charismatic gifts

[Doug50]

Emotions are human. It is also human to equate feelings with spirituality so many seek out the emotions. It’s easier. I think that’s why so many of today’s Catholic retreats are focused upon sharing in feelings. There’s nothing wrong with this so long as you know that the emotional focus is horizonal. It’s social bonding. I have friends going to retreats which have a secretive aspect. I’ve asked them what they got out their retreat. “I can’t tell you cuz it’ll spoil the process should you go.” Not one has ever told me how their weekend deepened/expanded their knowing. What enlightenment could they express? All I get from them is how “wonderful” the retreat was. I’ve heard of people getting addicted to these emotion weekends.Some came back from an Amway convention with the same high. Since our faith is not a secrete but one shared, I assume this process is borrowed from social psy. I’ve gone to such retreats, and due to the social pressure/manipultion I nolonger go. I will go to one that has a virtical focus. If I deepened my knowing shouldn’t I want to share this faith? All this emphasis form today’s Catholics equating emotionalism with spiritualism saddens me.

 

[Doug50]

The following bares repeating but I wish to inject my comments:
Archbishop Martinez–
Rely On Faith, Not On Feelings
It is not my intention at this time to speak of the importance that the spirit of faith has in the spiritual life, or of the necessity of judging everything with a supernatural rule, or of performing all our works with aims and intentions of the same order. This is what I wish to insist upon and to call attention to in an empathic manner;** the chief reason we disregard faith is our preconceived idea that we must feel God and divine things**. Although we know speculatively that God is not felt, practically we hold the contrary.
Do we feel a sacrament producing its proper effect? Do we feel the increase of grace in our soul? Do we feel the death of the soul by sin and its resurrection by sacramental absolution? Do we feel the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist in such a way that if we did not perceive Him sensibly, we would not believe in it?
Without doubt there are times when our Lord allows Himself to be sensibly felt, yet it is not precisely grace that is felt, but often something else that accompanies it. [it’s something secondary] We go to Confession to a priest who simply listens to our sins, gives penance, and absolves; and we feel nothing. We go to another who understands us, who helps us in our disclosures to him, who gives us helpful advice; and we feel such a peace and refreshment that upon arising, we seem to be other beings. [so many people believe this second profitable experiencs was something spiritual] Was it the grace of the sacrament that we felt? No. It was the profitable experience that we had with the second priest.
**To be conscious of a thing and to feel it sensibly are not the same thing; ** [as I’ve been saying is what I believe] neither is one’s whole spiritual life a thing of continual conscious awareness. If we read the life of St. Therese of the Child Jesus with attention, we shall be convinced that she experienced delight only a very few times in her spiritual life, and that she rarely enjoyed sensible consolation with God. She lived by faith, by the obscurity of faith, and she is one of the most marvelous examples of that life of faith.
How many of us, on the other hand, when we go to prayer and experience consolation, come forth content with the assurance that God loves us a great deal? But if we do not feel Him, we come forth brokenhearted, sadly thinking that He has no regard for us, or that we have none of Him. And simply because we do not feel Him! [so many of us convience ourself that such religious practices are dead or borring]
The first secret in finding our Loud is faith. He does not hide Himself from the gaze of faith, nor can He elude it. Faith never has obstacles; it pierces all veils. If only we would understand the secret of living by faith, of going to God by the way of obscure faith!
We approach the tabernacle, and we feel nothing, just as though we were drawing near an empty tabernacle. We say, “Jesus is here,” but it is as though we were pronouncing words in an unknown language, for they move not a single fiber of our heart. But faith assures us that God is there, and if we would comport ourselves in harmony with what faith tells us, how different our prayer would be! We speak to Jesus, but we do not feel that He is listening to us, or that He is answering us. But faith tells us that Jesus listens to us and that He speaks to us, and that He needs neither external sounds nor extraordinary means in order to speak with us. He is the divine Master, who speaks and instructs without the noise of words. [and so I’m skeptical of the need to “feel the power of the Holy Spirit” as somehow equating emotions with spirituality] And if faith assures me that Jesus hears me, speaks to me, and loves me, then delights and consolations are not necessary – no, not anything at all.
The obscurity of faith, to be sure, does not accommodate itself to our sensible tastes. [some times faith is down right lonely, hellish and barren…a dark night for the soul] We would desire, above all else, to feel; and faith is not for feeling and savoring, but for knowing.
**“I do not find God,” you may say. You do not find Him according to your way – that is, in a sensible manner. **But do you believe? If you have faith, you already know that God does not stand far from you, because in Him we live and move and are; because He surrounds us on the right hand and on the left, above and below; because He penetrates us and lives by grace in the most intimate part of our soul; because He is present in that flower, in that fragrance, in that ray of light in that glorious sky, everywhere. Consequently, if we know how to profit from faith and to live by faith, we would always find God, and thus we would have solved our problem; we would have discovered the great secret of the interior life. end quote

 

[Doug50]

The 3 priests whose life in the Spirit touched me are Fr. Luke Zimmer, SSCC, Fr. John Bertolucci, and Fr. John Hampsch, CMF.

These priest spoke of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and shared about gifts of the Holy Spirit they were given. They were on fire for Jesus Christ and for the spreading of His Kingdom here on earth.

Fr. Luke was an evangelist. He spoke of agape love and stressed that this is what all people need to have in their hearts. Fr. Hampsch was a speaker. Interestingly enough, although he stuttered very badly, during his preaching about Jesus Christ he was able to speak clearly for all to hear and understand. He’s very knowledgeable about scripture and Roman Catholic Church theology.

Fr. John Bertolucci wrote a wonderful book, On Fire with the Spirit. He explains how he was baptized in the Holy Spirit.

A priest prayed over him: “Lord, let him be at peace. Let him relax and let go. because you want to do a marvelous thing in his life.” The more he prayed the more I relaxed, and the more I relaxed the more the Holy Spirit rushed in. Something marvelous certainly was happening to me.

Then the priest began praying in a language I thought was Hebrew. I assumed that he had learned that sacred language in the seminary. As I listened to him, an urge to pray out loud came over me. I opened my mouth and, to my complete surprise, began speaking in a new language, one I had never studied. Like Peter and Paul and other Christians throughout the centuries, I had received the gift of tongues! [p. 12]

I do believe that tongues is a gift given by the Holy Spirit. It is a mysterious gift we all wonder about. Some of us believe in it, others doubt it.

and Saint John of the Cross believed that such things should not be desired and that there was a need not to desire such stuff.

 

[po18guy]

22Tongues, then, are a sign, **not for believers **but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. 23So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand[g] or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

What are these prophecies?

I have to fall back onto a Church Doctor, Saint John of the Cross

“6. And if it is true that, for the reasons already described, it behoves the soul to close its eyes to the aforementioned revelations which come to it, and which concern the propositions of the faith, how much more necessary will it be neither to receive nor to give credit to other revelations relating to different things, wherein the devil habitually meddles so freely that I believe it impossible for a man not to be deceived in many of them unless he strive to reject them, such an appearance of truth and security
does the devil give them? For he brings together so many appearances and probabilities, in order that they may be believed, and plants them so firmly in the sense and the imagination, that it seems to the person affected that what he says will certainly happen; and in such a way does he cause the soul to grasp and hold them, that, if it have not humility, it will hardly be persuaded to reject them and made to believe the contrary. Wherefore, the
soul that is pure, cautious, simple and humble must resist revelations and other visions with as much effort and care as though they were very perilous temptations. For there is no need to desire them; on the contrary, there is need not too desire them, if we are to reach the union of love. It is this that Solomon meant when he said:˜What need has a man to desire and seek things that are above his natural capacity? [455] As though we were to say: He has no necessity, in order to be perfect, to desire supernatural things by supernatural means, which are above his capacity.”

The prophetic gift that I received has nothing to do with visions. Such occurrences are generally private revelation, intended only for the benefit of the receiver. I have the gift of strengthening by encouragement, of edification of those around me, of restoring hope to the hopeless. However, any faithful Christian can look at world events and see that big things are happening. I do not care to know the future, for it is frightening and tests the faith. I care only to allow the Lord to use me to guide lost souls back to Him. I will be delighted to be one of His ushers.

Christ’s peace.

 

[po18guy]

and Saint John of the Cross believed that such things should not be desired and that there was a need not to desire such stuff.

Doug50,

Reading your posts, it seems your heart is dead set against such gifts. Please correct me if I misperceive. Please provide a context in which St. John of the Cross made his comments, as all such writings are contextual in nature. I say to everyone reading this that I was lukewarm in my faith, and suitable only to be spewed out of the Lord’s mouth. What changed? Baptism in the Holy Spirit! My faith is ALIVE now. IF these gifts are not for you, and IF you seek a more intellectual and logic-based faith, by all means, do! God is that big!

But, please understand that the distance between the Alpha and Omega of faith is so much larger than the entire world, that God has made provision for ALL types of celebration, enrichment and encouragement. The gift in me has caused me to lose fear of evangelizing. I minister to souls everwhere I go, and devote more time and love to God and His children. In short, it has transformed me.

I cannnot avoid that. I embrace it.

Christ’s peace.

 

[po18guy]

Emotions are human. It is also human to equate feelings with spirituality so many seek out the emotions. It’s easier. I think that’s why so many of today’s Catholic retreats are focused upon sharing in feelings. There’s nothing wrong with this so long as you know that the emotional focus is horizonal. It’s social bonding. I have friends going to retreats which have a secretive aspect. I’ve asked them what they got out their retreat. “I can’t tell you cuz it’ll spoil the process should you go.” Not one has ever told me how their weekend deepened/expanded their knowing. What enlightenment could they express? All I get from them is how “wonderful” the retreat was. I’ve heard of people getting addicted to these emotion weekends.Some came back from an Amway convention with the same high. Since our faith is not a secrete but one shared, I assume this process is borrowed from social psy. I’ve gone to such retreats, and due to the social pressure/manipultion I nolonger go. I will go to one that has a virtical focus. If I deepened my knowing shouldn’t I want to share this faith? All this emphasis form today’s Catholics equating emotionalism with spiritualism saddens me.

In my case, the emotions are a natural result of the spiritual experience, never a goal or end in themselves.

 

[juliamajor]

i don’t know where and when you all have gone to charismatic Masses - But we don"t make a public commotion-our services are advertised and of course open to everyone and we put a notice out of what to expect.If you don’t want that sort of experience then don’t come.as for turning on the Spirit -the Spirit blows where it wills- no one can force it.Sometimes you can feel the energy flowing and other times you can’t.Spiritual Gifts- you don’t ask for them- they are either given to you or not.Stir up people’s emotions- no- folks are either moved or not.Laying of hands on the sick is very biblical and you know what when i do it all I can think about is God’s love for that person- I feel moved and honored that i can be a vehicle for Christ’s compassion-and if there’s a physical healing great- but a healing that is spiritual or emotional-as far as I’m concerned-can be far greater.Some claim healings for others through faith.I personally don’t know anyone who does that- though i know it is done…I think some people’s faith and belief in miracles can overcome common sense. Is there some silliness- i would say that any where you have human beings you can have silliness and sin and weaknesses of all kinds. But just because sits in a meditative pose doesn’t mean he isn’t distracted by something else or taking a nap or thinking about what’s for dinner. I’m not big on prophetic messages mainly because being a prophet can be a dangerous job- wouldn’t want the responsibility . I thank and praise God no matter what.i don’t know who these people were who eventually left the church but they seem rather foolish but branding all Charismatics as childish or immature in the faith i think is rather uncharitable to say the least. JPII was rather fond of the charismatics so we can’t be all bad.lol Just because we are noisy loud and joyous doesn’t mean that we haven’t experience desolation anxiety or spiritual dryness- i wouldn’t want it either.but it has happened and has made me stronger in faith-to get to Easter you got to go through Good Friday. But it ain’t fun. As far as Charismatics selfishly dragging their jazzed up ways-hahNever happens - my parish and parishes around us have MAYBE a Charismatic Mass 6 times a year on odd nights and odd times. We are no celebrities but are more like back of the bus catholics.I had a pastor who told us that Charismatic masses were not “his thing” so in obedience we folded our tent and went into the desert- is that fair? Ok so let me get to the crux of the matter- when I teach scripture do my rosary and attend adoration and go to mass (non Charismatically of course) I’m a good solid mature Catholic. but when i go Charismatic I’m immature silly, wacky and self important-is that right! Or maybe I’ve a a split personality like about 99% of charismatics! We exist in the church and most of time you don’t know it. we are your brothers and sisters in Christ and we work just as hard as you in the vineyard.

 

[angelusm]

Dear brothers and sisters in christ;

I have been asked by a member of pentecostal church why catholic church is ignoring or not giving significant attention to those of charismatic gifts of the holy spirit such as speaking with tongues , healing , professy etc. I tried to answer the question that we christians first of all should seek gifts such as the most important love as St Paul said all the laws are contained in love.
Need a full and detailed answer please.

with kind regards,
Aman:thumbsup:

Gifts that you mentioned are indeed very important for members of pentacostal communities. We are not ignoring them, but I think they should be better known and more often practised in the CC. The question that I would ask the pentacostals is: why are you ignoring the mesaage of Fatima, Lourdes, message of God’s mercy and many others?
We have to be more offensive, we are right, not protestants, and we should ask them to explain their errant beliefs.
That’s probably not the answer that you expercted, but I hope somebody will answer your question better. God bless.

 

[bernardinelee]

and Saint John of the Cross believed that such things should not be desired and that there was a need not to desire such stuff.

Our parish priest spoke to the congregation about a person’s relationship with God. It is either a vertical relationship or a horizontal relationship. Some people are called to a contemplative prayer life and a deep interior relationship with God. It is more of a direct relationship with Chist, and the person can relate more to the divinity of Christ. The person with a horizontal relationship with Jesus can relate more to His human nature. Those who are more solitudinal and experience God in a quiet personal way without much emotion would be the contemplatives. However, some people are more extroverted by nature. They connect with people more, interact with others more, and are perhaps more “feeling,” and “emotional” human beings. There are different personalities, different ways of praying to God. Yet, we worship the same Lord Jesus Christ.

As far as spirituality, there are Carmelites, Dominicans, Augustinians, Norbertines, Franciscans, Jesuits, Salesians, Redemptorists, Oblates of Mary Immaculate, etc. None of their spiritualities are identical. They all have a unique charism. Although they are diverse they have Christ Jesus in common. Just think of all kinds of tributaries running into the main stream which is Christ.

I believe the Charismatic expression of prayer is a spirituality leading to Christ as well as St. John of The Cross’ spirituality (two unique expressions of prayer), all leading to Jesus Christ.

 

[guanophore]

Originally Posted by guanophore
I hope you don’t have to leave your emotions out!

I don’t have to. They are secondary. A person can be spiritually enlightend and there response can be a simple as simple as an “ah? I got it”.
grandfather;2622293:

Emotions and feelings are good things. God made us with them. They are not secondary, but integral parts of us, parts of the whole package, and parts of what we are. If we try to stifle or deny them on purpose we will harm ourselves. If we have no emotion we are dead, but we should not want to be emotional for the sake of being emotional.

I agree with this, and I do see a lot of emotionalism for it’s own sake in the Pentecostal movement. However, it is very shallow, and should not be confused with authentic spiritual experience, which may have an emotional component, but remains salient after the mood has changed.

Emotional experience can be part of spiritual experience. When we experience God our whole beings are often engaged, including the emotions in powerful ways, but that is not the same as seeking emotional experiences or highs. It is easy to see how we get confused. If we experience God and we feel feel it in all parts of us, including the emotions, we can identify experiencing God with emotional highs and seek them. I accept it with gratitude. I did not ask for or seek this. It just happens and it is very emotional. I have no idea what benefit it is to anyone else, or that it proves or confirms anything, but it is consoling to me and seems to increase love in me.

This is one of the standards by which such experiences should be measured. If the end is love,then the means is working! Only the Spirit knows the heart,and what each one needs to get us from where we are to where we need to be.

Public prayer is good, but making a commotion on purpose seems improper. … a way to try to turn on the Spirit or attempt to stir up emotions of others on one’s own initiative will always cause problems.

I am personally offended and appalled by the “showmanship” that I see on TV often. It offends me. I think of how Jesus touched people, and did healing. He was always quiet about it, and always told the demons to be quiet. He even whispered, and instructed people not to tell.

I have seen prayers for the sick in charismatic meetings. They get very loud and emotional. Everyone lays their hands on the troubled person. People pray in tongues that no one knows what is being said, if anything more than gibberish. I have also seen people do this kind of thing for someone who is not present and claim healings for the sick person. Nothing happens. One of my best friends was virtually comatose for four years and there were pentecostal types claiming his healing for him.

I know what you mean, but I am not going to assume “nothing happens”. It is hard to hear God when you have your mouth open. It has been said that you have two ears and one mouth so you can talk twice as much as you listen. If there is a lot of loud verbalizing going on, how can anyone discern the still small voice of God? I don’t disagree with the laying on of hands, or of prayer for the sick, whether they are present, or not. But the efficacy of it is not based upon the claims or the loud prayers, but the grace of God. Jesus and the Apostles healed remotely, and I have seen that it does happen. Who is to know what goes on in the soul of a person who is in a coma?

Did God inspire all the commotion? If He did, wouldn’t there have been a miraculous healing? I have seen these people also claim specific prophetic messages about what would happen in the Church, with great confidence and emotion thanking God ahead of time and none of it happened. They eventually left the Church and continue to make the same kind of noise. They don’t lose a step or show any embarassment or acknowledgment that their prophesies or claimed miracles were fake. They keep right at it maybe thinking it will work the next time around. This is really bad. If you claim to be speaking for God, you better be speaking for God.

Indeed, this is a point well made. The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets, scripture teaches us, and gives many examples of false prophets. God will even speak through the mouth of a donkey, but each individual will be accountable for what they say.

 

[guanophore]

The 3 priests whose life in the Spirit touched me are Fr. Luke Zimmer, SSCC, Fr. John Bertolucci, and Fr. John Hampsch, CMF.

I have not heard Fr. Luke but did have the benefit of the other two, and Fr. Bertolucci several times. Would that all our priests had such zeal!

 

[guanophore]

Emotions are human. It is also human to equate feelings with spirituality so many seek out the emotions. It’s easier. I think that’s why so many of today’s Catholic retreats are focused upon sharing in feelings. There’s nothing wrong with this so long as you know that the emotional focus is horizonal. It’s social bonding.

I can’t deny that emotions are essential in human bonding. However, it sounds like you have relegated emotions to someplace the spritual is not. Yes, they are part of our human makeup, but as spiritual beings, the Spirit permeates ALL of us, body and soul. The emotions are not separated from the spiritual experience. Though they are not an end in themselves, when the spirit rushes upon a person, it is experienced emotionally as well as physically and spiritually. It goes quite beyond “social bonding”.

I have friends going to retreats which have a secretive aspect. I’ve asked them what they got out their retreat. “I can’t tell you cuz it’ll spoil the process should you go.”

This sounds very suspicious. I know some people involved in that Landmark thing that are like that. I think it is a cult.

Not one has ever told me how their weekend deepened/expanded their knowing. What enlightenment could they express? All I get from them is how “wonderful” the retreat was. I’ve heard of people getting addicted to these emotion weekends.Some came back from an Amway convention with the same high. Since our faith is not a secrete but one shared, I assume this process is borrowed from social psy. I’ve gone to such retreats, and due to the social pressure/manipultion I nolonger go. I will go to one that has a virtical focus. If I deepened my knowing shouldn’t I want to share this faith? All this emphasis form today’s Catholics equating emotionalism with spiritualism saddens me.

It is not just Catholics, and it is saddening. It is a sign that people are spiritually starving, and are craving a sincere spiritual experience.

 

[guanophore]

and Saint John of the Cross believed that such things should not be desired and that there was a need not to desire such stuff.

St. John of the Cross had a different charism, and a different spritual experience. More power to him! There is a time and a place for the dark night of the soul as well. Both experiences are authentic. However, in no case should one go seeking experiences of either kind, but to seek the Giver of the gifts. Then, whatever comes we can accept as from His hand, as being the most needful for us at the time.

 

[DebChris]

The 3 priests whose life in the Spirit touched me are Fr. Luke Zimmer, SSCC, Fr. John Bertolucci, and Fr. John Hampsch, CMF.

These priest spoke of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and shared about gifts of the Holy Spirit they were given. They were on fire for Jesus Christ and for the spreading of His Kingdom here on earth.

Fr. Luke was an evangelist. He spoke of agape love and stressed that this is what all people need to have in their hearts. Fr. Hampsch was a speaker. Interestingly enough, although he stuttered very badly, during his preaching about Jesus Christ he was able to speak clearly for all to hear and understand. He’s very knowledgeable about scripture and Roman Catholic Church theology.

Fr. John Bertolucci wrote a wonderful book, On Fire with the Spirit. He explains how he was baptized in the Holy Spirit.

A priest prayed over him: “Lord, let him be at peace. Let him relax and let go. because you want to do a marvelous thing in his life.” The more he prayed the more I relaxed, and the more I relaxed the more the Holy Spirit rushed in. Something marvelous certainly was happening to me.

Then the priest began praying in a language I thought was Hebrew. I assumed that he had learned that sacred language in the seminary. As I listened to him, an urge to pray out loud came over me. I opened my mouth and, to my complete surprise, began speaking in a new language, one I had never studied. Like Peter and Paul and other Christians throughout the centuries, I had received the gift of tongues! [p. 12]

I do believe that tongues is a gift given by the Holy Spirit. It is a mysterious gift we all wonder about. Some of us believe in it, others doubt it.

In Chicago, I went to a Jesus Day Conference. I remember “it is possible to be so filled with the Spirit as to lose sight of the Spirit” from the conference.
Receipt of the gifts of the Spirit can indeed be overwhelming. There is an emotional high. As stated in other posts, emotions are an integral part of who we are. We are not “white washed sepulchres” called to walk through life with head bowed and without awe of the wonders that God works in our lives.
When a child receives a new toy, a bicycle for instance, there is a natural exuberance that is displayed. The child wants to ride his bicycle everywhere, to show all the neighbors what he received. Sometimes for the newly initiated in the Spirit, this same thing occurs. “Wow, I had such a great weekend! I want everybody to know about it!” The child still needs to learn how to ride the bicycle. The newly baptized in the Spirit still needs to learn how to use the gifts he/she has been given. This takes time, discernment, and listening to the Holy Spirit as he works in our lives individually and collectively.
The first time I witnessed praying in tongues it was as, another posted “like a clanging gong.” The emphasis was on the gifts themselves as opposed to worship of God. It was a Pentecostal Holiness church. The friend who had brougth me did not understand why I sat at the back of the church merely observing the phenomenon. In the back of my mind, I carried the image of Jim Jones. A young boy began speaking in tongues and was immediately baptized. Where was the reason, the consent?
When I received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, it was under the umbrella of the Catholic Church. I underwent Deliverance, rolled on the floor, and saw a vision of angels touching me. When I went home, I tried recording the beautiful angelic voice that came out of me. The reality was that my natural voice remained as it has always been, completely flat. As dramatic as my experience was, I still view it as another step in my relationship with Jesus Christ that began with my Baptism in infancy.
Within the Catholic Church, the Renewal is not simply about the emotional experience. It involves a greater awareness and appreciation of the liturgy and the amazing gift that God himself has bestowed on his people through His Son. It is a greater awareness of the Holy Spirit at work in my life each and every day. I would not return any of the charismata even if I could.

 

[grandfather]

…

Then the priest began praying in a language I thought was Hebrew. I assumed that he had learned that sacred language in the seminary. As I listened to him, an urge to pray out loud came over me. I opened my mouth and, to my complete surprise, began speaking in a new language, one I had never studied. Like Peter and Paul and other Christians throughout the centuries, I had received the gift of tongues! [p. 12]

I do believe that tongues is a gift given by the Holy Spirit. It is a mysterious gift we all wonder about. Some of us believe in it, others doubt it.

Did you or anyone else present understand what was being said? At Pentecost when the apostles spoke in languages not their own, the people who spoke different languages understood what the apostles were saying. Did this happen in your expewrience, does it happen, in the situations that are so common today where people speak things in strange languages. You wrote that you did not know what the priest was saying. Did anyone? Does it matter?

 

[DebChris]

Jesus in telling us to pray, tells us to ask, but ask for what? Is it to be made prophets, or that our daily bread needs be met? “Give us this day our daily bread, and throw in the gifts of prophecy and tongues” ??

Someone wrote to me and said the apostles were charismatic. There is no doubt that they had powerful spiritual gifts. Did they get them by working themselves into emotional frenzy making a commotion and racket, raising a ruckus, carrying on with their hands waving over their heads, falling on the floor rolling around and passing out? I have been to these meetings (run by Catholics) and have good friends who think all of this is right on target. I do not disparage any spiritual gifts. Miracles are real. Should we be praying for the gift of prophecy or praying that God use us however He wills? Some people are not satisfied unless they have fireworks. While the apostles did indeed manifest spiritual power and gifts, in those days there apparently were also believers, according to Paul, who were clanging gongs, who manifested spiritual gifts and lacked the most important and only real essential one, love. I can’t say whether or not the participants in so called charismatic meetings today have love or not. God knows, not me. Nevertheless, it is undeniable that they do a lot of clanging. If we have love we will be satisfied. If we do not we won’t. We need nothing more. If God wants to give us more that is wonderful, but His love is sufficient.

“Certainly human emotion is involved in any act of love, and people respond emotionally according to their temperament. But it seems better to speak of this new faith life [following the Baptism of the Spirit] on the level of a penetrating and all-encompassing conviction which involves the whole body-person, with all his human qualities in a response of deep committment.” (Catholic Pentecostal, p.145).

Authentic prayer is still first of all seeking the will of God. We can take from His word that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on His Church is the will of God. The Holy Spirit is the key to the new faith life of the Christian community after Jesus goes to the Father. “Pentecost is not a one-day experience but a continuing reality…Only because it is enlivened by the Spirit can the Church continue to celebrate the paschal mystery of Christ in word and sacrament, making effective in each generation the fullness of redemption.” (Catholic Pentecostal).
Prayer for baptism in the Holy Spirit is a prayer in expectant faith that an individual’s or community’s baptismal promise be existentially renewed and actualized.

The Apostles began speaking in tongues after being filled with the Holy Spirit, an effective attention getter. A large number of people were then converted by the preaching of Peter as he accepted his leadership role. (Acts2)

 

[po18guy]

Dear brothers and sisters in christ;

I have been asked by a member of pentecostal church why catholic church is ignoring or not giving significant attention to those of charismatic gifts of the holy spirit such as speaking with tongues , healing , professy etc. I tried to answer the question that we christians first of all should seek gifts such as the most important love as St Paul said all the laws are contained in love.
Need a full and detailed answer please.

with kind regards,
Aman:thumbsup:

It is just that Christian faith is more than just the gifts of the Spirit, as wonderful as those gifts are. Pentacostals honor the Spirit to the detriment of the Body of Christ. Why are they “ignoring or not giving significant attention to” Christ Himself in the Blessed Sacrament? Have them read John 6 over and over until they see the light.

The Pentacostal churches have riches of the Spirit, but great poverty of the Body of Christ. Advise them they can have it ALL in the Catholic Church!

YOU have nothing to explain. THEY do.

The peace of Christ be with you.

 

[juliamajor]

I could say the same thing about the mass in layin as a kid- did I know what was being said? NO- Did it matter? NO.

 

[juliamajor]

Latin!! lol

 

[bernardinelee]

I can’t say I do understand the tongues that are being uttered, but I believe that there is something to them. Why did St. Paul’s community of believers have tongues? This was well after Pentecost. St. Paul spoke of tongues. Why wouldh’t we have them today? Isn’t each person baptized called to be an apostle of Christ? Aren’t we all called to serve Christ whatever our vocation may be, whether it is the married state, religious state, or the single state?