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VanitasVanitatum
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They are all parts to a whole and it can be pointed out when one part is not good.
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Chaperones lead Catholic schoolgirls out from "Nutcracker Suite" performance with same-sex roles, causing criticism, agreement
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Freddy
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So is a person who commits mortal sin on a regular basis (as far as you are concerned) and does not repent a bad person?Freddy:
They are all parts to a whole and it can be pointed out when one part is not good.
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VanitasVanitatum
Guest
I’d say so.
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Freddy
Guest
So how does ‘hate the sin but live the sinner’ then apply?Freddy:
I’d say so.
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VanitasVanitatum
Guest
It would be in discouraging that type of behavior while still recieving them warmly.
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Freddy
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That’s what I don’t get. I don’t invite people I consider to be bad into my home. Least of all ‘warmly’.Freddy:
It would be in discouraging that type of behavior while still recieving them warmly.
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VanitasVanitatum
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There are other ways to do it that don’t involve inviting people over, but being kind to one’s enemies is still one of the Christian values even though it might not be practiced that often.
You asked if an unrepentant mortal sinner was a bad person, not if anyone hated them.
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Annie
Guest
Consider a mother whose son is a drug addict. She may reduse to allow him to live in her house or ecen come over, but she still loves him, the essence of him buried beneath that badness.
No one can possibly be 100% bad. And we should always pray for their repentance and conversion, ie, love them. That doesn’t mean we have to let them into our homes.
On a different note of loving people: would you pick up a dying homeless man, stinking of who knows what, with oozing sores on his body?
St Mother Teresa did. She took him to a place where he could be cared for in some small amount of dignity instead of dying on the streets. She did not look at him and see a bad person even tho most of the Hindus around them did.
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No one can possibly be 100% bad. And we should always pray for their repentance and conversion, ie, love them. That doesn’t mean we have to let them into our homes.
On a different note of loving people: would you pick up a dying homeless man, stinking of who knows what, with oozing sores on his body?
St Mother Teresa did. She took him to a place where he could be cared for in some small amount of dignity instead of dying on the streets. She did not look at him and see a bad person even tho most of the Hindus around them did.
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Ender
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OK, several things here. First, I agree that there are degrees of sin, and that our response to those who engage in them is tempered by their severity.
Second, you have your own personal sin ranking, but if sin is a personal construct then your opinion of what others believe is no more relevant than your opinion of their taste in music. There is no actual basis for holding that one set of preferences (music, sin…) is better than another…and therefore no basis for objecting to the action the chaperones took.
This gets a little deeper. If sin is merely a personal belief then it really can’t be said to exist. If you believe gay sex is acceptable and I believe it is not, can either of us be said to be “right” in a rational sense? There is no way to settle the question. The only way either of us could be right is if morality exists independently of our preferences, that is, if there really is a right answer. Otherwise morality is just another personality quirk akin to our preferences in music and food.
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EndTimes
Guest
Yes… a shift…
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Freddy
Guest
But you aren’t simply saying ‘I think gay sex is wrong’ like you’d say ‘I think that music is boring’. You are giving reasons for it. I’m not disagreeing with your moral views per se. I’m arguing against the reasons why you tell me you hold them.
You say that gay sex is harmful. I’m sure that in some circumstances you’d be right. But you go further and say that all gay sex at all times in all circumstances is harmful. And there you are obviously wrong. Unless you want to claim it’s only spiritually wrong.
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Freddy
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The question still applies. How do you separate the one from the other?Freddy:
You asked if an unrepentant mortal sinner was a bad person, not if anyone hated them.
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EndTimes
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I think you need to clarify what exactly you’re asking.
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Thorolfr
Guest
And straight sex can also be harmful in some circumstances. But there isn’t anything intrinsic to gay sex that makes it more harmful than straight sex if supposed spiritual harms are excluded.Freddy:
Izzat so? Right? as in True? Is what you feel/believe?
Just askin’…
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Agnus-Dei
Guest
Concerning women as priests:
1 Timothy 2, verse 8-14. Begin.
Not likely to change.
Dominus vobiscum
1 Timothy 2, verse 8-14. Begin.
Not likely to change.
Dominus vobiscum
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Kindnessmatters
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You are parsing matters of faith pretty oddly.
Catholics believe God created the universe and everything in it. As the designer and creator, he instructed us how to best live our lives. We do believe that living as He commanded is virtuous and brings us closer to him, and that defying his wishes is sinful and creates distance between us and God.
That said, his advice is very practical as well, which is why he instructed us thus. For example, you defend sex outside of marriage as fine. Well, taking morality out of the question, even if you only look at practical consequences, it’s a bit like drunk driving. It often breaks up marriages, results in unwanted pregnancy, creates hurt feelings when it leads to deeper feelings on one person’s side than the other. The lack of commitment can cause confusion and upset, transmission of STDs and more. It doesn’t happen every time but often enough to be imprudent and impractical. Just like drunk driving doesn’t always end in disaster, it is still not a prudent or practical idea given the risk.
Or stealing…it’s a sin and for that primary reason, Catholics avoid the behavior. It is also impractical…if we all thought stealing was fine, we couldn’t support ourselves. Only the best thieves would have anything, not those who found, earned or made things.
To fairly look at faith, you cannot separate common sense, practicality and faith. We are faithful because it makes sense. Prayer itself is highly practical…it literally brings us closer to God, and serves countless practical purposes, not the least of which is to prepare us for heaven. The fact you don’t believe in prayer or heaven does not negate the reality of either. Thinking so is like denying Denmark exists because you haven’t been there.
Catholics believe God created the universe and everything in it. As the designer and creator, he instructed us how to best live our lives. We do believe that living as He commanded is virtuous and brings us closer to him, and that defying his wishes is sinful and creates distance between us and God.
That said, his advice is very practical as well, which is why he instructed us thus. For example, you defend sex outside of marriage as fine. Well, taking morality out of the question, even if you only look at practical consequences, it’s a bit like drunk driving. It often breaks up marriages, results in unwanted pregnancy, creates hurt feelings when it leads to deeper feelings on one person’s side than the other. The lack of commitment can cause confusion and upset, transmission of STDs and more. It doesn’t happen every time but often enough to be imprudent and impractical. Just like drunk driving doesn’t always end in disaster, it is still not a prudent or practical idea given the risk.
Or stealing…it’s a sin and for that primary reason, Catholics avoid the behavior. It is also impractical…if we all thought stealing was fine, we couldn’t support ourselves. Only the best thieves would have anything, not those who found, earned or made things.
To fairly look at faith, you cannot separate common sense, practicality and faith. We are faithful because it makes sense. Prayer itself is highly practical…it literally brings us closer to God, and serves countless practical purposes, not the least of which is to prepare us for heaven. The fact you don’t believe in prayer or heaven does not negate the reality of either. Thinking so is like denying Denmark exists because you haven’t been there.
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Peter_Jericho
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Hi ConsistantlyBaffled. I’m Catholic and support the Church’s teaching, but if we were talking about a change that didn’t go against Church teaching I wouldn’t necessarily have a problem with it (assuming it is done well).
In concrete terms, do you have a problem with Cinderfella and Ghostbusters changing the genders of characters?
In concrete terms, do you have a problem with Cinderfella and Ghostbusters changing the genders of characters?
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Peter_Jericho
Guest
In art and in life, there are many things that we don’t need to know. We can see gay characters without learning whether they are sexually active – in much the same way that we can see an engaged couple without learning whether they are waiting-till-marriage.
And so on and so forth.
And so on and so forth.
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