Change of heart on socialized medicine

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aspawloski4th said:
There still isn’t a final bill reconciled between the 2 houses. So you can’t talk about what is, because there is no “is” yet. Funny how it bad for the governemnt gets ripped for corruption by you, but the insurance industry that is ten time more corrupt gets a total pass.
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10 times? can you back that up with anything?
 
Ella said:
NOW is the time for everyone to contribute their ideas and make the system we adopt the best health care system we can, that is affordable and covers everyone. Just like, um, Switzerland for instance.
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What is the rush to ram something through? We could easily try some of the non intrusive measures and then based on the results, determine if anything should be none next.
 
Ella said:
I think this statement is one of the most callous, evil things I’ve ever seen a healthy person say to a sick person in my entire life.
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Why? If a person states on several occasions that they have the option to move to seek health care but will die if the do not. They why is it callous to say that the true limmiting factor is that they don’t want to move?
 
royal_archer said:
Why? If a person states on several occasions that they have the option to move to seek health care but will die if the do not. They why is it callous to say that the true limmiting factor is that they don’t want to move?
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Moving to a foreign country is a huge endevour and not everyone on this earth is capable of handling. Everyone in the real world knows that.
 
aspawloski4th said:
Lets define when tests are needed and not needed. Which is more subjective than one would think. My maternal grandmother( the one who is not a nurse) had a primary physician for years that wouldnt order tests needed to find her massive healthproblems,becuase he waas affraid of ordering too many tests, the same doctor for my maternal grandmother was the primary for a beloved nieghbor of my paternal grandmother. This neighbor of my paernal granmother(the nurse) was outoors on his porch having family time with his grade school aged children while my grandma was out doors doing her own thing. My grandma’s niehgbor started loosing his breth and turning blue. My grandmother called 911 he was taken to the hosptital and was misdiagnosed as not having a heart attack because that doctor wouldnt order the tests needed, and that neighbor died, and his children went fatherless. Because of not ordrig the p[roper tests. My maternal grandmother’s health got to be better for a small time when she went to a doctor who had her tested properly. This story is very important to me, that maternal grandmother passed away 4 days before my wedding. If Granny Ann Would of done what Granny Irene pladed for her to do(get a better doctor), I likely could of had her at my wedding as she should of been. ButtyGranny Ann’s doctor was too much in insurance’s back pocket.
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But with governmetn run health care you will only get the doctor you are given. And yes for years we wer orced to use government run health care. And actually I misspoke in the previous sentance, we were lucky to get a doctor, normally we just got physicians assistants. Not that they provided very bad care but is nice with free market medicine where we can get more access to full doctors.
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aspawloski4th said:
Moving to a foreign country is a huge endevour and not everyone on this earth is capable of handling. Everyone in the real world knows that.
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How many illegal aliens and legal imigrants are there in the US? How many americans have ancestors who immigrated?
 
royal_archer said:
But with governmetn run health care you will only get the doctor you are given. And yes for years we wer orced to use government run health care. And actually I misspoke in the previous sentance, we were lucky to get a doctor, normally we just got physicians assistants. Not that they provided very bad care but is nice with free market medicine where we can get more access to full doctors.
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This case was a doctor who answered to isurance companies all the time. Her retirement plan had Blue Cross which when in Michigan is the worst.
 
royal_archer said:
But you have an option to move or die and you have been choosing death over moving. Not paying for your medical care does not condemn you to death, it is condemning you to moving.
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royal_archer said:
But with governmetn run health care you will only get the doctor you are given.
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This is not true. Many countries have government health care and choice of doctors. We can, too.
Ironically it’s with private insurance that doctor choice is limited… especially in HMO’s.
royal_archer said:
And yes for years we wer orced to use government run health care. And actually I misspoke in the previous sentance, we were lucky to get a doctor, normally we just got physicians assistants. Not that they provided very bad care but is nice with free market medicine where we can get more access to full doctors.
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You were on the dole?
 
royal_archer said:
How many illegal aliens and legal imigrants are there in the US? How many americans have ancestors who immigrated?
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How many immigrants to the US were seriously ill when they immigrated? You are talking about seriously ill people, of course, in your suggestion that they leave this country to get health care.
 
royal_archer said:
What is the rush to ram something through? We could easily try some of the non intrusive measures and then based on the results, determine if anything should be none next.
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Nobody is ‘ramming’ something through. The subject is on the table and that is why now is the time to contribute your (name removed by moderator)ut.

A good reason to reform health care right now, though, is the exponential rise in insurance coverage costs.

“Over the last decade, employer-sponsored health insurance premiums have increased 131 percent.” * The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation. Employee Health Benefits: 2009 Annual Survey. September 2009. *
 
aspawloski4th said:
Moving to a foreign country is a huge endevour and not everyone on this earth is capable of handling. Everyone in the real world knows that.
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So instead of moving to another country, how about moving closer to a teaching hospital? Teaching hospitals charge based on income.
healthguideusa.org/teaching_hospitals.htm

My family moved a few years ago. We moved just over 850 miles so my husband could have a job. Surely it would be worth it to move to a city with a teaching hospital. 🤷
 
royal_archer said:
But with governmetn run health care you will only get the doctor you are given. And yes for years we wer orced to use government run health care. And actually I misspoke in the previous sentance, we were lucky to get a doctor, normally we just got physicians assistants. Not that they provided very bad care but is nice with free market medicine where we can get more access to full doctors.
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We did too. At least I had government health care as a child.

And No, my parents weren’t on the dole. My dad was in the military for 23 years.

I don’t remember ever making an appointment with a doctor. It was with the clinic. Then the next doctor available took the next patient on the list. The best way to explain it is to have you think of MASH. If you ever saw the show, think about the difference between Frank Burns and Hawkeye Pierce. Sometimes when your number came up, you got Hawkeye. And sometimes you got stuck with Frank.

But I am sure that the government can do better for the general public than they do for their military. :rolleyes:
 
Ella said:
This is not true. Many countries have government health care and choice of doctors. We can, too.
Ironically it’s with private insurance that doctor choice is limited… especially in HMO’s.

You were on the dole?
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Yes, I was on “the dole”, while serving in the Military, and my experience with government run health care is that you go to the government facility, wait in line and eventually a PA walks in asks what is wrong, and is out the door in three minutes is out the door and the nurse brings you a script and then you hope the drugs work so you don’t have to go through the ordeal again. With my HMO I get to choose my doctor and see that doctor.
 
maryjk said:
So instead of moving to another country, how about moving closer to a teaching hospital? Teaching hospitals charge based on income.
healthguideusa.org/teaching_hospitals.htm

My family moved a few years ago. We moved just over 850 miles so my husband could have a job. Surely it would be worth it to move to a city with a teaching hospital. 🤷
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Teaching hospital would be nice, but it wouldn’t do anything to the $1500-2500 worth of medications I need per month. I can get those and import them overseas, illegally I might add, for a fraction of the cost, but customs has been seizing three our of four, so it’s not a reliable source.
 
Ella said:
Nobody is ‘ramming’ something through. The subject is on the table and that is why now is the time to contribute your (name removed by moderator)ut.

A good reason to reform health care right now, though, is the exponential rise in insurance coverage costs.

“Over the last decade, employer-sponsored health insurance premiums have increased 131 percent.” * The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation. Employee Health Benefits: 2009 Annual Survey*. September 2009.
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Obama is trying to rush legislation through before anyone has a chance to organize opposition and reason with the American people. They are trying to get it approved on an emotional impulse support because they know that when people have a chance to understand the intelectual arguements against it.

I understand the rise in health care costs Miune are going up by over a thousand dollars next year!

The problem is that more of that burden is being shifted from those that won’t pay to the employers who are perceived to have deep pockets. Add to that the new conditions that the companies are being expected to cover and the threat of out of control cost expansions under Obama .

by the way 131% over 10 years is only 3.1% per year. That is not much more than inflation, I would have thought the increase would have been more.
 
maryjk said:
We did too. At least I had government health care as a child.

And No, my parents weren’t on the dole. My dad was in the military for 23 years.

I don’t remember ever making an appointment with a doctor. It was with the clinic. Then the next doctor available took the next patient on the list. The best way to explain it is to have you think of MASH. If you ever saw the show, think about the difference between Frank Burns and Hawkeye Pierce. Sometimes when your number came up, you got Hawkeye. And sometimes you got stuck with Frank.

But I am sure that the government can do better for the general public than they do for their military. :rolleyes:
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One thing I will say is that the interns were good at taking blood. Assembly line medicine is suited for that.
 
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