Charismatic Catholics?

[James_2_24]

Makerteacher:

We are not ascetics

Can you please clarify what you mean by this? If you mean what I think you mean… uhhh

Thanks

 

[Fr.Frank]

I have been involved in the Charismatic Movement of the Church since 1976, and have been a priest since 1984. I have seen good - I have seen bad - I have seen sloppy - I have seen reverent.

My reason for responding is to invite care: I remember a seminary professor I had suggest to us that the “unforgivable sin” against the Holy Spirit is denying a work of the Holy Spirit is actually coming from Him.

If we dismiss something that is bringing some people deeper/closer to the Lord because it is confusing - and I think those who choose to leave the Church because the Mass is not “enough” for them are confused - to some, we run the risk of denying the work of the Holy Spirit. Remember: the enemy of our souls is always trying to confuse, not clarify. I have seen MUCH clarification and faithfulness (even as I have seen confusion and unfaithfulness).

We can discuss the benefits AND shortfalls - there are both. But we need to hold on to the truth that God is not a God of confusion. Hold on to the Truth of the Church and Her teachings. Listen carefully and discerningly. Isn’t this what the Church is calling us all to?

Grow in holiness - where ever it is found. There are excellent resources for our growth in holiness. The Lord in his majesty has given us many places to find them and Him.

Should you seek Franciscan, Dominican, Ignatian, Benedictine, Carmelite, … (dare I say charismatic?) spirituality? Let the Holy Spirit guide you. He knows what you need.

May God bless you all in your pursuit of He who is the True Bridegroom of our souls.

 

[gomer_tree]

I do not belong to the Charismatic movement.

I’ve never been to one of their Masses.

I do note, however, that if the idea that if there is Liturgical abuse in some areas makes it a movement to stay away from, then what does such a statement say about a typical Novus Ordo Mass?

I think it’s important to stay away from blanket statements. We have Liturgical abuse and questionable practice nearly everywhere to one extent or another. I believe we can have a valid Mass of all sorts of different forms. The abuses need to be directed, but I don’t know if it’s fair to attribute abuse to certain movements in the Church. The nature of the abuses may be different, but all abuses need to be equally addressed.

Question: does a Church declare itself to be Charismatic? Or does it just sort of happen? I’m just a little unclear as to what the movement all entails. Is it “official” or do people just label certain places as charismatic?

 

[Makerteacher]

James_2:24:

Can you please clarify what you mean by this? If you mean what I think you mean… uhhh

Thanks

No problemo!

In this context, ascetic means austere, severe, rigorous, hermitlike. Charismatics as a rule are the exact opposite of this, though many do live a humble lifestlye (without much opulence). We tend to be exhuberent, social, and very accepting. We are not hermit-like and often are best found in the middle of cities, doing what we can to spread the Word.

One poster has repeatedly compared the Charismatic movement to the heresy of Montanism, which was indeed ascetic in nature and claimed secret and “divine” knowledge that --in their minds-- was more authoritative that the voice of the Magisterium. I was only pointing out that we do not have those qualities, as a movement, though I do not for one moment doubt that you could find a single Charismatic somewhere out there who DOES.

Hope that helps.

 

[beng]

ginny:

Many of you keep talking about tongues and having someone interpret. That is one kind but mostly what you hear is a prayer language. The Holy Spirit helps us when we don’t know how to pray and neither kind of tongues is heard at Mass - unless it is specifically a Charismatic Mass. Doesn’t Paul say that he wished everyone would have tongues? All of the people I know who are Charismatic are also very orthodox.

If you pray silently by yourselves, that would be no problem.

However some of these people flaunt tongue in front of believers without interpretation. This must be stopped because it goes against the Bible.

 

[beng]

Fortiterinre:

My motto is, Unambiguously Faithful Without Distraction. If the Charismatic Renewal nourishes YOU in OUR shared faith without becoming a distaction, glory to God! When something takes OUR shared faith and makes it only YOURS, it is a distraction. We each have different interests and attractions within the Church–some are drawn to Latin in the Mass, some to Marian devotions, some to the Charismatic Renewal. Many of these movements are good, but none are “required.”

Wrong.

Something that goes against the Bible can not be counted as a mere “different interest”

Not only do they not required, but this erroneous practice needs to be eradicated because the possibility of endangering souls.

 

[beng]

Fr. Frank:

I have been involved in the Charismatic Movement of the Church since 1976, and have been a priest since 1984. I have seen good - I have seen bad - I have seen sloppy - I have seen reverent.

My reason for responding is to invite care: I remember a seminary professor I had suggest to us that the “unforgivable sin” against the Holy Spirit is denying a work of the Holy Spirit is actually coming from Him.

If we dismiss something that is bringing some people deeper/closer to the Lord because it is confusing - and I think those who choose to leave the Church because the Mass is not “enough” for them are confused - to some, we run the risk of denying the work of the Holy Spirit. Remember: the enemy of our souls is always trying to confuse, not clarify. I have seen MUCH clarification and faithfulness (even as I have seen confusion and unfaithfulness).

Fr, you are incorrect.

The sin of blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is none other than Final Impenitence. Both St Augustine and JP2 confirmed this.

I shall find the relevant quote if I have time and if someone ask me too (you can actually look for it yourself using google).

We can discuss the benefits AND shortfalls - there are both. But we need to hold on to the truth that God is not a God of confusion. Hold on to the Truth of the Church and Her teachings. Listen carefully and discerningly. Isn’t this what the Church is calling us all to?

Yes, but the Church hasn’t dogmatically define that Charismatic is right and proper.

The hierarchy of the Church could and have endorse errors (Nestorius, Pope Honorius etc)

Grow in holiness - where ever it is found. There are excellent resources for our growth in holiness. The Lord in his majesty has given us many places to find them and Him.

Should you seek Franciscan, Dominican, Ignatian, Benedictine, Carmelite, … (dare I say charismatic?) spirituality? Let the Holy Spirit guide you. He knows what you need.

May God bless you all in your pursuit of He who is the True Bridegroom of our souls.

The Holy Spirit WILL NEVER contradict Itself right?

If the Bible is inspired by that same spirit than It would not contradict Itself in the Bible.

As I always said, 99% of tongues are fake because they flaunt it in front of believers without interpretation. This is inviolation of 1Cor 14:27-28.

So, those who did this and somehow “feel” the “holy spirit” are probably have been fooled by their fallible and unreliable “feeling”.

remember Feeling =/= faith.

 

[Les_Richardson]

NateHarburg:

Check out:
davenevins.com/loveofgod/top…matic-gifts.htm
presentationministries.com/brochures/Tongues.asp

The gift of tongues is available to all! I personally have found the gift VERY beneficial in building my relationship with God. I highly recommend you read the above links!

That, right there, is the thin edge of the wedge. As St. Paul describes the diversity of gifts and those who receive them, this is a mis-statement at best, and the beginnings of a theological error that when reversed in context leads to an abuse I have seen which I call “charismatic elitism.”

In a very general oblique sense, the gift of tongues is available to all simply in the fact that we do not know the mind of the Holy Spirit. But the language itself tells us that. A gift is just that. If we go seeking it specifically, it may or may not be given, but if it is not, are we then to say that we have missed out? Or are not worthy? Or haven’t done something that is necessary to receive the gift, in which case it is no longer a “gift?”

Good solid catechesis, intensive, not drive-by catechesis, is what is needed. When the theology is firmly in place first, then prayer becomes well directed, and we become God-oriented for His own sake because we love Him so much, and not experience oriented. Any gifts that God chooses to give us are then a bonus that we will usually find serve some particular purpose at the time.

I know and appreciate that this kind of statement comes from a generosity of spirit, and I take it in that spirit.
I just worry about those who have little grounding, and pray for God to raise up orthodox catechists, as the Holy Spirit is moving in the hearts and minds of many, to convict of sin, and reclaim for God.

Pray friends, because the Holy Spirit never acts against Himself.