Charismatic Catholics?

[spm010]

There is a small church in a very beautiful, rural setting nearby,run by a Charismatic Catholic group. I’m sure they are somewhat different than, say, Augustinians or Jesuits, and I hesitate to visit because I have visions of snake handling or speaking in tounges during Mass. Are the Charismatics a legitamate branch of Catholicism?

 

[PeacefulWaters]

spm010:

There is a small church in a very beautiful, rural setting nearby,run by a Charismatic Catholic group. I’m sure they are somewhat different than, say, Augustinians or Jesuits, and I hesitate to visit because I have visions of snake handling or speaking in tounges during Mass. Are the Charismatics a legitamate branch of Catholicism?

Yes, Charismatic Catholics are recognized as a Catholic Church and have the approval of the Pope. I belong to a Charismatic Church and we don’t handle snakes, poisonious or non…(personally I won’t go within 15 feet of a snake), however at prayer meetings there is speaking in tongues. I encourage you to attend, I think you’d enjoy it.

 

[JimmyJoe]

Yes, Charismatic Catholics are recognized as a Catholic Church and have the approval of the Pope.

I believe the Charasmatic Catholics are recognized rather as a movement within the Catholic Church. I belong to a Charasmatic Catholic prayer group, but we don’t have our own church.
Spmo10, If your’e looking for a place to let it all hang out(spiritually I mean), then you should check it out.

God Bless,
Jim

 

[DominvsVobiscvm]

I think there are some good aspects of the Charismatic Movement, but the overall effect of the movement on the Church has been negative, as anyone who’s observed it objectively can tell.

Its almost a given that any “charismatic” parish will be ripe with liturgical abuses. Likewise, the vast majority of Catholic charismatic have a distorted understanding of “baptism in the Holy Spirit.” They believe that this phrase, used by Jesus, refers to a post-baptismal emotional experience. The Church has never seen it this way. “Baptism in the Holy Spirit” is nothing more than Christian baptism.

Just some warnings. I speak as one formerly a part of this movement. I eve went through the “Life in the Spirit” seminars and was exposed to much errant theology, of which I’m still purging myself . . .

 

[spm010]

I checked for a web site for the Charismatic Church that is in the area- they have two priests who hold full time day jobs, and , here’s the kicker, they are both married. It dosen’t sound right to me, somehow…

 

[DominvsVobiscvm]

Can you post the site?

 

[beng]

spm010:

There is a small church in a very beautiful, rural setting nearby,run by a Charismatic Catholic group. I’m sure they are somewhat different than, say, Augustinians or Jesuits, and I hesitate to visit because I have visions of snake handling or speaking in tounges during Mass. Are the Charismatics a legitamate branch of Catholicism?

Carefull with tongue speaking since most of tongues now are fake.

I’d love for some of them to interpret their tongue to prove it’s authenticity. IMO their just doing jubilation chanting

Here’s from New advent on The Gift of Tongue
Here’s Patrick Madrid on Tongue (and other stuff)

 

[beng]

spm010:

I checked for a web site for the Charismatic Church that is in the area- they have two priests who hold full time day jobs, and , here’s the kicker, they are both married. It dosen’t sound right to me, somehow…

Eastern rite priest could Mary. Also convert priest (from Anglican for example) can be given dispensation to be rpiest while still maried.

Get the info first.

 

[twf]

If they are both married…they could be Anglican priest-converts or Eastern Rite…but since you mentioned that they have day-time jobs it could very well be an “independent catholic” church. There are a group of denominations that consider themselves ‘independent catholics’ and often employ clergy with secular day-time jobs (because these churches are often so small). If they are independent catholics of the sort I am thinking, they may only accept the first 7, or even the first 3 or 4 ecumenical councils.

Of course it may be nothing of the sort…

 

[agname]

spm010:

There is a small church in a very beautiful, rural setting nearby,run by a Charismatic Catholic group. I’m sure they are somewhat different than, say, Augustinians or Jesuits, and I hesitate to visit because I have visions of snake handling or speaking in tounges during Mass. Are the Charismatics a legitamate branch of Catholicism?

Spm…it’s been given the okay for the time being…but, I see within the not so distant future…a crackdown on the charistmatic movement…honestly…it’s just the heresy of Montanism all over again.

Some will say the movement originated from Apostolic times…that’s a stretch. Granted, the Bible and the early Christians noted a gift of the Holy Spirit…known as “speaking in tongues.”

I would say the Charismatic Movement…or, as I call it – Neo-Montanism…was founded centuries and centuries later.

I do know that Paul preached…

"Tongues-speaking is only edifying in the Church if it is interpreted. “But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the Church.” First Corinthians 14:5, 27, 28

History shows that glossolalia (tongue speaking itself) did occur within the early Church…and I also do know the early fathers were incredibly divided. Chrysostom disapproved and Augustine was mixed…Ignatius believed in speaking in tongues, but believed also in its limited usage. The Montanist movement (which holds similarities with the Charismatic Movement) included prophetesses, speaking in tongues, etc… was declared heretical by 99% of the church (even though, Tertullian loved the movement)…it got so bad that excommunication became involved (Serapion, bishop of Antioch spoke out against it greatly). The Canon of Moratori (the oldest list of authorized New Testament books…written in Rome circa 170 AD) mentions Montanism among heresies and rejects its teachings and writings. Speaking in tongues was extremely rare within the church after this time.

The fact is…just as cancer has signs…so does this movement.

 

[spm010]

Here is the web site-http://www.bethanyccc.org/index.html- It looks like a nice church. I emailed for information and was told about the married priests. The Father who answered me suggested that if their practices were a bit too radical for me, I might find some wisdom in the writings of the Desert Fathers. I have always been one to go against the prevailing current, but this makes me uncomfortable. Thanks everyone!

Steve

 

[White_Knight]

I’ve been going to a Charismatic Mass a lot lately. I still can’t decide if I like it or not…but I think it’s a great way to invite Protestants who don’t feel that Catholic Mass is “alive” the way their church is when they sing (even though we all know that the best song in the world doesn’t even compare to the Eucharist).

 

[beng]

White Knight:

I’ve been going to a Charismatic Mass a lot lately. I still can’t decide if I like it or not…but I think it’s a great way to invite Protestants who don’t feel that Catholic Mass is “alive” the way their church is when they sing (even though we all know that the best song in the world doesn’t even compare to the Eucharist).

You should realize how some Protestant think the other way around. If the Mass is the same as their… uh …er… “worship service”… then why would they convert?

Many of our converts join the church because they realize what Mass is. The perpetuation of Christ Passion. As if we’re connected in a way to the 2000 years old Passion and we are there standing at the Cross. There’s also the Eucharist, which is the ultimate point of Mass.

Honestly, I don’t want the Catholic Church to turn into The Church of Holy Endorphin where we go to the church for the “kick.” To “feel” good. To be “stimulated emotionally.”

 

[Lorarose]

I think there are some good aspects of the Charismatic Movement, but the overall effect of the movement on the Church has been negative, as anyone who’s observed it objectively can tell.

I have to agree with this observation based on my own experience.
I say this with mixed feelings as I know so many people came to these charismatic masses with great joy and love for Jesus.
There was indeed an emotional/spiritual uplift for most who came.

And yet…liturgical abuse was rampant.
Bad theology was massive in regards to baptism of the Holy Spirit, and gifts of the Spirit.
They were actually making altar calls at a catholic mass!!
Personal testimonies were being given on the altar within the mass.

Many who came were not catholic -and “evangilized” to the catholics about their mary worshipping, statue worshipping (blah blah)

By the time it was over…a great number of catholics left the church in search of a “non-denominational” church that allowed the “Spirit to move.”

And there Jesus sits on the altar, mass after mass - the true miracle. It’s right there - and yet so many flee from Him in search of some intense spiritual experience.

Sigh.

 

[James_2_24]

I think a real dangers in the Charismatic movement are:

1. It pits the lay people against the Clergy, indirectly.

I have seen this in my own parish. The anointing of the sick is downplayed greatly. And the laying on of hands by Charismatics is hyped up. To the point where appointments are made to the healing ministry and sick people are coming daily to get hands laid on them by the ‘healing team’.

Blessed oil is used, which is put on the sick person and they are prayed over. Tongues often being spoken over them.

2. Church Authority seems to be downplayed (indirectly).

I think there is a real danger that Charismatics get caught up with speaking in tongues, the spirit “taking over”, healing powers, etc. That the Eucharist, Adoration, etc start to take a backseat even though they won’t admit to this. I believe it is easier for them to get sucked out of the Church or take part in non-Catholic services or functions because Charismatics themselves form ties with any and all who are supposedly “baptized in the Spirit” including those outside the visible boundaries of the Church. So that all those who are “baptized in the Spirit” or are “Charismatic” (Catholic or Not) are sort of the elite group and they are sort of seen as the “real” Christians.

I have heard some Charismatics say things like: “JPII is just JPII, it’s all about Jesus… in the end believing in what the Pope says or does or believing he is the head of the Church does not affect my salvation.”

Or:

“My faith in God has nothing to do with the Catholic Church, it’s about me and Jesus”

Disclaimer:
All of the above is just my own personal experience, i’m not infallible and could be dead wrong. Just calling it how I feel I have seen it to be.

 

[Peg]

One of the things I enjoy about the Catholic Church is the variety. In one day I can (because I live in a big city) attend a Latin Mass, a Novus Ordo Mass and a Charismatic Healing Mass. They all feed me.

JPII supports the Charismatic movement. Sure abuses can occur but they also exist with radical traditionalists who are sure that they know better than the Pope.

I do appreciate the warnings posted here, but I also have my own experiences. A friend of mine attending her first Charismatic Mass was prayed over after the Mass. She was “slain in the Spirit”. She had no idea what it was about.

Speaking in tongues is the least of the gifts and my life would be complete without it but, I am greedy and accept any gift that God wants to give me.

 

[agname]

James_2:24:

I think a real dangers in the Charismatic movement are:

1. It pits the lay people against the Clergy, indirectly.

I have seen this in my own parish. The anointing of the sick is downplayed greatly. And the laying on of hands by Charismatics is hyped up. To the point where appointments are made to the healing ministry and sick people are coming daily to get hands laid on them by the ‘healing team’.

Blessed oil is used, which is put on the sick person and they are prayed over. Tongues often being spoken over them.

2. Church Authority seems to be downplayed (indirectly).

I think there is a real danger that Charismatics get caught up with speaking in tongues, the spirit “taking over”, healing powers, etc. That the Eucharist, Adoration, etc start to take a backseat even though they won’t admit to this. I believe it is easier for them to get sucked out of the Church or take part in non-Catholic services or functions because Charismatics themselves form ties with any and all who are supposedly “baptized in the Spirit” including those outside the visible boundaries of the Church. So that all those who are “baptized in the Spirit” or are “Charismatic” (Catholic or Not) are sort of the elite group and they are sort of seen as the “real” Christians.

I have heard some Charismatics say things like: “JPII is just JPII, it’s all about Jesus… in the end believing in what the Pope says or does or believing he is the head of the Church does not affect my salvation.”

Or:

“My faith in God has nothing to do with the Catholic Church, it’s about me and Jesus”

Disclaimer:
All of the above is just my own personal experience, i’m not infallible and could be dead wrong. Just calling it how I feel I have seen it to be.

I see numerous abuses as well…for instance, at one church…during the consecration…a priest called up the laity to surround the altar…and extend their hands…to call upon Christ. The mentality is growing…that they can consecrate as well.

There is no doubt this movement is a cancer. The only real reason it’s being allowed is to attract Protestants. Even the early Church was hesitant about stomping out Montanism…but it eventually saw the clear and evident dangers.

 

[spm010]

In my email to the Charismatic church, I asked about the sacraments and the Father told me they are all practiced although Confession is usually done as a group ceremony of some sort, with private counselling available, if desired. I think I prefer to make my confessions privately, and I don’t believe I need a group therapy session, but then, who knows? Haha. Anyway, this is a great forum and I thank God I’ve found it.

Steve

 

[beng]

Peg:

One of the things I enjoy about the Catholic Church is the variety. In one day I can (because I live in a big city) attend a Latin Mass, a Novus Ordo Mass and a Charismatic Healing Mass. They all feed me.

JPII supports the Charismatic movement. Sure abuses can occur but they also exist with radical traditionalists who are sure that they know better than the Pope.

JP2 only accepted those charismatic people as he would accpet anyone like Moslem, Budhist etc. He didn’t give blanket endorsement per se.

And on that event Patrick Madrid commented:

At the end of the conference, there was a Papal Mass in St. Peter’s, when the Holy Father preached to the assembly of priests involved in the Charismatic renewal. Hardly by chance, he spoke of St. John of the Cross’ “Dark Night of the Soul,” of the senses and of faith, not of emotional release or of special charisms. Although his hearers prayed and sang with various utterances after Holy Communion, he simply watched and listened with fatherly attention. His was the example and authoritative “word of knowledge and of wisdom.”

I will not say that Charismatic is bad per se. But it’s very prone to abuse. And really… it’s unnecessary.

I do appreciate the warnings posted here, but I also have my own experiences. A friend of mine attending her first Charismatic Mass was prayed over after the Mass. She was “slain in the Spirit”. She had no idea what it was about.

“slain in the spirit”? Strange… sounds like a sugar coated term by Pentacostal Protestant preacher… never heard of it.

Speaking in tongues is the least of the gifts and my life would be complete without it but, I am greedy and accept any gift that God wants to give me.

Check your tongue.

If you have two friends who claim to be able to speak tongue, see if they could understand your tongue. Fellow tongue speaker should be able to interpret what they’re saying. If not, then what you’re doing is just chanting jubilantly.

Careful to not violating Mat 6:7
Matthew 6:7
And in praying do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard for their many words.

 

[DominvsVobiscvm]

SPM:

The parish in question is not affiliated with the Catholic Church. Its a schismatic denomination known as the “Charismatic Catholic Church.” For more information on their history, go here.

They have their own bishop, not approved by the Pope. He was himself consecrated by a schismatic “Old Catholic” bishop.

Stay away; far, far away.