seen in this thread. Makes me wonder if someone isn’t being paid a few bones to make an evil industry sound incocent, in the current climate. I know people in all parts of the political spectrum, but no one I know would defending health insurance comapanies like they are being defended here. Something is rotten in Denmark, I smell a rat.