Changed my views on Homosexuality

[eann]

We cannot always rely on our conscience. Where do we go to seek council?

 

[QwertyGirl]

We cannot always rely on our conscience. Where do we go to seek council?

I think we can rely on our conscience way more than most people do. However, if one feels they can’t or they shouldn’t, then they should seek council from whoever they trust. For some that may be religious folks (priests, spiritual advisors, etc.) For others, it may be a trusted friend or family member. Others may choose to reflect on the Bible, or other written works they find valuable. Personally, I think when most people get in trouble with their conscience it is because they don’t take the time to listen to it, question it, reflect on it, etc. We always want a quick easy answer. We don’t want to have to do the hard work. But that is just me. I am agnostic, of course. If I feel I can’t or shouldn’t trust my conscience on an issue what I do is I seek (name removed by moderator)ut from as many trustworthy sources as possible. Then I make a decision. Just recently I was in this position and I consulted with: my sister, my professional mentor, my mom’s priest, and a book I have that gives great insight into how and why we make the decisions we do. After weighing all of the advice and insight I received, I was able to make a decision that I felt was the correct one.

 

[Spyridon]

cannot in my heart of hearts believe that their love for their same sex spouses and friends is in any way a sin or wro

Who said their love for each other is wrong? The Church doesn’t teach that.

The Church only teaches that homosexual sex is wrong, not that chaste gay love is wrong.

 

[eann]

And how can we be assured the people we turn to are advising us correctly? Who advised them? Where do we find fundamental “correct” ways to behave? how do we know what they are?

 

[QwertyGirl]

And how can we be assured the people we turn to are advising us correctly? Who advised them? Where do we find fundamental “correct” ways to behave? how do we know what they are?

I judge what I see. That means I judge actions. I would never seek advice from someone whose actions, on a regular basis, I don’t admire or agree with. You sort of made my point. I would never put all of my eggs in one basket when seeking council or advice for a matter of conscience. I use it as an opportunity to learn more about the world around me. Most problems and issues can be resolved by using multiple methods. I educate myself and then make choices accordingly. It is not that hard for me to do because I have a core value system that I strive to live by. It is a very tangible thing. I can write it on paper. There are 9 components to it. I tweak it as I grow and learn, but as long as I follow it I am comfortable in my own skin in my words and my deeds.

Eta: To be clear, I didn’t just invent a value system for myself. I was raised Catholic, so much of my value system is based on the part of Catholic teachings I find to be true. I have also pulled from Jewish teachings. I listen to atheists and other agnostics and have pulled from concepts I have learned from them. And yes, I do a lot of self-reflection, based on my experience and the constant education I receive by being a member of the human race and observing what I see. It works for me. I am fine with others having different value systems than me, as long as it harms no one. If I see harm, I will call it out. I see it as a very subjective thing, and I am completely OK with that. I believe good usually prevails.

 

[eann]

My feelings are the waters get murky when you do not stick with one, ultimate value system. That is not to say that you cannot learn from them all.

 

[abucs]

Wow, friend. That is quite an assumption about what I believe.

Reality is either from an intelligence or from a non intelligence.

When it comes right down to it the non intelligence option is not wonderful. Perhaps you haven’t realised that yet.

You keep telling people you are agnostic and yet you keep wanting to talk in religious terms. Quite honestly I don’t think you’ve thought things through.

You want to talk about sin and creation and design and then keep telling everyone you are agnostic. That is not a rational position.

Perhaps you need to flesh out your own position of what you actually do believe a little more rationally and consistently.

 

[Arbovirus]

@qwertygirl were you Catholic before (or some other faith) before being agnostic?

 

[QwertyGirl]

Plenty of agnostic people like to believe there is a God. If you fall into that camp, as I do, the only way to discuss God with religious people is to bring religion into it. That includes using terminology the other can understand. I don’t believe in the concept of sin, but I do believe people can do things they shouldn’t be doing. I use the word “sin” here, because it is what seems to be the acceptable terms to most people in this forum.

You sound rather arrogant and close-minded to me, to be honest. That isn’t an attack on you, it is just feedback as to how you appear to me.

If you think I haven’t thought things through, and I think you are close-minded, then we are probably at an impasse with regards to this conversation.

 

[QwertyGirl]

@arbovirus, I was raised Catholic. I never was a believer though, to be honest. I went to catholic school K-12.

 

[Arbovirus]

I don’t believe in the concept of sin

But you do believe in right/wrong, justice and injustice, no?

 

[QwertyGirl]

But you do believe in right/wrong, justice and injustice, no?

Most definitely. I just don’t believe in judgement by a God. I also don’t believe in Hell, or Heaven for that matter (in the way it is presented by the Church). I do hope there is an afterlife, but I don’t think the quality of it depends on how we conduct ourselves in this world.

 

[Arbovirus]

God is Justice. (but more importantly for us, Mercy)

 

[abucs]

Plenty of agnostic people like to believe there is a God. If you fall into that camp, as I do, the only way to discuss God with religious people is to bring religion into it. That includes using terminology the other can understand. I don’t believe in the concept of sin, but I do believe people can do things they shouldn’t be doing. I use the word “sin” here, because it is what seems to be the acceptable terms to most people in this forum.

You sound rather arrogant and close-minded to me, to be honest. That isn’t an attack on you, it is just feedback as to how you appear to me.

If you think I haven’t thought things through, and I think you are close-minded, then we are probably at an impasse with regards to this conversation.

and if you admit to using terminology that you don’t believe in but are claiming you need to because others will understand you then you are admitting to not being consistent in your position and having a low opinion of the capabilities of people you are discussing with. That certainly seems close minded to me.

If you are an agnostic then talk as an agnostic and have respect for the people that you talk with that they can understand you for who you actually are.

 

[meltzerboy2]

This sounds to me like a balanced approach toward life. If it works for you, then I think it is a good approach. It may not work for others, and certainly not for everyone, including many or most members of this Forum. But since you are tolerant of others’ viewpoints and beliefs, so much the better.

 

[QwertyGirl]

God is Justice. (but more importantly for us, Mercy)

I believe in justice of the worldly kind. You kill someone, you go to prison. It is just because the rest of the people have a right to not be afraid they are next. I don’t believe in a god of justice or mercy, because I don’t believe God judges. It isnt necessary.

 

[QwertyGirl]

This sounds to me like a balanced approach toward life. If it works for you, then I think it is a good approach. It may not work for others, and certainly not for everyone, including many or most members of this Forum. But since you are tolerant of others’ viewpoints and beliefs, so much the better.

Thank you Meltzer boy, for your kind words and understanding.

 

[JimG]

It seems to me that nearly everyone has a disordered view of sex in some way, especially in the last century or so where it seems as though it is made into the most important thing in life.

In Genesis is described the creation of man and woman, male and female He created them; describing their complementarity, then told them to fill the earth. Procreation is a male/female activity requiring sexual complementarity.

The word “marital” refers to the act which can only be done between man and woman, as Anthony Esolen calls it, the “baby making thing.”

So regardless of what one’s personal feelings are, if you want a family, you have to marry the opposite sex. Same sex couples can never be marital. It’s impossible. If it’s not marital, it’s not marriage.

 

[JanSobieskiIII]

If there’s no higher authority, why is it wrong? If we’re just animals, same as any other, why do our lives or deaths matter?

 

[Arbovirus]

The very fact that you understand the concept of justice is because we are made in the image of God. We see justice as good and beneficial and necessary.

Someone who goes to prison does not go to prison because people are afraid. They go to prison because they committed evil.

Judgement of good/evil, right/wrong is carried out even in the secular world. You cannot deny that.

People say “That is wrong” “That is not right” “That is pure evil” when describing certain things. They do so because their consciences know that some things are intrinsically bad — not only because they are “afraid”.