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neophyte
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I didn’t say he did.
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QwertyGirl
Guest
Correct. You did, however, jump to quite a conclusion.
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anon65111186
Guest
Right, if there was love for the other, there would be self-control. I was just imagining if this post topic was “Changed my views on Adultery”, I don’t think it would go the same way, but yet the substance is much the same. Sexual sin which should be avoided to please God.
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Thorolfr
Guest
What kinds of psychological problems do you think occur when someone engages in gay sex? I’m a gay man and can’t think of why the sex itself would cause psychological problems. If gay men have psychological problems, they probably arise instead from being bullied in school, from being rejected and disowned by their families, and from being told by their churches that their intimate relationships are a terrible sin that is likely to lead to hell.vsedriver:
Interesting. But even without STDs there are still many more problems if one commits homosexual acts. I think there are some psychological ones?
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SuperLuigi
Guest
Post’n’flee.
Homosexual are sins that lead to hell. No matter how badly society wants it otherwise.
Doesn’t give you any extra moral authority.
Gay relationships are generally not stable. If they were so great, there wouldn’t be a need for pride parades or angry opposition to the Truth.
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Thorolfr
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But I do know more about what most gay people experience than almost any straight person.Thorolfr:
Doesn’t give you any extra moral authority.
Lots of people have pride parades beside gay people. What do you think that military parade that Trump wants to have is? And what about St. Patrick’s Day parades? You’re not going to claim, are you, that “If being American or being Irish were so great, there wouldn’t be a need for a military parade or a St. Patrick’s Day parade”?Thorolfr:
Gay relationships are generally not stable. If they were so great, there wouldn’t be a need for pride parades or angry opposition to the Truth.
And there are long lasting and stable gay relationships. But there’s no doubt that when many gay people grow up, as I pointed out previously, being bullied at school, being rejected by their families and being rejected by their churches, it’s more difficult for them to form long lasting and stable relationships. But if their relationships were supported by their families and churches, it would be easier.
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ratio1
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This is becoming history.
Seems like it’s the reverse now. If you don’t support gay marriage then you are the one being bullied at school.
Would be curious to see whether gay marriage countries have shown that gay relationships are now as stable as heterosexual ones.
My guess is that it is still not as stable.
The main psychological problems gay people have (and I don’t mean every gay person has this problem, I just mean this is more prevalent) is self victimisation. Gay community now has pretty much equal rights and yet they still want to portray themselves as victims.
Military parades and st pat days are not a big celebration of self victimisation.
Even when much more horrendous acts have happen to certain groups of people (eg Jews) they don’t go on and on about it. They actually go and fight for their rights and don’t get into the blame game.
First people blame there is persecution. When persecution stops, they blame unequal rights. When equal rights are there they are probably going to blame subtle discrimination. They will always find something to blame for their essentially flawed relationships.
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Thorolfr
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Things are not as wonderful for gay people as what you claim. Many gay people, myself included, are still rejected by many or all of their family members. Until this last year, it had been more than 20 years since I had joined my extended family for Thanksgiving. Fortunately for me, the fundamentalist Christian family members who made me feel unwelcome have stopped attending. I still couldn’t go as an openly gay man to the church I was baptized in. My partner hasn’t seen his father in many years and his family has made it clear that I would not be welcome to attend family gatherings with him.
Also, there are still many places in the US where gay people can lose their jobs for being gay. And recently won rights do not erase the effects of a life-time of oppression.
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ratio1
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I’m obviously against any real oppression. I guess we would only know when these do go away eventually. Then we would know whether that makes a difference at all.
My guess is that it won’t make much difference to the stability of gay relationships. But no one knows for sure until we reach that status. I think there are parts of the world where there really is no oppression. I would be curious to know what the data is.
My guess is that it won’t make much difference to the stability of gay relationships. But no one knows for sure until we reach that status. I think there are parts of the world where there really is no oppression. I would be curious to know what the data is.
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pocaracas
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That self control has always been hard.pocaracas:
But how does the Church fail? Self control in this day and age is hard to have on various things like lust, greed, pride, etc.
The church fails as a leader, fails at understanding human nature, while claiming to understand the ultimate “natural law”.
In this case wisdom might be mistaken for inability and conformism to such inability.
On a population level, the libido is impossible to control. Some individuals with a low libido will find it easy to control, the with a high libido will find it difficult, but manage… and some will fail to control it.
It’s all fine and dandy to propose that everyone keeps theirs in check, but it is also unrealistic to expect that everyone will; and any good wise leader should be aware of that and offer a proper solution… instead of just repeating the same old “chastity” mantra, with all the stigma associated.
Secular society is offering what seems to me to be a better solution. A chance at a life similar to that of hetero people. The result is, for the most part, an increase in overall happiness, without increasing suffering. I think it is a reasonable approach and it should be supported.
God wants?..
If god wants, then have god impose it.
Don’t get humans to impose upon their peers what some think that god wants.
Right… you keep thinking like that.
One avoids adultery by simply not engaging with other people. As a typically shy or introverted person, that has worked out great for me. No self control required. At all! And I’d imagine many others in a similar situation as mine.
However, I also imagine those who are not shy or introverts, who will be a bit more socially active and suffer all the accompanying outcomes. Certainly, not for all, but for a good part of the population.
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greenrangerx
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I would disagree with that idea. Self control is something that is learned through a lot of hard work and discipline, especially in this modern fast food culture of getting what you want when you want it. For instance, the first time I watched a movie with another gay guy, we ended up having sex. Recently, another gay guy came over to the apartment. He emphatically told me after a while that he was…excited, and pulled down his shorts. I told him “That’s nice, but I’m celibate, can you put that away please.” It took a lot of time and dedication to be able to have self control.
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theCardinalbird
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Two extensive studies published in the October 1999 issue of American Medical Association Archives of General Psychiatry confirmed the existence of a strong link between homosexuality and suicide, as well as other mental and emotional problems.
Youth who identify themselves as homosexual, lesbian and bisexual are four times more likely than their peers to suffer from major depression; three times more likely to suffer anxiety disorders, four times more likely to suffer conduct disorders, six times more likely to suffer from multiple disorders and more than six times more likely to have attempted suicide.
Many homosexual activists point their finger at homophobia as the cause of these disorders, but the most extensive studies have been done in the Netherlands and New Zealand where homosexuality is widely accepted.
In an interview with Zenit News, Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons, a child and adult psychiatrist in practice for more than 27 years, said, “Compared to controls who had no homosexual experience in the 12 months prior to the interviews, males who had any homosexual contact within that time period were much more likely to experience major depression, bipolar disorder, panic disorder, agoraphobia and obsessive compulsive disorder. Females with any homosexual contact within the previous 12 months were more often diagnosed with major depression, social phobia or alcohol dependence.”
He concluded by saying, “Men and women with a history of homosexual contact had a higher prevalence of nearly all psychiatric disorders measured in the study. These findings are the result of a lifestyle marked by rampant promiscuity and an inability to make commitments, combined with unresolved sadness, profound insecurity, anger and mistrust from childhood and adolescence.”
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tweedlealice
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DearEllipses
Concerning family and friends that are homosexual. Of course, we love them. God loves them. He created the bodyform and the Spirit within. He wants them living in sync. If we shouldn’t have tattoos (Leviticus), do you think He’d want body mutilation?
Furthermore, we are only here for a short time. We are short sighted. Birth to Death! We are Spirits in a corruptible body costume.
Where are we going when the body leaves us?
In our political correctness, are we failing our loved ones by not encouraging them in God’s Love and guidance?
God’s pattern for living brings order and function. The wordly FREE FOR ALL is chaos. Freedom has responsibility. Can we take care of our costume and Spirit??
Don’t be mad at the Conductor of the train.
(GOD) nor the ENGINEER ( the church). God’s constant love in worship strengthens us(as sinners) as we struggle to live for God and w God along our journey.
In Christ’s Love
Tweedlealice
Concerning family and friends that are homosexual. Of course, we love them. God loves them. He created the bodyform and the Spirit within. He wants them living in sync. If we shouldn’t have tattoos (Leviticus), do you think He’d want body mutilation?
Furthermore, we are only here for a short time. We are short sighted. Birth to Death! We are Spirits in a corruptible body costume.
Where are we going when the body leaves us?
In our political correctness, are we failing our loved ones by not encouraging them in God’s Love and guidance?
God’s pattern for living brings order and function. The wordly FREE FOR ALL is chaos. Freedom has responsibility. Can we take care of our costume and Spirit??
Don’t be mad at the Conductor of the train.
(GOD) nor the ENGINEER ( the church). God’s constant love in worship strengthens us(as sinners) as we struggle to live for God and w God along our journey.
In Christ’s Love
Tweedlealice
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tweedlealice
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Blessings
Your vision is myopic! Your looking at things through your eyes, not God’s. Your feelings, don’t save your soul. How can you understand w movies like: FIFTY SHADES OF GREY ?
Do you think God will say,”Come on up, you measured the best orgasm on the Richter scale!”
Gosh, that’s funny! If you believe in God, do you love Him. YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME! That includes sex! He made us sensual ppl. That triggers a romantic moment w your spouse. PURITY & CHASITY are our life’s goal/ God! SIGH…
God offers a clean, functional life w purpose w security and love and SELF-CONTROL.
Satan offers an exciting, feels good , self serving life.
It’s a coin toss! Heads is a pure, sacrificing love.
Tails is a shallow, self-serving lust!
Open their eyes and hearts, Lord. Let my words be Your words…
in Christ’s Love
Tweedlealice
Romans 1: 26-28
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.
GENESIS 19…
Your vision is myopic! Your looking at things through your eyes, not God’s. Your feelings, don’t save your soul. How can you understand w movies like: FIFTY SHADES OF GREY ?
Do you think God will say,”Come on up, you measured the best orgasm on the Richter scale!”
Gosh, that’s funny! If you believe in God, do you love Him. YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME! That includes sex! He made us sensual ppl. That triggers a romantic moment w your spouse. PURITY & CHASITY are our life’s goal/ God! SIGH…
God offers a clean, functional life w purpose w security and love and SELF-CONTROL.
Satan offers an exciting, feels good , self serving life.
It’s a coin toss! Heads is a pure, sacrificing love.
Tails is a shallow, self-serving lust!
Open their eyes and hearts, Lord. Let my words be Your words…
in Christ’s Love
Tweedlealice
Romans 1: 26-28
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.
GENESIS 19…
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ConstantLearner
Guest
No, no, no, no, no. Homosexuality does not make one into a “sexual being.” If that were the case, then heterosexuality would as well. I know several very loving homosexual couples who abstain for a variety of reasons, some medical, some not. But the love between them is still there.
Like the original poster, I, too, believe homosexuals love their partners just as much as heterosexuals do.
I am thinking of leaving the Catholic Church because of its hard stance against the LGBTQ community. I’ll join the Messianic Jews. I think the Catholic Church has forgotten that Jesus, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, commanded - not asked - but commanded us to “love one another as have loved you.” He didn’t exclude anyone, nor did he ever speak out against homosexuality, bisexuality, transgenderism, etc. He also told us to avoid judging. “Judge not lest you be so judged” (Mt. 7:1-3). I believe a person’s sexuality is between that person and God.
Like the original poster, I, too, believe homosexuals love their partners just as much as heterosexuals do.
I am thinking of leaving the Catholic Church because of its hard stance against the LGBTQ community. I’ll join the Messianic Jews. I think the Catholic Church has forgotten that Jesus, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, commanded - not asked - but commanded us to “love one another as have loved you.” He didn’t exclude anyone, nor did he ever speak out against homosexuality, bisexuality, transgenderism, etc. He also told us to avoid judging. “Judge not lest you be so judged” (Mt. 7:1-3). I believe a person’s sexuality is between that person and God.
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anaparep
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Yes, I agree that many heterosexual fall into this category also. I know of some loving beautiful homosexual couples. I cannot say what their judgment before the eyes of God is. That is not for me to say. I don’t think any of us can judge, rather we are here to help each other along the way. What I meant by a sexual being was that the act of sex becomes only for the act of sex and not for the creation of life and not using sex for the purpose God intended. In essence, sex becomes SELF INDULGENT. I will reiterate that I, personally, believe many, many heterosexuals fall into this category also. I believe EVERY ONE would be served by learning to control and subdue sexual urges. I am not a believer of our hypersexed culture telling us it’s healthy and normal to live so sexual in all aspects of life.
As to your leaving the Church over this subject is I’m sure a tough choice to make. I would whole heartedly ask you, as on any subject regarding the Church, be sure you truly understand the Church’s stance on it before making a decision. In the history of Judiasm and Christianity homosexuality has been viewed as disordered due primarily to the fact no children can be borne and the knowledge that Christ, who truly was a rebel and controversial, never revoked those beliefs. If He had wanted to, He surely would have given us a different perspective. I believe in the millions of believers before us, if the Spirit had wanted us to believe differently He would have placed it in play at some point. In the first book of the Bible, Genesis, when God created man, it explicitly states that he created a man and a woman from the man. He had intent and purpose!!! We cannot deny that no matter how we rationalize it by today’s standards, which is really a low bar.
On another end of the pendulum, I believe it’s of utmost importance that we, as the Church, the Body of Christ, need to come up with solutions to be much more inclusive of our brothers and sisters with homosexual desires. They are not lepers, merely sinners, as we all are. Again, because it’s a sex sin it’s seems to be put at the top of the list of sin with great emphasis.
I also believe one day we will all be before the throne of God to answer not only for our sins, but the sins of our brothers and sisters in where we failed them in providing example and direction. God is not obscure and unclear. He truly is succinct and we obscure. God is not changing with the times, but eternal and above the ages. I pray He has mercy on us all. Truly pray for me, please. I will pray for you.
As to your leaving the Church over this subject is I’m sure a tough choice to make. I would whole heartedly ask you, as on any subject regarding the Church, be sure you truly understand the Church’s stance on it before making a decision. In the history of Judiasm and Christianity homosexuality has been viewed as disordered due primarily to the fact no children can be borne and the knowledge that Christ, who truly was a rebel and controversial, never revoked those beliefs. If He had wanted to, He surely would have given us a different perspective. I believe in the millions of believers before us, if the Spirit had wanted us to believe differently He would have placed it in play at some point. In the first book of the Bible, Genesis, when God created man, it explicitly states that he created a man and a woman from the man. He had intent and purpose!!! We cannot deny that no matter how we rationalize it by today’s standards, which is really a low bar.
On another end of the pendulum, I believe it’s of utmost importance that we, as the Church, the Body of Christ, need to come up with solutions to be much more inclusive of our brothers and sisters with homosexual desires. They are not lepers, merely sinners, as we all are. Again, because it’s a sex sin it’s seems to be put at the top of the list of sin with great emphasis.
I also believe one day we will all be before the throne of God to answer not only for our sins, but the sins of our brothers and sisters in where we failed them in providing example and direction. God is not obscure and unclear. He truly is succinct and we obscure. God is not changing with the times, but eternal and above the ages. I pray He has mercy on us all. Truly pray for me, please. I will pray for you.
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Arbovirus
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So you’ve made your choice to live a lifestyle that others do not agree with and cannot assent to. They did not reject you – they rejected the lifestyle that you chose.
Added: Upon further reflection (along with another person’s comment below), I’d like to apologize for any emotional harm I have caused with my words. I’m also gay and if I mentally put myself in the same situation — if my family cannot accept my hypothetical same-sex partner, I really can’t fault them for it. I’m sure they would still love me and would only want me to turn away from a harmful lifestyle. They would be shunning the life I have chosen, not me per se. Anyways, I apologize for the terse and rude response.
I could delete it…but what’s done is done and is already out there.
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anaparep
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I cannot imagine the rejection this poor person has faced. Being ripped from your anchor to the earth, family, must be at the very least dizzing. I am so sorry. We all make choices and live accordingly and we ALL sin. Can you imagine if we rejected cheaters or abusers quite the same. No one would have family. We all sin. I have family members who are gay and choose to live their lifestyle that they know I’m in disagreement with. We’ve discussed it. I don’t hate them. I still love them madly. We just don’t agree. They are still my family. At every family function. Because Jesus said to love each other as I have loved you. He said you will not be defiled to be around them. Ha! I love on them like crazy and they know how I feel. You would be amazed at how they don’t try to make me uncomfortable as I don’t them. We manage. God have mercy on us all!
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vsedriver
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thank you for the tip about the little arrow. Having been a forum member for many years I’m still used to the old set up of the forum where it was considered polite to include a quote you are replying to. Takes time to learn a new set up when you are so used to an older version.
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Arbovirus
Guest
That is your family. Some families apparently cannot in good conscience condone certain things.
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