Changed my views on Homosexuality

[vsedriver]

Or, perhaps, put another way—the more educated a society becomes the less that society embraces Catholicism or religion in general.

or to put it another way–the more wealth a society gains the less that society embraces Catholicism or religion in general.

I really don’t think it is a question of education considering how many well educated people are religious.

 

[vsedriver]

I am thinking of leaving the Catholic Church because of its hard stance against the LGBTQ community

what do you see as a ‘hard stance’?

I believe a person’s sexuality is between that person and God.

Why would you say that a person’s sexuality is between the individual and God alone? Couldn’t you say that about all moral behavior?

Yes, we are called to love one another. But real love leads a person to salvation. Allowing or encouraging someone to engage in sinful behavior isn’t being loving. Fraternal correction is also part of loving our neighbor. We are not to judge the state of someone’s soul but we are supposed to judge behavior. Surely you also judge between good and bad behavior?

What do you think is the purpose of the Church. Why did Jesus found a Church? If our morals are between us and God what need do we even have of a Church?

 

[Ellipses]

I’m very happy this has created some discourse and discussion, but I am also reminded on how exactly and why my views changed! And this is, once again, of actually having friends and family come out and actually TALKING TO THEM.

It has been brought sharply into focus that Catholics and other religions must acknowledge that their so called moral “truth” specifically involving the Big 3 as I call it (Homosexuality, Masturbation and Birth Control) are in all honest OPINIONS.

Thus it is my opinion, and millions of others, that being Gay is ok. I love my Gay friends and family and will always be there to support them, at their wedding, or wherever I may be invited, and they will in turn always be welcome in my house with their spouses and friends.

 

[theCardinalbird]

I think the Catholic Church has forgotten that Jesus, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, commanded - not asked - but commanded us to “love one another as have loved you.”

But what is love then? Is love letting or even encouraging someone to live a lifestyle that could end with them experiencing eternal torment? Is that love? I don’t think so. Love is telling people they are in a destructive path and helping them leave that path to pick up their cross and follow Jesus. Jesus didn’t say the road to salvation was easy, he said it was narrow

 

[Ellipses]

@joe1 My gay friends are not on a “destructive path” at all. In fact they are happier than most people I know lol. And what do you mean by “encouraging their lifestyle?” They don’t encourage me to be straight. To answer your question, Love is impossible to describe but you know it when you’re in it.

 

[theCardinalbird]

@joe1 My gay friends are not on a “destructive path”

I’m talking about people who commit Homosexual acts. Those acts are against what God designed sex for, which is for procreation and the bond between husband and wife

 

[Ellipses]

@joe1 Again they are not on a destructive path in my opinion. Besides it’s none of my business what acts anyone does gay or straight in their own bedroom.

 

[theCardinalbird]

@joe1 Again they are not on a destructive path in my opinion. Besides it’s none of my business what acts anyone does gay or straight in their own bedroom.

That is your opinion as you said. And fine it is none of our business what two consenting adults do, that is on them. What Catholics are to do is to educate people on what is sinful or else that person could suffer for eternity.

We don’t hate Homosexual people, the Church especially doesn’t hate Homosexual people and wants to protect them

 

[Ellipses]

@joe1 It is yours, and the Church’s OPINION that homosexual acts are wrong. This is not a moral truth to ALL people and many don’t agree with the Church’s position, including myself. Which is why I created this thread.

 

[theCardinalbird]

It is yours, and the Church’s OPINION that homosexual acts are wrong. This is not a moral truth to ALL people and many don’t agree with the Church’s position, including myself. Which is why I created this thread.

Ok

(16 characters)

 

[anaparep]

I understand it is my family. We certainly don’t condone it, neither do we reject and punish, which is the intent of alienating someone. You’d be amazed if you expressed yourself to someone and let them.know your heart how they’ll respect you and try not to make you feel out of place or put you in the position of having to draw lines. And making people feel like lepers and pushing them out is exactly what Jesus called out the righteous as hipocrites for. We all sin. They just sin in a particular way that people get mighty high on their moral horse to look down upon. I’ve reflected that if I ever don’t buy food when I see a homeless person or gossip or use birth control or have abortions or am driven by wealth or kill a person’s spirit, until I am free of my sins, who am I to do anything “in good conscience”. I am them. I choose sin. Day in and day out. A different sin, but sin nonetheless.

I can try and guide in their shortcomings, but I can GUARANTEE you they can guide me in others. Every person has value and are worthy of the love of God. If we are cut off from God because we chose to sin then none of us are worthy. NOT ONE.

 

[SuperLuigi]

But I do know more about what most gay people experience than almost any straight person.

Doesn’t matter. No extra moral authority for you!

Lots of people have pride parades beside gay people. What do you think that military parade that Trump wants to have is? And what about St. Patrick’s Day parades? You’re not going to claim, are you, that “If being American or being Irish were so great, there wouldn’t be a need for a military parade or a St. Patrick’s Day parade”?

Apples and oranges.

Straight people don’t have parades to celebrate who they are. Why do homosexuals need that if they and especially their relationships are equal?

 

[SuperLuigi]

My gay friends are not on a “destructive path” at all. In fact they are happier than most people I know lol.

If they were, they wouldn’t need to be soliciting third party approval for their relationships or break down if someone doesn’t bake them a cake.

Also, ending your statement with “lol” speaks volumes…

 

[Arbovirus]

That is all true. What is the prudent and charitable way? Is there a way to accept the person but not the sin?

Would it be compromise to pretend Steve is bringing over his “friend” to dinner?

Fine line between accepting and welcoming?

 

[tweedlealice]

Blessings
I said, Jesus loves all but not our sin. That’s anybodies sins. They are no worse than all sins. Sin is the absence of being in God’s grace. Judgement is not repeating God’s words to ppl. Judgement is telling someone their end destination. I can quote scripture to inform ppl that their life style is out of alignment w God’s word. I can’t tell them they are going to heaven or hell.
We can’t change who God is or what He wants. Why did He leave a pathway for us to follow.
Like mildew in the Old Testament. GET RID OF IT-Mildew causes diseases. Clorox wasn’t around then, plus today, Black mold is deadly.
God is a strong disciplinarian. Things disturbed me in OT. I stopped reading it. Of course, there are great things in the OT. I read it today. Jesus came to give us an alternative stress on Love. But, He gave two great commandments. LOVE GOD W YOUR WHOLE HEART, YOUR WHOLE STRENGTH & WHOLE MIND. & to LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR, AS YOU ARE TO LOVE YOURSELF.
Now, Jesus, also, said” I COME, NOT TO CANCEL THE OT, BUT TO FULFIILL IT. So, we have all the behavior suggestions to continue. I’m guessing, sharia law punishments are stopped. We are to love all ppl to life in Christ.
Read the Bible! It’s the map to heaven. It’s not my plan. It is GODS!
Homosexuality has existed a long time in pagan times before Christ. The population was smaller but homosexuality and bisexuality existed normally w heterosexuality. The movie of the Three Hundred about a Greek war-all were gay! Bath houses, etc. AS THE SPIRIT MOVES YOU. Like Iraq and Afghanistan, beastiality, young boys are normal… GRRRR! If gay, you’re stoned. I have no answer for that.
I’m sorry, Love God’s children to truth and salvation. What feels good is not always good for you. SHORT TERM AND LONG TERM GOALS
IN Christ’s Love
Tweedlealice

 

[Arbovirus]

The thing is our opinions don’t matter to truth. As Catholics, we believe moral truth is taught and explained by the Church. One is free to accept or reject, whether the ratio is trillion to one, or one to a trillion. Hopefully, accept.

 

[anaparep]

Unless I am willing to ask every person the status of their sex life and birth control options then I say nothing. Now mind you these people will have had no doubt as to where I stand because they know beforehand my feelings because I’ve talked to them about it over a meal or something. So if they bring their significant other I’ve had no instance where any of them have done anything or been disrespectful in front of me. I love their partners also. They know how I feel and they understand and choose to understand me. I can see them separate from their sin, as I would hope they would me. I wouldn’t allow any cosleeping etc under my roof, but seeing them at functions has been fine. The Church doesn’t see homosexuality as being a sin, only the act. I treat them with compassion. It truky must be hard. Self realization and control of their desires must be a huge cross to bear. Huge. If I can be okay with two timing Uncle Bob or Thief Aunt Sally then I can make a way. Is it better for them to believe they’re so far gone they say better to live in dark or sin or be loved and told of Jesus constantly and reminded of repentance and forgivenss? I don’t know.

 

[theCardinalbird]

We are of course supposed to love everyone, even if they live in sin. Jesus Christ ate with the tax collectors and prostitutes, he never affirmed their way of living, he wanted to heal them and bring them to the faith and make them leave their ungodly ways. People who commit Homosexual acts are still human and should be loved.

While some of these people may not follow a godly life and may commit these acts, we are to still love them yes? We of course hate the sin because it destroys their relationship with the Almighty, and it doesn’t make sense to say we love someone but affirm a lifestyle that could cause them so much pain and land them in hell.

Edit That is why we stress forgiveness and tell them they can change and find God in their lives, as @Arbovirus mentioned

 

[Arbovirus]

Is it better for them to believe they’re so far gone they say better to live in dark or sin or be loved and told of Jesus constantly and reminded of repentance and forgivenss?

I guess the tricky part is those who are living in different lifestyles don’t believe they are living in sin. How do we get to that step if someone doesn’t believe it’s contrary to God? Without that, there’s no repentance…

Hope and pray I suppose…is there anything more humanly possible?

 

[QContinuum]

Please do understand though that many of us who believe in and defend the church are often subjected to ridicule and scorn from a vast number of those "liberals (many of whom are apostate Catholics) and our use of the term liberal is most often directed to that crowd.

Although I identify as an independent, politically-speaking, I find the pejorative use of the term “liberal” to cover any and all bad behavior to be quite tiresome. I long for the days when two persons, one progressive and the other conservative, could sit down and have an intelligent talk about a variety of subjects over cigars and brandy.

Now, most discussions are a contest of sneers and attacks.

Thank you, Internet.

To get to the point, ex-Catholics (or really anybody) who subject you to ridicule and scorn for the simple fact of your beliefs, do so because they are rude, boorish persons. Not because they are liberal. I know this because I’ve encountered the same ilk across all political lines, religions, and educational backgrounds.