Charismatic Movement and Speaking in Tongues

[Sirach2]

[quote="poche, post:39]

This would fall under the category of what would be called a private revelation. What is required here is discernment. Many times what we think and wish for we get through our imaginations. Other times the devil intervenes in order to cause trouble for souls.

There is no one who can discern another’s praying in tongues to ascertain validity, unless he is capable of knowing the language. Since there are infinite numbers of language, that would be impossible. Furthermore, it is to enter into rash judgment of others, which Christ forbids us to do.

For the individual who may have his own doubts, I would add that the condition of the heart is a good sign. As St. Paul said when praying in tongues, one is edified, built up. The intention to praise God is foremost, even if what one utters is gibberish.

Look at young toddler who is unable to use speech yet. Sure, he utters gibberish, but his parent understands the communication he is making with his loving heart and simply hugs him back.

With respect to these charisms and private revelations, nobody is required to believe in them as an article of Faith.

And I submit that one ought not attempt to discern another’s gift, citing my previous comment about rash judgment. It is not one’s duty to pronounce that others may be faking the gift, but to pass over and leave it to God, the Supreme Judge of another’s heart and motive.

This is why so many of these threads close. The naysayers just cannot leave the matter to God but jump in ready to pronounce evil upon children of God who may be legitimately praying.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Personally, I thought the video above in post #12 put things in a very good perspective.

 

[Ioannes_L]

This is why so many of these threads close. The naysayers just cannot leave the matter to God but jump in ready to pronounce evil upon children of God who may be legitimately praying.

No, threads like this are closed due to members calling other members names and depreciating them.
The good discussion stop and the silly personal attacks start.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

These are good. Very informative. Thank you.

 

[Sirach2]

I have not seen any personal attacks. What I did see, however, is a handful of people who are determined to thwart a lawful, approved movement of the Church, simply because they do not understand it and will not do proper research or listen to those who speak truth to them.

You might say I took your bait with the last three videos. I was deeply offended by the second video wherein the presenter misquoted St. John of the Cross, a Doctor of the Church, out of context. This was to dissuade others under the premise that St. John would have condemned the movement.

Truth be told, I am a professed Secular Carmelite that has studied his works in community for nearly 40 years and I assure you, this video is misrepresenting his teachings to substantiate a foregone conclusion that the CCR is evil, despite being approved by the Church.

I’ll not debate this further with you; you will bear your own consequences before God for posting these harmful videos. It is not my place to chase after you, for you will not be convinced, “even if one rose from the dead.”

For the record - I am not a charismatic, but I do uphold their rightful place in the Body of Christ and will defend them to any who believe otherwise.

 

[Ioannes_L]

you will bear your own consequences before God for posting these harmful videos.

What?
Honestly, after this sentence, I’m out of this debate too…
But before going, Fr. Ripperger is a good priest who simply keep the same doctrine the Church had through the centuries, if you don’t like him and his views, that’s up to you, but don’t call his edifying videos “harmful”. They’re actually the opposite.

 

[Rob2]

It is clear, listening to the first video that the preacher had at the very best, minimal contact with the Charismatic Movement, and perhaps not that much. .

This is a video where the speakers have more contact with the Catholic Charismatic Renewal .

 

[MagdalenaRita]

you will bear your own consequences before God for posting these harmful videos

These so called, “harmful” videos are homilies from good Catholic priests.

But before going, Fr. Ripperger is a good priest who simply keep the same doctrine the Church had through the centuries, if you don’t like him and his views, that’s up to you, but don’t call his edifying videos “harmful”. They’re actually the opposite.

Yes, Father Ripperger is a very excellent priest who explains Church teaching very well and very clear. There is nothing harmful about the videos. They are very informative.

 

[Rob2]

They are very informative.

This is a very informative video .

 

[Rob2]

I’m shocked At how many Catholics believe in tongues.

I’m not shocked at how many Catholics believe in the gift of tongues .

After all it is a gift of the Holy Spirit .

This morning I used my gift of tongues during Eucharistic Adoration .

This video shows thousands of Catholics as they pray in tongues over Pope Francis.

 

[ioannes_pius]

Didn’t the “Catholic Charismatic Movement” originate from a woman outside the Church?

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I highly suggest people go back and listen to this video, by a Catholic priest in good standing with the Catholic church, who explains what the gift of speaking in tonques is. He also makes a good point in questioning as to why is the gift of tonques so popular today and why is it pretty much the only charismatic gift we have seen appear with this movement today. He also points out that the speaking in tonques would be of a language that one can understand.
I found it very informative and helpful.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

MagdalenaRita:

They are very informative.

This is a very informative video .

Thank you for posting your video as a counterpoint to the anti-charismatic videos posted upthread.

As a former Protestant, I remain extremely skeptical of things like tongues because I saw so many people pretend to have the gift and pressure others to “fake it ‘til you make it” so to speak.

Nevertheless, I will say this: speaking in tongues can be authentic because the scriptures say so. Additionally, if ever there was an example of Catholics taking the good from an outside group and bringing it in line with the truths of the Catholic faith, this is it. That people grow in faith and virtue as a result of this movement is evidence that it is authentic.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Thank you for posting your video…

So, just so people do not misunderstand this post, I did not post the video of Ralph Martin and was not commenting on that video as being informative. I instead was commenting on the videos from Sensus Fidelium, with Father Ripperger. Those I believe were very informative, (they were removed ). I highly recommend going to Sensus Fidelium and listening to them.

I, too, as a former protestant was pressured into believing I needed to speak in tonques or I was not truly a Christian and then also had that exact same experience with some Catholic Charismatics. I do believe it is a gift as explained in the Scriptures but that it was different than what is seen today. Again, the video I just posted above, explains it very well.

 

[Rob2]

So, just so people do not misunderstand this post, I did not post the video of Ralph Martin and was not commenting on that video as being informative.

Correct .

I posted the video about the Catholic Charismatic Renewal .

I posted another one earlier .

Here it is again in case you have overlooked it .

 

[mrsdizzyd]

I was thanking Rob for his video. I quoted him.

I watched your video. While there were a few interesting points two things really bother me:

1. The priest presumes to tell us an awful lot about what God can’t or won’t do. He can’t possible know the mind of God.
2. The Catholic Charismatic Renewal is approved by the church. This includes popes being prayed over by its members. His condemnation of things labeled “Charismatic” is at odds with the mind of the Church. I’m unclear as to why I should believe him over Paul VI or JPII…

Now, I’m not going to run out and join a charismatic group. I’m not drawn to that kind of spirituality, but I don’t begrudge anyone else the right to.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

Thank you for the point of correction. Clearly I meant Paul VI! I’ll edit!

By the way, I think Paul IV would be ok with the Catholic Charismatic Renewal (although I wouldn’t expect him to join it). The major problem with Spirituali Seemed to be that they were sola fide. Clearly the CCR is not. Spirituali would be closer to Pentecostals than CCR.

 

[Rob2]

Thank you for posting your video as a counterpoint to the anti-charismatic videos posted upthread.

As a former Protestant, I remain extremely skeptical of things like tongues because I saw so many people pretend to have the gift and pressure others to “fake it ‘til you make it” so to speak.

Nevertheless, I will say this: speaking in tongues can be authentic because the scriptures say so. Additionally, if ever there was an example of Catholics taking the good from an outside group and bringing it in line with the truths of the Catholic faith, this is it. That people grow in faith and virtue as a result of this movement is evidence that it is authentic.

Thanks @mrsdizzyd .

I received the gift of tongues on Holy Saturday in 1975 .

I had been praying for the gift .

It might seem amusing , but I received the gift when I was having a bath in the afternoon getting ready for the Easter Vigil .

I was going to say it’s no big deal , but that would insult the Giver of the gift .

It is good to have an extra aid in prayer .

Pope John Paul II received the gift of tongues after he had asked Fr Raniero Cantalamessa to pray over him for the gift .

At a Steubenville conference Fr. Raneiro Cantalamessa told of how Pope John Paul II emerged one day from his chapel at the Vatican, excitedly exclaiming to him that he had received the gift of tongues.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

Pope John Paul II received the gift of tongues after he had asked Fr Raniero Cantalamessa to pray over him for the gift .

At a Steubenville conference Fr. Raneiro Cantalamessa told of how Pope John Paul II emerged one day from his chapel at the Vatican, excitedly exclaiming to him that he had received the gift of tongues.

Fascinating.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I was thanking Rob for his video. I quoted him…

• The priest presumes to tell us an awful lot about what God can’t or won’t do. He can’t possible know the mind of God.
• The Catholic Charismatic Renewal is approved by the church. This includes popes being prayed over by its members. His condemnation of things labeled “Charismatic” is at odds with the mind of the Church. I’m unclear as to why I should believe him over Paul VI or JPII…

Thank you for the clarification of the post.

This might be where I leave things. Sometimes I find it best to mute threads after a while but…

I prefer to trust what a good Catholic priest thinks God can or can’t do. One if he is a good priest, he is doing his best to shepherd us and keep us on the right track and he has had more schooling in this than I and most here at CAF have had. Another reason I would listen to a good priest is because of the next point…

Yes, the Catholic Church has approved the Catholic Charismatic renewal but with caution. Cautioned at Vatican II and cautioned by Pope Benedict XVI as pointed out in this article from EWTN:

https://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/charismatic_renewal.htm