Changing times and Sola Scriptura

[ralphinal]

What are you trying to prove here? What does sola scriptura have to do with what you are trying to assert? What’s the corner you are wanting to paint us in? What’s the point?

I want to see where they stand on issues and why. There are things that are evil that are not in the Bible. We know this. Just trying to see on what basis they condemn them.

 

[reteeks21]

I want to see where they stand on issues and why. There are things that are evil that are not in the Bible. We know this. Just trying to see on what basis they condemn them.

Gotcha, but I don’t understand what that has to do with sola scriptura.

 

[ralphinal]

Gotcha, but I don’t understand what that has to do with sola scriptura.

Because there are Christians that hold that the Bible and the Bible alone is the sole rule of faith and morals. Some things are not listed in the Bible and I want to see how they meld the two. I thought it would be an interesting thought experiment.

 

[justasking4]

Because there are Christians that hold that the Bible and the Bible alone is the sole rule of faith and morals. Some things are not listed in the Bible and I want to see how they meld the two. I thought it would be an interesting thought experiment.

If the Bible either explicitedly does not condemn something or it violates no Biblical principle would it be wrong to do or not do something ?

 

[guanophore]

If the Bible either explicitedly does not condemn something or it violates no Biblical principle would it be wrong to do or not do something ?

I think this is a common error that poeple make. They don’t see it in their bible, therefore, it is not wrong. For instance, Jesus or the Apostles do not write that it is wrong to have an abortion, use birth control, or have homosexual marriage, so they think it is ok.

 

[ralphinal]

I think this is a common error that poeple make. They don’t see it in their bible, therefore, it is not wrong. For instance, Jesus or the Apostles do not write that it is wrong to have an abortion, use birth control, or have homosexual marriage, so they think it is ok.

Correct. Take human cloning. There is nothing close to it in the Bible. Is it wrong?

An older example is slavery. Some held that Biblically, it is fine to own slaves. Is this true?

 

[a_mirror_dimly]

I think this is a common error that poeple make. They don’t see it in their bible, therefore, it is not wrong. For instance, Jesus or the Apostles do not write that it is wrong to have an abortion, use birth control, or have homosexual marriage, so they think it is ok.

In the case of those cases, the relevant phrase is justasking’s 2nd one “violates Biblical principal”. Certainly there are very clear passages forbidding homosexual behavior, and affirming the sanctity of life within the womb. We do not have to throw up our hands and say that insider trading is amoral because it is not specificially mentioned, for the Bible says “Do not Steal”.

 

[ralphinal]

In the case of those cases, the relevant phrase is justasking’s 2nd one “violates Biblical principal”. Certainly there are very clear passages forbidding homosexual behavior, and affirming the sanctity of life within the womb. We do not have to throw up our hands and say that insider trading is amoral because it is not specificially mentioned, for the Bible says “Do not Steal”.

Alright…
Human Cloning?

Environment?

IUDs?

Abortifacient medication?

 

[a_mirror_dimly]

Alright…
Human Cloning?

Environment?

IUDs?

Abortifacient medication?

On the environment we can look to Genesis and the God’s entrusting of humanity with the stewardship of creation.

For the others, we look again the principals of love and the sanctity of life asking ourselves, “Is this behavior consist with the love of Christ and the will of God?” I believe that in the cases you mentioned it is fairly clear, but I believe that the only sure guide for Truth is found in scripture. Beyond that we seek God’s will in prayerful consideration and with the support of our brethren…it is not God’s desire to play “gotcha” with humanity.

I know that answer is not going to be satisfactory to you because you say “but the Church can step in and provide true direction on these points”, but while we would be remiss not to seek the guidance of others in questions of faith, we can only have certainty in Truth through that which is of the revelation of God.

I almost hesitate to post this, for it is not my desire to promote division within the church. Where scripture is clear we must stand for the Truth, but where there is clear uncertainty I would rather invite a believer into fellowship and pray for discernment of the Truth and grace for us to love each other at do His work in spite of our disagreements than to turn him away.

 

[reteeks21]

I think this is a common error that poeple make. They don’t see it in their bible, therefore, it is not wrong. For instance, Jesus or the Apostles do not write that it is wrong to have an abortion, use birth control, or have homosexual marriage, so they think it is ok.

I do not think I have ever heard one Christian use this arguement. Nothing on abortion? How about “thou shall not murder”. Homosexualuality is thoroughly addressed, and as far as birth control, that is something we would need to sit down and look at Scripture to decide where each one of us stands and why.

 

[ralphinal]

I do not think I have ever heard one Christian use this arguement. Nothing on abortion? How about “thou shall not murder”. Homosexualuality is thoroughly addressed, and as far as birth control, that is something we would need to sit down and look at Scripture to decide where each one of us stands and why.

Two things, we had a thread on here that went long where the pro-homosexual act people were using the claim that Jesus told us to love one another, and that was the new Law. 100% of what they claimed was scriptural. They countered every other claim by hold it was ambiguous or OT and no longer valid. SO it does occure.

I am interested in your idea of “where each of us stands and why” concept. Do you hold that morality is based on individual concepts or is it universal?

 

[MarcoPolo]

Oh regarding the original post, I do think you can use Scriptural principles in the cases where Scripture does not get into specifics.

Perhaps an example? Curious do you believe Scripture is the sole source of revelation?

 

[guanophore]

I do not think I have ever heard one Christian use this arguement.

I wish I had not!

Nothing on abortion? How about “thou shall not murder”.

Scripture does not specify that the soul enters the zygote at the moment of conception. Therefore, if the zygote or embryo is destroyed in a timely manner, it is only the “by products of conception”, and not a person.

Homosexualuality is thoroughly addressed, and as far as birth control, that is something we would need to sit down and look at Scripture to decide where each one of us stands and why.

Oh the twisting I have seen on this issue. However, what you state here is the fundamental flaw of Sola Scriptura. When each one “sits down and decides” we each make ourselves the standard of interpretation. That is why there are so many divergent views.

 

[justasking4]

I do not think I have ever heard one Christian use this arguement. Nothing on abortion? How about “thou shall not murder”. Homosexualuality is thoroughly addressed, and as far as birth control, that is something we would need to sit down and look at Scripture to decide where each one of us stands and why.

The Scriptures are silent on birth control methods.

 

[guanophore]

The Scriptures are silent on birth control methods.

Well, we read it differently.

 

[justasking4]

Originally Posted by justasking4
The Scriptures are silent on birth control methods.

guanophore
Well, we read it differently.

What chapter and verse makes you think that the scriptrues address birth contro methods?

 

[guanophore]

What chapter and verse makes you think that the scriptrues address birth contro methods?

God created them man and woman, and commanded them to be fruitful and multiply. Use of the marital embrace in such a manner that thwarts God’s fruititive and unitive function is outside of His will. He intended that a man and woman give themselves fully and freely in love, just as He Himself has done. Prevention of the fruit of love is contrary.

 

[ralphinal]

If we take the totality of Scriptures, we can rule out some birth control methods on the spot.

Abortion and anything that causes an abortion is ruled out automatically. That includes a good per centage of the birth control pills on the market as they include an abortifacient quality. This also rules out the IUD as they prevent implantation of the zygote, creating a de facto abortion.

So, we are now left with some birth control pills, spermicide, barrier methods, withdrawal, and NFP. I am missing some, but this is enough to discuss. All of these save one have something in common. CAre to guess it?

 

[guanophore]

If we take the totality of Scriptures, we can rule out some birth control methods on the spot.

Abortion and anything that causes an abortion is ruled out automatically. That includes a good per centage of the birth control pills on the market as they include an abortifacient quality. This also rules out the IUD as they prevent implantation of the zygote, creating a de facto abortion.

So, we are now left with some birth control pills, spermicide, barrier methods, withdrawal, and NFP. I am missing some, but this is enough to discuss. All of these save one have something in common. CAre to guess it?

NFP is not a form of birth control. It is a form of control over the timing of the unitive act, not the results thereof.

 

[ralphinal]

NFP is not a form of birth control. It is a form of control over the timing of the unitive act, not the results thereof.

Correct, but I put it in there for a reason. It was granted to us by God in the creation of the reproductive system.

If God put a built in way, that when used correctly is as effective as ABC, why not use it?