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water
Guest
I agreed!
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nkmeck
Guest
I think it’s important that we make this distinction here so people won’t get confused. Feel free to correct me, if I’m off base.
There is a difference between speaking in tongues and praying in tongues. Speaking in tongues requires someone to have the gift of interpretation of tongues. Generally this is rare. Maybe it’s not rare, but I’ve only seen anyone operate in this gift once. Praying in tongues is generally what you’ll run into around charismatics. St. Paul tells us in Romans “the Spirit too comes to the aid of our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit itself intercedes with inexpressible groanings.” (8:26) Hence the gift of praying in tongues. Those with the gift simply allow the Holy Spirit to pray for them. Frankly, I’d rather have Him do it for me anyway.
There is a difference between speaking in tongues and praying in tongues. Speaking in tongues requires someone to have the gift of interpretation of tongues. Generally this is rare. Maybe it’s not rare, but I’ve only seen anyone operate in this gift once. Praying in tongues is generally what you’ll run into around charismatics. St. Paul tells us in Romans “the Spirit too comes to the aid of our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit itself intercedes with inexpressible groanings.” (8:26) Hence the gift of praying in tongues. Those with the gift simply allow the Holy Spirit to pray for them. Frankly, I’d rather have Him do it for me anyway.
M
mercygate
Guest
When Fr. Randall described his original encounter with charismatic gifts, it was after a meeting with (gasp!) a Pentecostal, David Wilkerson, whose ministry in Brooklyn was ablaze with virtually miraculous conversions from lives of drug addiction and gang life. You may know his book The Cross and the Switchblade.
Wilkerson asked Fr. Randall what he wanted to pray for and Randall replied that “we need what you have!” Wilkerson prayed with him and sent him on his way. Randall said that nothing happened right then, and on the way back home to Providence from Brooklyn, all he was thinking about was that he would get to bed around 4:00 a.m. and had to get up for the 8:00 and 9:00 a.m. Masses, and wondering how he would get through it.
When he stepped out onto the altar, he felt as though he had stepped into the Upper Room, and that Jesus Christ was saying that Mass . . . Randall said there was a “whoosh” and everything changed. In Randall’s words: “It took the Mass to a whole new level, and it has never changed.” A few months later, again, after prayng with a charismatic – this time a Catholic – he picked up his breviary to say the office, and couldn’t get through the Psalms because he was so overwhelmed with the intensity of what he was reading that his tears soaked the page . . .
That’s a gift. Whether it is “for everybody” depends partly on one’s disposition. To chase emotions, even “good” or “spiritual” emotions would probably be an error. But to be open to the gifts is a blessing.
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mercygate
Guest
I do not believe it is a question of being “led.” If these gifts were normative in the Church at one time, then we should not dismiss them as foreign. However, they DID fall into disuse. Nevertheless, “the spirit bloweth where it listeth” and for us to deny that he moves among non-Catholics would be an insult to his Providence.
You are correct that caution and discernment are absolutely essential.
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Belle10
Guest
I think you make a good point here. I suspect that many Catholics fear (irrationally) that because charismatic gifts are often experienced by non-Catholics, that they somehow invalidate the Catholic faith, which I believe is not true at all.
I do not receive charismatic gifts on a regular basis. But I often describe myself as a charismatic Catholic, especially when I am evangelizing, b/c it shows other Christians all that we do have in common in Christ, and often helps them to listen more to me when I try to explain our Catholic faith. For them to know that I’m enthusiastic and on fire for Jesus and show it with joy (my own “definition” of charismatic) it allows them to open themselves up to actually hear what I’m saying, not just tune me out (because unfortunately, especially with the “younger generation” these days, many people are disillusioned as to what the Catholic Church actually is - hence the decrease in vocations, lack of adherence to doctrine, etc.). I am charismatic about my Catholicism.
I have had people tell me they’re surprised to see a Catholic be so happy and excited about God as I am, and that’s a shame that they don’t see it more often. (not patting myself on the back, just making a point, you know?) You can adhere to our wonderful traditions AND be charismatic (if the Holy Spirit chooses to bestow blessings on you), and that’s a great thing for the person who is experiencing those blessings and for those who see that person not just talking about, but living their faith. 
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Belle10
Guest
How beautiful
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Pani_Rose
Guest
AMEN!
If you teach CCD, serve at the Altar, greet someone at the door, and much - much more, you are using the Charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit.
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DiggidyDog
Guest
How about a new question:
Should I attend an upcoming Catholic Charismatic Conference to hear Ralph Martin speak? After reading this entire thread, I’m a little nervous. I just want to go hear a speaker that I’ve heard on Catholic radio recently.
Should I attend an upcoming Catholic Charismatic Conference to hear Ralph Martin speak? After reading this entire thread, I’m a little nervous. I just want to go hear a speaker that I’ve heard on Catholic radio recently.
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holy_roamer
Guest
Truthfully, if you are nervous about what those guys are saying in this internet thread, then you don’t below with us Charismatics. If you really are interested, I would suggest that you step out one night and go to a real Charismatic Church. After you receive the anointing your faith will be strong enough to stand against what ever Satan brings against you… Charsimatics are non-denominational, so you don’t have to worry about what church building you are in.
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juliamajor
Guest
" Us “Charismatics!! Please don’t put all of us together I am a catholic first Charismatic next. My loyalty ,my love and my heart are in the RCC .this charismatics is denominational!!!Truthfully, if you are nervous about what those guys are saying in this internet thread, then you don’t below with us Charismatics. If you really are interested, I would suggest that you step out one night and go to a real Charismatic Church. After you receive the anointing your faith will be strong enough to stand against what ever Satan brings against you… Charsimatics are non-denominational, so you don’t have to worry about what church building you are in.
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and if you are catholic go to a CC Mass where we have the Eucharist- nothing surpasses that. Ralph Martin is a good solid Catholic so"be not afraid” We are not the spawn of satan or want to be protestant. If your afraid it’s not orthodox i’d talk to Father Groeschel about- is he orthodox enough?
Don’t listen to anecdotal stories- it’s something you have to experience yourself. I myself was just as negative as some of these people on this forum- until i went to my first CC Mass- then - i don’t know i was changed transformed so much that my son refers to me as "new mom’ as opposed “bad mom” not that i was really bad
but i did become a better person. God bless
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water
Guest
DiggidyDog,
Let me share with you from my personnal experience and hope it might help you a bit - feel free to PM me if you like to.
Last summer, I participated a Life in Spirit seminar at a local Catholic church. I didn’t know anything about it; I didn’t do any reserach on. However, I went to the seminar because my mom had purchased the admission fee which was a lot for her; therefore, I did not want to upset my mom and went.
I am so glad that I had gone to the seminar. My life has been changing ever since. I had encountered some supernatural experiences. Until this day, I don’t know what exactly I encountered, but by grace of God, I am chaning my life. I have recognized many of my sins and wanted to be a better Catholic.
Even though my life is changing, charismatic or gifts such as praying in tongue and casting out demons are not for me. So, after having the gift of praying in tounge, I asked God to help me with just ordinary gifts that helps me to pray the Rosary and to read Bible more. God has given me the gifts and now I am praying Rosary daily and love to read Bible and go to daily mass. I am not boasting myself, but to acknowledge God’s loving that He has turned a person who was blinded to one who can see things better.
Those ordinary gifts to me are far more important than praying in tongue; this is because, for me, praying in tongue is not the thing I can feel comfortable with. This doesn’t mean that it is not important to others.
God gives each of us different gifts and not all will have the same gift. I ask God to grant me ordinary gifts and I am happy with what He intends for me. I don’t want to force God to give me gifts.
I am not against Charismatic; in fact, tomorrow, I will attend a healing mass. I will not be asking to be healed physically, but ask God to grant me peace in my soul and the things that He knows I need the most.
For you, pray, pray, and pray. Don’t forget to study bible. Do some reseach about Charismatic yourself. If you feel nevervous about going but want to go anyway, then go.
God bless.
Q
quiet52
Guest
I have never experienced a “Life in the Spirit” retreat but know Catholics who have. I’ve witnessed their growth in faith and how they attribute their renewed zeal for their faith and for building up the Church to their being “baptized in the Spirit.” I am happy for them, and am happy that the Church is blessed by their spiritual vigor.
We’re so blessed to have the sacraments and the gift of the Mass to reinforce us in faith and help bring us to heaven. There are various other gifts within the Church which supplement these gifts, such as Eucharistic adoration and other private and public devotions, retreats, opportunities for service, good writers and speakers, and movements and programs, such as Cursillo, Marriage Encounter, and yes, Life in the Spirit.
I think we need to acknowledge and appreciate the good in these gifts (which are all given by the Holy Spirit), which build up the Church.
Belle10 has quoted from the Catechism:
It is understandable that people who feel spiritually and emotionally energized by, and grateful for, a retreat or some other experience, want others to experience the same thing.
Back to the issue of being “charismatic.” I’ve been involved in the Church in a number of ways in my life, and try to remain prayerful and energetic. People who call themselves “charismatic” have approached me several times, assuming that I’ve attended one of their retreats. They’ve been shocked that I never have. One man told me he had assumed that I was able to discern my gifts at a “Life in the Spirit” retreat – and he then went on about how I should definitely attend one for more help, because the Spirit is obviously calling me to something.
It didn’t seem to occur to this man that all the ways I involve myself in the Church are my efforts to respond to God’s call for worship and service, and that it’s God’s Holy Spirit which enable me to do so. I didn’t bother arguing with him. His zeal was just misplaced. I just said “maybe sometime.”
I’d like to encourage more caution by those who proclaim themselves as “charismatics” to be mindful how they present their movement to others. Some (not all of course) come across as rather arrogantly superior in faith and zeal, implying that others need to experience what they’ve experienced, in order to grow as they have. This is an unintended consequence of many movements and programs, I suspect.
We’re so blessed to have the sacraments and the gift of the Mass to reinforce us in faith and help bring us to heaven. There are various other gifts within the Church which supplement these gifts, such as Eucharistic adoration and other private and public devotions, retreats, opportunities for service, good writers and speakers, and movements and programs, such as Cursillo, Marriage Encounter, and yes, Life in the Spirit.
I think we need to acknowledge and appreciate the good in these gifts (which are all given by the Holy Spirit), which build up the Church.
Belle10 has quoted from the Catechism:
That being said, I think it’s important that in each movement, group, program, etc., those involved must regularly and honestly critique themselves, for the sake of efficacy.
It is understandable that people who feel spiritually and emotionally energized by, and grateful for, a retreat or some other experience, want others to experience the same thing.
Back to the issue of being “charismatic.” I’ve been involved in the Church in a number of ways in my life, and try to remain prayerful and energetic. People who call themselves “charismatic” have approached me several times, assuming that I’ve attended one of their retreats. They’ve been shocked that I never have. One man told me he had assumed that I was able to discern my gifts at a “Life in the Spirit” retreat – and he then went on about how I should definitely attend one for more help, because the Spirit is obviously calling me to something.
It didn’t seem to occur to this man that all the ways I involve myself in the Church are my efforts to respond to God’s call for worship and service, and that it’s God’s Holy Spirit which enable me to do so. I didn’t bother arguing with him. His zeal was just misplaced. I just said “maybe sometime.”
I’d like to encourage more caution by those who proclaim themselves as “charismatics” to be mindful how they present their movement to others. Some (not all of course) come across as rather arrogantly superior in faith and zeal, implying that others need to experience what they’ve experienced, in order to grow as they have. This is an unintended consequence of many movements and programs, I suspect.
S
scriabin
Guest
Suspicious charismatic experience #4—
It’s 1994, I’m still a new convert to the Catholic faith—and it’s GREAT!! (it still is), — my mother invites me to a Charismatic healing Mass. I go with a buddy of mine, a cradle Catholic discerning the priesthood.
At one point, we line up to get healed by the priest touching us on the foreheads as we go up to the altar, in communion-line fashion.
There are volunteers catching people as they fall backwards so they don’t get hurt.
Well, when I got up there the priest didn’t even touch my forehead. I was flat on my back with just a forward wave of his hand. Folks, this stuff is REAL.
I was on by back for at least half an hour. While others were getting up, I was still on the floor. I felt “floaty” and made a conscious effort to get up, but it just felt like it wasn’t worth the trouble so I stayed flat on my back on the floor. I would describe it as restful. I can only assume this is what charismatics call a slain-in-the-spirit experience.
Anyhow, afterwards, as we were driving home my buddy, who also had gone up in the healing line behind me was talking about the evening.
“Why didn’t I fall down, too? Am I blocking the Spirit? Am I chosen? Is there just too much sin in my life? I’ve been going to communion all my life, why wasn’t I slain in the Spirit?”
Now I ask you, did this experience build my brother up? Was my being slain-in-the-Spirit working for the common good?
No. To me, it just made my brother feel bad about himself. He felt he wasn’t part of “the Holy Spirit club.”
So I prayed that evening and asked God to just give me Himself. I told Him I didn’t need charismatic graces/consolations if they resulted in division with the rest of the body of Christ. Your gifts are wonderful Lord; but I want you.
The Mass is Him.
It’s 1994, I’m still a new convert to the Catholic faith—and it’s GREAT!! (it still is), — my mother invites me to a Charismatic healing Mass. I go with a buddy of mine, a cradle Catholic discerning the priesthood.
At one point, we line up to get healed by the priest touching us on the foreheads as we go up to the altar, in communion-line fashion.
There are volunteers catching people as they fall backwards so they don’t get hurt.
Well, when I got up there the priest didn’t even touch my forehead. I was flat on my back with just a forward wave of his hand. Folks, this stuff is REAL.
I was on by back for at least half an hour. While others were getting up, I was still on the floor. I felt “floaty” and made a conscious effort to get up, but it just felt like it wasn’t worth the trouble so I stayed flat on my back on the floor. I would describe it as restful. I can only assume this is what charismatics call a slain-in-the-spirit experience.
Anyhow, afterwards, as we were driving home my buddy, who also had gone up in the healing line behind me was talking about the evening.
“Why didn’t I fall down, too? Am I blocking the Spirit? Am I chosen? Is there just too much sin in my life? I’ve been going to communion all my life, why wasn’t I slain in the Spirit?”
Now I ask you, did this experience build my brother up? Was my being slain-in-the-Spirit working for the common good?
No. To me, it just made my brother feel bad about himself. He felt he wasn’t part of “the Holy Spirit club.”
So I prayed that evening and asked God to just give me Himself. I told Him I didn’t need charismatic graces/consolations if they resulted in division with the rest of the body of Christ. Your gifts are wonderful Lord; but I want you.
The Mass is Him.
W
water
Guest
Your praying not to have any division is great, and that is what we all need to pray.
For about falling down or not - one will never fall down, yet he might receive more gifts than those who have fallen down every single times.
Falling down is not an absolute only way to determine if the Holy Spirit acts upon a person.
If somebody use this falling methoc to judge himself or others than he is either very wrong or misunderstood.
At confirmation, have we ever seen people falling down?
- hardly.
- absolutely No!
J
juliamajor
Guest
Yeah- your point being? I’ve never spoken in tongues- so what-Same Spirit- different Gifts.!I’ve never had an ecstatic experience like Teresa of Avila Does that make her or me suspicious? does it make me envious? Heck yeah!But that’s her not me-/ I could sit and bemoan the gifts or charisms that I wasn’t given or I can discover what i was given and go with it. After going to study scripture and graduating I felt I was called to teach. You gotta understand I;m not a person who ever spoke in public!! I almost failed English in school because of public speaking!! So when I discerned that was what i was supposed to do I asked"why me Lord"? I felt like Moses only I didn’t have Aaron to take my place! What CC taught me was" let go -let God". I submitted My will to His . I prep but somethings come out of my mouth that i know is not me- !that is a powerful gift of the Spirit .Maybe it’s not the gift I would have personally chosen but what I was given to be and to do is for the good of the whole Body of Christ. This will be my fifth year God has blessed me beyond my worth.
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juliamajor
Guest
I really don’t want to play"my catholicism is better then yours." As far as “arrogantly superior” there is enough on both sides of the issue. I’ve been told that my faith is" immature" and my CC family told they were “ego centered” and “not catechized properly” . If that isn’t arrogant I don’t know what is. I think some CC want everybody to feel the way they do or experience what they have- or some might be just arrogant
It’s a human failing and not CC only one. God Help us we are all on a journey and all of us are trying to reach a goal. God bless
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passioncrosslov
Guest
Although I am suspicious of charismatics also, but still searching. I agree on this point. I do notice there are many charismatic members who attend daily Mass regularly and there are those just show up for the prayer group. I do believe if it brings people closer to Our Lord and to reverence Him and love Him more than it is a good thing, as long as it is not through feelings alone but also through truth; since I believe the more one knows and understanding of the deeper meaning of the Redemptive Mystery the more one grows to marvel at His deep and infinite love, and one would grow deeper in love with Him.
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TOP
Guest
I live in a small parish. There is no movements or anything like that at my Church. When I first came back to church, I went to my first “donut sunday” sponsered by the Holy Name Society after Mass. I was shocked that nobody was talking about the Lord. There was talk about local crime, gossip here and there, introductions, but nobody even mentioned the Lord. He is what is always on my mind. He is what I want to talk about. Is that the draw of the charasmatics? Tim
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passioncrosslov
Guest
I think the OP meant saints that derived from the Charismatic Movement (capital C). I think we sometimes misunderstood and mingled the term with the movement. These saints were not Charismatic (movement) but they were charismatic, and even without using the term, they were what they were, filled with the Holy Spirit. Bishop Fulton J. Sheen’s Divine Romance identified the Holy Spirit as the Divine Love, the love between the Father and the Son, so strong that it seems so real, a real person. That is why in ICorinthians 13, St. Paul sums up with charity (love of God) as the ultimate gift of the Holy Spirit, because that is what He is, love, any other gift is inferior. So, I would say, aim for that ultimate gift, for it is love that compels Our Lord to descend from his throne to redeem us, humbled himself in a little piece of bread just to remain with us, and it is love for Our Lord that set the fire in our brothers and sisters saints to do all for Him.
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passioncrosslov
Guest
Few things that bother me is that Charismatic Renewal derived from Penticostals. This depicts an idea that (1) the Catholic Church was not charismatic until the bloom of this movement, therefore the church was wrong or could be wrong, and sooner or later Martin Luther would be venerated as a saint; (2) the idea that the Holy Spirit alone is guiding the person - CAUTION → the Church is the guidance since if one’s inspirations contradict the Church it is not acceptable (refer back to private revelations, they must be approved by the Church; even Our Lord Himself instructed St. Faustina, for example, to seek her superior’s consent). Christ instructed his apostles, “Whatever you bound on earth will be bound in heaven… whatever you loose on earth…”. This concept could be an open door for the manipulation of the evil spirits, remember that Lucifer was the angel of light, his knowledge and his ways may be too clever and too subtle for us to notice.
These are just my thoughts. Since I’m not an expert, maybe someone could verify me.
:harp:
These are just my thoughts. Since I’m not an expert, maybe someone could verify me.
:harp:
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