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kristenj239
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Pray for your friend/family. I am pretty sure that you already know that it is wrong otherwise you would not be asking. That doesn’t mean that you should stop talking to them though. Everyone sins.
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guanophore
Guest
This is not accurate.
A person with same sex attraction cannot always “move on and live like a straight person”. They are called to chastity, but cannot necessarily change their sexual orientation. A person with same sex attraction will struggle with this inclination, whether they express it physically or not.
2351 Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.
The inclination itself is considered morally disordered.
Chastity and homosexuality
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm
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guanophore
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This is like asking why some people are born with the genitalia of both male and female, or why some people find themselves having no empathy and interested in violating the rights of others. We live in a fallen world, and we suffer the consequences of original sin. There are a number of disorders in this world, like multiple sclerosis, cancers, etc.
I can’t imagine what you mean by this. We are all called to chastity. Unmarried persons are to refrain from sex, as well as divorced persons, priests, religious and others. Married persons are called to refrain from having sex with persons to whom they are not married. None of this is shunning, or forcing them to “do something repulsive”. How is it repulsive to control one’s sexual urges? What if one is attracted to sex with children? Is it repulsive to refrain?
The Church is not encouraging persons with same sex attraction to pretend they don’t have it.
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Prodigal_Son
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That’s precisely what I said. I said that “inclinations … are disordered.” An attraction and an inclination are the same. The Church does not say that the PEOPLE who have the attraction are disordered. That’s the only point I was trying to make.
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curious_cath
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There are cases when a youngster matured, gave up gay inclination and became a straight person with family and kids. I would say to any gay person: it is possible, so do not exclude it from your life plans.
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Prodigal_Son
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I don’t understand the connection between “giving up the gay inclination” (if such a thing were possible) and starting a family with kids.
It’s like you’re saying, “Jill gave up her autism and took up knitting”. The two things have next to nothing to do with each other. Getting married is an action that people with all sorts of inclinations can take – though it is unwise for some of them to do so.
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QwertyGirl
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Then they weren’t gay to begin with. You can’t “pray away the gay” . This is a very damaging concept that has hurt so many people. Typically what happens is they marry and have kids, then realize they can’t live the dishonest life of staying in the closet. It is traumatic for them, as well as their families they have created. Please stop advocating for this type of thing. In all charity, you sound quite uneducated on the topic and should consider learning about this matter if you feel the need to advise others about it.
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joeybaggz
Guest
And as Sheen has said, “a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it, and the truth is the truth even though no one believes it.” But then again, anyone defending the direction of society against the guidance of the RCC and its leaders, isn’t going to listen to common sense, regardless of where it comes from.
But then again, lets not let common sense get in the way of one’s prejudice.
And again, that’s not exactly uncommon among those whose “hate” the church and what she teaches.
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Arbovirus
Guest
Beyond the physical attraction, there’s a psychological component, I think, about orientation that isn’t necessarily about sin or not.
As a SSA person, I have no interest in the opposite sex. I’m not remotely curious about them.
But I feel intrigued by the same sex. Maybe I didn’t socialize/develop properly in the early days, who knows.
As a SSA person, I have no interest in the opposite sex. I’m not remotely curious about them.
But I feel intrigued by the same sex. Maybe I didn’t socialize/develop properly in the early days, who knows.
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curious_cath
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Actually, holy matrimony in the Catholic church is a life commitment. This is how it works.
Gay people assume that their inclination is necessarily hard wired. For some, it might be. For others, it is not. It is like running 100 m in 20 seconds. Some people can do it, some others cannot. We are all different.
Is this a dogma?
I know people who lived the gay life as young and became absolutely reliable mothers afterward. You just want to tell people with adventurous life style that they have to feel like a gay forever. Not true! You just want to entrap them in a dead end. But some of them are not hardwired to be gay. Not at all. They may be silly, even crazy and totally irresponsible sometimes. But they will get over it. Some of them can break free and eventually be a normal woman.
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QwertyGirl
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My point is that they were then not gay to begin with. Sexual experimentation with the same sex does not make someone gay. Either you are gay or you aren’t. There is no, “I am gay today, but tomorrow I will stop being gay”. Activity does not define sexual orientation.Is this a dogma?
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Prodigal_Son
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When did I deny that? I myself am married – for life, praise the Lord! I did not in the course of my vows vow never to involuntarily find a man attractive from that day forward.
Sure, but are there any methods for getting rid of the inclination? Are they reliable?
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curious_cath
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Haha! Who would know that in advance? Perhaps God Almighty?
You say someone is only gay if this person cannot overcome his/ her lifestyle. But nobody has a label in the forehead. If someone is involved in gay sex, then that person acts as a gay person. If the same person moves on from that lifestyle, then that person stops acting like a gay person.
You say the person was not even gay. But who are you to judge someone if that person is gay or not? The fact is the gay act that makes someone gay. You cannot say that person was not gay because stopped acting like a gay. Did you know in advance that this person will overcome? No! Of course, you could not! Whatever you say in retrospect is something you cannot say before.
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Arbovirus
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A celibate gay person is gay. Or has same-sex attraction. They can describe the same thing.
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Prodigal_Son
Guest
Once you realize that people use this word differently, and your meaning is not the generally used meaning, perhaps we can communicate more effectively.
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QwertyGirl
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You are conflating being gay with gay activity. They aren’t the same thing. If someone suggested to you that if you participated in a homosexual activity, that would mean you were no longer straight, do you think that is a correct statement?
Education is key here, and I suggest you read up on this issue.
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curious_cath
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No, it is actually a philosophical statement. You are not what you think you are. You are what you do.
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gracepoole
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I’m sure He’s relieved.
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Arbovirus
Guest
Sexual orientation is not defined by action. It’s defined by most people with the initial attraction.
Lifestyle is the action.
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Prodigal_Son
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If you think of “gay” as a morally blameworthy thing, then yes, you are right that what is blameworthy must involve ACTION. But you cannot change the language simply by saying that another way of using words would be more useful. In reality, “gay” means “attracted to the same sex, and not to the opposite sex”. Words have objective meanings, even if we find the meanings odious.
A child who is same-sex attracted in this culture will understand themselves to be “gay” or “bisexual”, because of the meanings of those words. A boy in that situation will not think that having sex with a girl makes him any less gay. Those are the plain facts.
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