Charasmatic Catholics?

[passioncrosslov]

Suspicious charismatic experience #4—

“Why didn’t I fall down, too? Am I blocking the Spirit? Am I chosen? Is there just too much sin in my life? I’ve been going to communion all my life, why wasn’t I slain in the Spirit?”

Now I ask you, did this experience build my brother up? Was my being slain-in-the-Spirit working for the common good?

No. To me, it just made my brother feel bad about himself. He felt he wasn’t part of “the Holy Spirit club.”

So I prayed that evening and asked God to just give me Himself. I told Him I didn’t need charismatic graces/consolations if they resulted in division with the rest of the body of Christ. Your gifts are wonderful Lord; but I want you.

The Mass is Him.

I like the last sentence. I’ve heard of many stories about “calling upon the spirit of the dead” (don’t know exactly the name), and when persons of strong faith (e.g. a priest and a nun in secular clothing, one example) joined in the ritual just for curiosity, "the spirit would not reveal itself’’ and the leader would ask those persons to leave. OK, it might not have anything to do with the incident, but could be something to think about. Not trying to scare anybody.

Peace in Christ

 

[johnstown_johnn]

I like the last sentence. I’ve heard of many stories about “calling upon the spirit of the dead” (don’t know exactly the name), and when persons of strong faith (e.g. a priest and a nun in secular clothing, one example) joined in the ritual just for curiosity, "the spirit would not reveal itself’’ and the leader would ask those persons to leave. OK, it might not have anything to do with the incident, but could be something to think about. Not trying to scare anybody.

Peace in Christ

That is a troublesome story. Who really knows what portholes are being opened up at some gatherings.

The safest way to God’s Throne in the Trinity is through the Mass, devotions, and the Eucharist. Nothing eclipses that.

When you receive Christ you are one with the Holy Trinity. They are inseparable.

 

[passioncrosslov]

Could an expert clarify for me? What is it about the Charismatic Movement have that the regular/traditional Catholics don’t have, meaning what are its highlight?

 

[mercygate]

" Us “Charismatics!! Please don’t put all of us together I am a catholic first Charismatic next. My loyalty ,my love and my heart are in the RCC .this charismatics is denominational!!! and if you are catholic go to a CC Mass where we have the Eucharist- nothing surpasses that. Ralph Martin is a good solid Catholic so"be not afraid” We are not the spawn of satan or want to be protestant. If your afraid it’s not orthodox i’d talk to Father Groeschel about- is he orthodox enough? Don’t listen to anecdotal stories- it’s something you have to experience yourself. I myself was just as negative as some of these people on this forum- until i went to my first CC Mass- then - i don’t know i was changed transformed so much that my son refers to me as "new mom’ as opposed “bad mom” not that i was really bad but i did become a better person. God bless

Ralph Martin and his sister Terry were influential in bringing Fr. Randall into the charismatic movement. If Randall is any credential for Martin, a person should not be the least bit timid about it.

Fr. Randall received my life vows in the Confraternity of Penitents during a Mass that he celebrated with consummate dignity and recollection. Charismatic does not necessarily mean rolling on the floor in unbridled ecstasy!

 

[johnstown_johnn]

Somehow it almost sounds like “thrillseeking” or even instant gratification. It is not very different from entertainment. So it sounds.

This topic has deep concerns and the Mass is paramount in the Faith. Nothing replaces it for holiness. Heaven touches down at Consecration. Nothing eclipses the personal, actual presence of Jesus.

Charismatic also, from where I sit, looks like a kind of “Competition” between the Holy Spirit and the Father and the Son. THEY ARE ONE and the Mass is our path to Heaven.

The Holy Spirit is NOT neglected as it seems to imply by Charismatic. Charismatic is alien and it resembles Pentecostalism far too closely. This is a danger sign as I see it.

 

[juliamajor]

Few things that bother me is that Charismatic Renewal derived from Penticostals. This depicts an idea that (1) the Catholic Church was not charismatic until the bloom of this movement, therefore the church was wrong or could be wrong, and sooner or later Martin Luther would be venerated as a saint; (2) the idea that the Holy Spirit alone is guiding the person - CAUTION → the Church is the guidance since if one’s inspirations contradict the Church it is not acceptable (refer back to private revelations, they must be approved by the Church; even Our Lord Himself instructed St. Faustina, for example, to seek her superior’s consent). Christ instructed his apostles, “Whatever you bound on earth will be bound in heaven… whatever you loose on earth…”. This concept could be an open door for the manipulation of the evil spirits, remember that Lucifer was the angel of light, his knowledge and his ways may be too clever and too subtle for us to notice.

These are just my thoughts. Since I’m not an expert, maybe someone could verify me.

:harp:

why do you think that the majority of CC are not in union withe the pope or the church ? That’s really not true-I love the suggestion that the pope doesn’t really know about the CC or he;s been fooled-wow-some people really think that Benedict is too old to know what’s really"going on with CC" or he’s been “mislead”. Talk about your binding and loosing- If Benedict is comfortable with us along with arcdioceses(ny Archdiocese is celebrating 40 yrs of the Charismatic movement) then what’s the problem? as far as being open to devils ,Satan and the the rest- any activity is open to that- human beings are corruptible,highly corruptible God Bless from a suspicious CCthumbsup:

 

[juliamajor]

Somehow it almost sounds like “thrillseeking” or even instant gratification. It is not very different from entertainment. So it sounds.

This topic has deep concerns and the Mass is paramount in the Faith. Nothing replaces it for holiness. Heaven touches down at Consecration. Nothing eclipses the personal, actual presence of Jesus.

Charismatic also, from where I sit, looks like a kind of “Competition” between the Holy Spirit and the Father and the Son. THEY ARE ONE and the Mass is our path to Heaven.

The Holy Spirit is NOT neglected as it seems to imply by Charismatic. Charismatic is alien and it resembles Pentecostalism far too closely. This is a danger sign as I see it.

I sorry you have such a low opinion of CC. “Thrillseeking?” yeah Im thrilled by the power of God and His amazing gifts including the sacraments- entertainment? if i wanted entertainment I’d go to the opera- I go to worship .- to worship the Lord. There is no competition -there cannot be amongst the Trinity -when you Honor One you Honor them all-they are one yet separate .Mass is always is the center of worship- we are not ignorant of that fact.At our healing services-after Mass- we expose the Blessed sacrament- the core and apex of our souls because we know that the Blessed Sacrament heals. “charismatic isalien” & a "danger sign"Well a lot of the burgeoning Catholic population in the third world are charismatic. .that’s where many of our religious are coming from. you can be charismatic and experience the Lord in the Eucharist- they are not mutually exclusive. and you know what the charismatics in my church helped get adoration in the Church- we are not as ignorant of doctrine and dogma as you believe .God Bless

 

[holy_roamer]

" Us “Charismatics!! Please don’t put all of us together I am a catholic first Charismatic next. My loyalty ,my love and my heart are in the RCC .this charismatics is denominational!!! and if you are catholic go to a CC Mass where we have the Eucharist- nothing surpasses that. Ralph Martin is a good solid Catholic so"be not afraid” We are not the spawn of satan or want to be protestant. If your afraid it’s not orthodox i’d talk to Father Groeschel about- is he orthodox enough? Don’t listen to anecdotal stories- it’s something you have to experience yourself. I myself was just as negative as some of these people on this forum- until i went to my first CC Mass- then - i don’t know i was changed transformed so much that my son refers to me as "new mom’ as opposed “bad mom” not that i was really bad but i did become a better person. God bless

I have been a Charismatic for years and years, so you can’t fool me. Where is the Jesus in what you wrote to me?

.

 

[water]

Charismatic also, from where I sit, looks like a kind of “Competition” between the Holy Spirit and the Father and the Son. THEY ARE ONE and the Mass is our path to Heaven.

Sorry if I am wrong, but you sounded like you were trying to educate people about God and how to get to Heaven?

Do the people who involves in Charismatic forget about the Holy Catholic Mass?

Do they not know about the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?

I may sense some of your concerns, but you just haven’t presented your concern well.

Trust me, I have heard some CC people with good insights and all, but few other CC do not really know what they were talking about.

…just like many of us - CC or not CC.

 

[juliamajor]

I have been a Charismatic for years and years, so you can’t fool me. Where is the Jesus in what you wrote to me?

.

What’s unchristian about what I wrote you? I just don’t like divisions in the Body of Christ-. It is not “them " or “us” it’s” we." You questioning my integrity -is that Christlike? are we playing “good” Charismatic-"bad " Charismatic? Can Christ be divided? Does He play favorites- ?

 

[passioncrosslov]

why do you think that the majority of CC are not in union withe the pope or the church ? That’s really not true-I love the suggestion that the pope doesn’t really know about the CC or he;s been fooled-wow-some people really think that Benedict is too old to know what’s really"going on with CC" or he’s been "mislead

Did I say that? Presumption…

=“Talk about your binding and loosing- If Benedict is comfortable with us along with arcdioceses(ny Archdiocese is celebrating 40 yrs of the Charismatic movement) then what’s the problem?”

I guess my point is if the Church is OK with it, then be it, but don’t be disappointed or aggressive if down along the road the pope put a red flag on something unauthentic.

=“As far as being open to devils ,Satan and the the rest- any activity is open to that- human beings are corruptible,highly corruptible God Bless from a suspicious CCthumbsup:”

Good point, guess we all have to keep an eye out for ourselves and each other, heh?

 

[juliamajor]

Did I say that? Presumption…

I guess my point is if the Church is OK with it, then be it, but don’t be disappointed or aggressive if down along the road the pope put a red flag on something unauthentic.

Good point, guess we all have to keep an eye out for ourselves and each other, heh?

I’m definitely keeping my eye on you!!!

 

[juliamajor]

Lots of church movements throughout history have been red flagged-even the Jesuits

 

[Belle10]

Well, I was away last evening and this conversation certainly got lively!

I would like to say a few things, the first being that if you haven’t experienced something yourself, sometimes no one else’s descriptions will be quite good enough to actually convey what something is like. With that said, here’s a description of two experiences I’ve had:

~I attended a healing Mass at the National Shrine of Divine Mercy in Stockbridge, Massachusetts. It was a beautiful Mass, and of course the highlight, as it always is, was receiving Holy Communion. After Mass was completed, anyone wishing to receive prayer or a blessing from the priest was invited to come forward. I went forward not for myself but to ask for healing for someone else, and never expected anything to happen. Well, God had other plans (I should know I’m not in charge) and I was slain in the spirit as the priest blessed me with holy oil from Fatima.

~I attended a “charismatic” seminar (years ago) at my hometown Catholic church. I sang and sang and sang songs of praise to God, prayed with others (as we have been told to do), and sang more! I did not experience speaking in tongues (never have), I was not slain in the spirit (that’s only happened to me at healing Masses, and not at every healing Mass I’ve been to), but I did get to praise God with my voice, joining mine with other Catholic voices who too love our Lord Jesus.

My reason for describing these experiences are important: you don’t have to be charismatic to praise God, because we praise Him in our Masses. We are given the miraculous gift of His Holy Presence in the Eucharist, what somone earlier called the summit of our lives (or something like that). I think the term “charismatic” turns some people off, because it makes them think of non-Catholic denominations. But as someone else mentioned (sorry, it’s hard to keep track with so many posts ) the Holy Spirit changes the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of our Savior, so it’s not like the Holy Spirit isn’t part of our Mass. I mean, it’s part of the Trinity!

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that attending Mass is what I long for each week, so I can unite with our Lord in the Eucharist. Do I enjoy Mass? Yes, very much! Do I enjoy attending charismatic seminars sometimes and singing my heart out in praise and thanksgiving to God? Yes, very much! Just because you enjoy charismatic events does not mean that you don’t want or need Mass. Mass is first, then everything else. But just because someone wants to do something else besides Mass to further express their praise to God doesn’t mean they’re any less Catholic, doesn’t mean they’re any less God’s child.

I hope this made sense, and God bless.

 

[holy_roamer]

What’s unchristian about what I wrote you? I just don’t like divisions in the Body of Christ-. It is not “them " or “us” it’s” we." You questioning my integrity -is that Christlike? are we playing “good” Charismatic-"bad " Charismatic? Can Christ be divided? Does He play favorites- ?

Charsimatics are non-denominational. Period!

.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

In the End days there will be bountiful amounts of “false miracles.”

Jesus has been the “healer” of mankind both physically and spiritually. The Blessed Mother, through her Son, has shrines over the world that effect healings.

The Charismatic movement is something to stay far, far away from…it has infiltrated the Church and this Forum is a microcosm of the volume. People, don’t get caught up in this sensationalism, go to Jesus in the Eucharist. He established the Mass at the Last Supper for all the ages. Charismatic was not in the plan. Were it so, we would be doing this for 2,000 years not 40.
Focus only on what Jesus gave us to come to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and that is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[water]

In the End days there will be bountiful amounts of “false miracles.”

Jesus has been the “healer” of mankind both physically and spiritually. The Blessed Mother, through her Son, has shrines over the world that effect healings.

Tell me you have never seen a physician in your entire life, John.

 

[Belle10]

In the End days there will be bountiful amounts of “false miracles.”

Jesus has been the “healer” of mankind both physically and spiritually. The Blessed Mother, through her Son, has shrines over the world that effect healings.

The Charismatic movement is something to stay far, far away from…it has infiltrated the Church and this Forum is a microcosm of the volume. People, don’t get caught up in this sensationalism, go to Jesus in the Eucharist. He established the Mass at the Last Supper for all the ages. Charismatic was not in the plan. Were it so, we would be doing this for 2,000 years not 40.
Focus only on what Jesus gave us to come to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and that is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

If you’re bent on attacking and being negative, I guess there’s nothing much anyone can say. I would urge anyone interested in what Pope John Paul II had to say on this issue to read these:

catholicfraternity.net/images/letteraA.htm
catholicfraternity.net/images/letteraB.htm
catholicfraternity.net/images/RelazioneFiuggi%2003.pdf

(I found all of the above articles at catholicfraternity.net/historical.html which is a group I didn’t even know existed! I love google…)

The most interesting thing here is that because of the negativity expressed here, I’ve learned more about this than I ever knew before, and have found numerous examples (in the CCC and in things such as the above letters) that explain the good that being charismatic Catholics can help achieve. Through the Holy Spirit, people are being led to the Catholic Church, to Jesus Himself in the Holy Eucharist, and I think that’s wonderful. And, if Pope John Paul II was OK with it, well then, so am I.

God bless.

 

[juliamajor]

In the End days there will be bountiful amounts of “false miracles.”

Jesus has been the “healer” of mankind both physically and spiritually. The Blessed Mother, through her Son, has shrines over the world that effect healings.

The Charismatic movement is something to stay far, far away from…it has infiltrated the Church and this Forum is a microcosm of the volume. People, don’t get caught up in this sensationalism, go to Jesus in the Eucharist. He established the Mass at the Last Supper for all the ages. Charismatic was not in the plan. Were it so, we would be doing this for 2,000 years not 40.
Focus only on what Jesus gave us to come to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and that is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

“End Days” ? How protestant of you! - Infiltrated the Church! Just snuck in there- gee the Pope and Vatican must be a bunch of simpletons… Do you know my soul? Do you know the souls of those on this board? A whole squad of us have been telling of our inner devotions ,our spiritual life. The Eucharist and all the sacraments. but apparently you want to focus on the negative.- or that doesn’t fit in with what you believe is the proper form so we must be evil!! A lot of us bared our souls told you of our lives and the impact CC has had on us. Before I became Charismatic I would be in church after communion thinking about what a great and powerful Gift was given to us- that Our church has a gift that surpasses others. It made me so joyful that i wanted to sing and dance!-I didn’t- but that is how I see the CC giving vent to the joy I feel inside !. I want to praise Him with my whole being not just my mind or spirit but in totality-every fiber of me. some folks don’t feel that way-that’s just fine .As apriest told me"the arms of Holy Mother Church are wide" for many forms of spirituality. So you don’t get it- so i don’t get scourging as a discipline or other other forms of spirituality-but it doesn’t mean I want to or should sanction them. Be at peace!

 

[johnstown_johnn]

Allow me one question to ALL Charismatics here on this thread:

I reject the Charismatic movement and I cling to the practices of the Church that has been for 2,000 years. I accept only the traditional pursuits of God. No need to spell it out here; we’ve been over it in this thread.

Tell me: Since I do not accept the Charismatic movement; and do not believe in its claims…DO I FORFEIT MY SALVATION ?